[Darkangel1846]

Ya know it all comes down to what you plan to use your 9mm for. If it's pure self Defense, packing it around in your car, carrying case, whatever. Or do you plan to shoot it as a rifle. I've seen the rifles (like the Sub 2000 or PCC) do out to 300+ yards accurately. Verses the quick SD concealed carry.
I like the rifle, even with a little Red Dot it will work at distance.

 

[Schrag4]

A lot depends on barrel length and bullet weight. In a 16 inch barrel a 115 could gain 25% in velocity whereas a 147 might not gain any increase or even lose a bit. The trick is using a bullet design that will benefit from any significant increase. A 115 gaining 300 FPS, say going from 1100 FPS to 1400 FPS sounds good but it depends on if the bullet in question will still perform at that velocity threshold.

A discussion and videos on PCC ammo selection can be found here: http://sepboard.us/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=15

1050 to 1350 with a 115gr bullet is roughly what I got shooting the same ammo out of my 3.4” handgun vs my 8.3” AR pistol. I don’t think another 8” of barrel would add enough velocity to make it worth it. Just my opinion.

 

[Com 45acp]

Just FYI, this would be a game changer.

https://gaetz.house.gov/media/hottakespress/gaetz-calls-atf-cease-plans-restricting-arm-brace-usage

 

[cowboy1964]

If it wasn't for the possibility of Biden winning in November and ordering the ATF to do to braces what they already did to bump stocks

Might happen before Biden becomes president. Who banned bump stocks? Oh yeah, Trump did.

If Biden wins, banning braces will be the least of our worries. We'll be lucky if that's all that happens.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Might happen before Biden becomes president.

Who banned bump stocks? Oh yeah, Trump did.

I don't believe there's any legislation one way of the other in regards to bumpstocks. The ATF needs to realize that they are the enforcement branch, not the legislative branch.

 

[Current Resident]

A lot depends on barrel length and bullet weight. In a 16 inch barrel a 115 could gain 25% in velocity whereas a 147 might not gain any increase or even lose a bit. The trick is using a bullet design that will benefit from any significant increase. A 115 gaining 300 FPS, say going from 1100 FPS to 1400 FPS sounds good but it depends on if the bullet in question will still perform at that velocity threshold.

A discussion and videos on PCC ammo selection can be found here: http://sepboard.us/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=15

Early this spring I loaded up some 135, 155 and 165 grain .40 to try out in my S2K and see how much giddy yap I get out of it. Hopefully this weekend I will have a play date.

 

[Current Resident]

Just FYI, this would be a game changer.
https://gaetz.house.gov/media/hottakespress/gaetz-calls-atf-cease-plans-restricting-arm-brace-usage
https://gaetz.house.gov/media/hottakespress/gaetz-calls-atf-cease-plans-restricting-arm-brace-usage

That man is a keeper

 

[Duramaxsky]

I've got a couple of Gen 2 Sub 2K's in 9mm. They use Glock 17 mags and shoot exceptionally well. Since they fold up small enough to go in a racquetball bag it provides a lot of options. For a HD tool I would prefer my PCC over one of my AR's normally. That can change and is situational, but generally speaking I prefer the PCC.



I've had a HP 4095TS in 40 S&W that I liked quite well but have been curious how it would be in a Sub 2K. How do you like yours?

I have both calibers that take g17 22 mags. They are both very good. It's nice to have a backpack rifle that takes the same mags as the pistol you are carrying. The recoil is not noticeably more than the 9. Otherwise they are much the same.

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[Deputydave]

The gain isn't drastic enough to go from a 7" barrel in my Scorpion to a 16" using 124 gr. At 1316 FPS up to 1379 FPS.

Across the board the gain is minimal for 9mm.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html



You aren't going to get a 300 FPS gain in 115gr even going from a 3" barrel to an 18" barrel.

Depends on the referenced test. Many factors go into the results and differ from chrono to chrono based on those factors. I’ve seen just over a 300 FPS gain going from a G19 to. PCC in some tests. Again, it isn’t so much the gain in velocity as the effect it has on the performance of the bullet. It could be positive or negative.

 

[CAcop]

If I lived in a free state I would go with something in the 4-8 inch barrel length with hedging towards 6-8. You gain velocity without the worries of too much velocity or reduced velocity. Short enough to conceal with a folding brace or should they ban those just using a stock.

Way back in the day we had MP5s that you could push out with the sling and be almost as accurate with the stock. And that was with irons. With a red dot it would be even easier. Its not going to be a 100+ yard weapon without a brace or stock but within extended pistol range, say 15-50 it is really going to be an improvement over a standard pistol.

It would be a good weapon for times where you want to throw one into a standard backpack in case of serious unrest. A 16incher will get you more performance but at added cost of size.

 

[arndog123]

My favorite braced pistol’s are my MPX’s. They’re just very smooth shooting with hardly any recoil coupled with a red dot makes them really easy to hit your targets.

Second choice would be my MP5’s

 

[Current Resident]

Some of you guys havw pretty cool toys

 

[TheDreadnought]

The gun club I belong too recently changed the rules to allow PCCs to be shot at most of the handgun ranges and at club supplied steel plates. Which looks like a lot of fun. I have always thought they looked like fun but never bought one because if I had to shoot at paper I might as well shoot the 5.56 AR I already have. Gun stores are picked clean right now but when that passes I am going to be in the market for a PCC.

If it wasn't for the possibility of Biden winning in November and ordering the ATF to do to braces what they already did to bump stocks I would leaning towards a braced pistol. But unfortunately I think that is a real possibility. And a 4 to 7 pound "pistol" would not be a lot of fun without a brace. So right now I am planning on a rifle style version.

What's your preference?

Love my CX4 Storm, and it will still be legal if they ban braces.

Or you could spend 2.5x as much and get a new Kriss Vector carbine.

Or there’s the longer and heavier Ruger.

If you’re going to SBR something (which I wouldn’t recommend right now) I’d get the PSA AK-V or their forthcoming MP-5.

 

[ronin.45]

I added an option in the poll for those of you that own a real SBR with all the associated paperwork.

I have a real SBR PCC and still use my 16" for 75%+ of my PCC shooting. It's a very convenient length really. It swings smoother for steel challenge, shoots flatter for 2Gun, and gives you much more leeway in hand/barricade placement on the forend. The only thing it's not as good at is being suppressed because it gets overly long.

 

[Dave Lively]

Depends on the referenced test. Many factors go into the results and differ from chrono to chrono based on those factors. I’ve seen just over a 300 FPS gain going from a G19 to. PCC in some tests. Again, it isn’t so much the gain in velocity as the effect it has on the performance of the bullet. It could be positive or negative.

While looking at different PCCs I ran across a video at

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxcFK3rcqU8&
. They tested Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST with both 124 and 147 grain bullets and in both regular and +p pressure levels. Test guns were conventional pistols with 3.5 and 4.7 inch barrels and PCCs with 12.5 and 16 inch barrels.

The 124 grain Gold Dots showed about 300 more fps going from the shortest to longest barrel and the heavy bullets showed little difference. The Gold Dots started coming apart due to the extra velocity. Like you said, sometimes faster isn't better. It looks like the best choice for PCC defense ammo is the heavy stuff. You lose the extra energy more velocity would give you but gain a bullet designed to perform well at the velocity it will achieve in both a pistol or PCC

 

[Deputydave]

While looking at different PCCs I ran across a video at

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxcFK3rcqU8&
. They tested Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST with both 124 and 147 grain bullets and in both regular and +p pressure levels. Test guns were conventional pistols with 3.5 and 4.7 inch barrels and PCCs with 12.5 and 16 inch barrels.

The 124 grain Gold Dots showed about 300 more fps going from the shortest to longest barrel and the heavy bullets showed little difference. The Gold Dots started coming apart due to the extra velocity. Like you said, sometimes faster isn't better. It looks like the best choice for PCC defense ammo is the heavy stuff. You lose the extra energy more velocity would give you but gain a bullet designed to perform well at the velocity it will achieve in both a pistol or PCC

Exactly. I have that video embedded in the link I provided in an earlier post along with some others.

That link again (which has the charts and still photos along with several videos)

http://sepboard.us/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=15


The 124+P GD for example going from a 3.5 inch pistol to a 16 inch PCC yields a 281 fps gain in velocity. That is right around a 25% increase in velocity which is substantial. The trick, as we've mention isn't just the velocity increase but having a bullet that can handle that increase and still perform. Using the 124+P GD again, it yields 15 inches of penetration and expansion to .70. I disagree with LG's assessment that it's 'beyond controlled expansion'. The +P held together and while it didn't have the 'classic' flower petal still expanded well to .70. And again, the important factors are the penetration and that it held together. This is what I generally have my Sub2K loaded with since it's my old off-duty round.

Conversely, the standard pressure GD is an example of a round that I would not use. Although it had a gain of 279 fps in this test, it only penetrated to 10 inches. Outstanding expansion put at the expense of penetration.

While there wasn't a huge increase from 12.5 inches of barrel to 16 inches, there was an increase in the 115 and 124 weights. The 147 though, as you mentioned, may very well be a good round in a shorter barreled PCC as you get slight gains but nothing crazy. In a 16 inch barrel you'll likely get comparable performance to a pistol although you'd get the expected increase in sight radius and controllability of the platform

So care needs to be taken with ammo selection.

 

[cowboy1964]

Many states don't allow a loaded rifle in vehicles but will obviously allow "pistols", so that may be a deciding factor for many people.

 

[Duramaxsky]

Many states don't allow a loaded rifle in vehicles but will obviously allow "pistols", so that may be a deciding factor for many people.

That's why I like AR pistols

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

 

[bigboredad]

I have a pic 40 and really like it but just last week I shot a friends braced pistol in 9mm and like it way more than my pcc. If I was to do it over I would a braced pistol I'm 40

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[sig357fan]

for me, a Foxtrot Mike 9 mm AR lower, 5.5" barrel with a blast can and a Law Tactical folder, fits in a back pack for easy transport.

AND, FYI.....

you can convert a pistol to a rife but you can't convert a rifle to a pistol.

so if braces go away it'll cost me a barrel and a butt stock to convert to a PCC.