For fun?

Because you can reload 9mm cheap?

Because your pistol uses the same ammo/mags?

Just because? :supergrin:

 

Please be advised that I'm certainly not an expert on .223, but this round was designed with 20" barrel in mind.
The shorter the barrel, the less velocity and more problems (generalization basing on the internet knowledge really) with the platform (assuming it's AR). So, in my case if I would consider rifle I would pick up .223 over 9mm every time. However, if we are talking short barrel and indoor ONLY - 9mm may be just enough.

 

Just because? :supergrin:

Cool guns. :thumbsup:

 

I am not a big fan of pistol caliber carbines because if you need a rifle, you should use a rifle caliber. However, the benefit is if they use the same mag as your pistol. If you happen to own a large supply of pistol ammo if does give you more punch and reach than in a pistol of the same caliber. Other than that there is not much going for it.

When is it better than an AR? Probably only when you are at a range that only allows pistol calibers.

 

Only useful as a fun gun, mandated by department/agency policy, or when there's just no way to legally own/use a carbine in an intermediate caliber.

Please be advised that I'm certainly not an expert on .223, but this round was designed with 20" barrel in mind.
The shorter the barrel, the less velocity and more problems (generalization basing on the internet knowledge really) with the platform (assuming it's AR). So, in my case if I would consider rifle I would pick up .223 over 9mm every time. However, if we are talking short barrel and indoor ONLY - 9mm may be just enough.

There's plenty of modern .223 and 5.56 ammunition out there that functions wonderfully, even from SBR platforms. Speer Gold Dot in 64 grain has been shown to expand at well past 100 yards when fired from a 10.5" SBR, and there are plenty of other barrier blind (and non-barrier blind) loads out there that offer similar performance.

 

Good option for someone that may be blast sensitive.

 

The only pistol caliber carbine I'd consider over an AR would be a .44 mag.

 

Good option for someone that may be blast sensitive.

That's a pretty valid point, actually.

 

:supergrin:

 

Nice gun faawrench. I've been debating whether to do a suppressed 9mm SBR upper, a MechTech, or just do 300 Blackout with subsonic.

I've seen a number of 9mm ARs that are NOT reliable, and only a few that are trouble free...

 

For fun and concealment....



or capacity....




Take your pick.


TGG

 

What Plank said.

The mass transition of special ops people from the MP5 to the M-4 should give you a clue.

A 9mm SMG suppressed still has a few roles over a 5.56.....but very few, and all at close range.

 

LOL, who gives a flying bit of fornication about SPECOPS transitioning from the MP5 to AR whateva?

There are a whole host of reasons a PCC is still viable for non-secret squirrel BS owners:

I) Cost of acquisition. An $800 Beretta CX4 is a better value than most every AR at that price point.
2) Cost of feeding is lower.
3) in 9mm, faster splits and an adequate killer inside of 100m.
4) Smaller for storage, throwing into a car, clearing indoors.
5) Easy to suppress
6) Pistol mag compatibility keeps things easy for training. One type works in both weapons.
7) Pistol caliber long arms have a proven fighting history, from the post-Civil War era through WW2 and beyond into the secret squirrel CQB era.
8) Can practice at covered or indoor pistol ranges in most every case, which is great when the weather sucks.

For the Average Joe the pistol caliber carbine still has a lot going for it, unless of course you just gotta look like the cool kids out there while imagining armored hordes of zombies needing to be put down.

 

5.56 AR indoors would be a loud bell ringer for anyone man, woman or child.

a PC would be a little better on the ears.

There are different circumstances for everyone though.

I still cannot believe what I saw on an episode of preppers where the guy was in a tree hut shooting a SCAR and did a mag dump next to his partner's ear, next scene is a guy saying he lost his hearing and was barfing, waiting on the ambulance to show up. He will probably have to include hearing aids in his go bag. We all have to learn in different ways I guess.

I get the drools over the CX4 Storm, if they would make a storm that would take Glock mags it would be on. Rumor has it the Glock will be making a carbine. :faint:

 

If you're going with a rifle sized weapon, get rifle sized performance.

9mm can certainly whack someone, but a year or two back, a SWAT team had an MP5 round bounce off a guy's skull when they were trying to kill him.

Much less likely to happen with 5.56 (and pretty much guaranteed not to happen at the distances involved with anything bigger).

The CX4 is about $300 overpriced. If you were going to make an effective pistol caliber carbine, it'd better be cheap and prolific like the Sten was, though with better magazines. They'll certainly get the job done if you have nothing else, but there are tons of better things out there. One of the FEW things they have going for them is indoor range compatibility in some locations.

The spec ops reference was not 'what the cool guys are using' but simply noting that they have access to any toys they want, and for multirole use, they realized a 9mm buzzgun with a typical combat range of maybe 75 yards compared to a (similar weight and not much bigger) carbine with a 300+ meter range and far better ballistics was a no brainer.

The Israelis really got that started when they pulled the Uzi from frontline service, but everyone else caught up not much later.

 

Gabe Suarez had a little article on this a few months back. I read his stuff because sometimes you find a few gems in the bluster. He pitched it as a PDW style weapon that you can conceal fairly easily. The AR-15 with it's buffer tube makes it hard to put in a normal backpack even as and SBR. I still miss out MP5s in 10mm. 99% of the time they would do fine for my line of work. With a true collapsing stock it could be carried fairly easily. The MP5K-PDW could fit in a laptop bag.

 

LOL, who gives a flying bit of fornication about SPECOPS transitioning from the MP5 to AR whateva?

There are a whole host of reasons a PCC is still viable for non-secret squirrel BS owners:

I) Cost of acquisition. An $800 Beretta CX4 is a better value than most every AR at that price point.
2) Cost of feeding is lower.
3) in 9mm, faster splits and an adequate killer inside of 100m.
4) Smaller for storage, throwing into a car, clearing indoors.
5) Easy to suppress
6) Pistol mag compatibility keeps things easy for training. One type works in both weapons.
7) Pistol caliber long arms have a proven fighting history, from the post-Civil War era through WW2 and beyond into the secret squirrel CQB era.
8) Can practice at covered or indoor pistol ranges in most every case, which is great when the weather sucks.

For the Average Joe the pistol caliber carbine still has a lot going for it, unless of course you just gotta look like the cool kids out there while imagining armored hordes of zombies needing to be put down.

Well said.

The vast majority of us shoot for fun or sport. I know that some of us are a bit over zealous about HD/SD and TACTICAL, but for 99% of uses a PCC will do fine. The odds of any of us being in a shoot out are incredibly slim(LE included). If you are one of the unlucky few who do use your weapon defensively, the overwhelming odds are that it will be pretty close range. The extra power and range is unnecessary across a bedroom. For those of us who use our guns extensively for competition or plinking, the PCC has several distinct advantages that have been stated. If those fun guns are ever called upon for defense, they will serve that purpose without skipping a beat.

 

Nice gun faawrench. I've been debating whether to do a suppressed 9mm SBR upper, a MechTech, or just do 300 Blackout with subsonic.

I've seen a number of 9mm ARs that are NOT reliable, and only a few that are trouble free...

Mine runs great! CMMG with Colt mags, it's been flawless.
But, I will admit, it is just a range toy, not a hard use weapon.

 

For lots of fun with much less muzzle blast, I guess. :dunno:

 

Only advantage I can see to a 9mm carbine is that you can shoot them on some indoor ranges that don't allow rifles.

posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.

 

I have a couple, RR AR and a Beretta Storm. I'd sell the Storm except it'll make a great platform for the grandkids to transition to CF carbine. Mine were bought for playing games. If not for the games I'd most likely never of bought them. As it is the 9mm AR has more rounds fired in it than all my other ARs together, except the .22s.

 

The only situation I can see a 9mm carbine over an AR would be in a SHTF/WROL situation, where you could collapse/fold it down and put in a backpack/bag. If it got crazy, you could pull it out in a few seconds and be ready to go with a carbine with high capacity. That is a tall order with an AR. Could be done if you you halved the upper and lower, but it would add time to getting it ready to fire. And the reason I wouldn't want to walk around with a rifle in a SHTF/WROL law situation is that it is just plain stupid. History has shown this over and over. It really is undebatable. You want to be incognito, blend in. I laugh at all these guys who think they are going to walk around in a SHTF scenario wearing camouflage and a full military loadout. If that is the case, I am pretty sure the world is over.

 

I have several pistol caliber carbines but they aren't first line defense guns. A pistol caliber is what you use if your rifle caliber is out of reach.

For a home or vehicle defense rifle I want all the bang I can get, in the smallest package available. This is a small, laser/light equipped AR.



or possibly this new shotgun.

 

I imagine a pistol caliber carbine could be fun. I imagine if one was on horseback for a few weeks a .44 carbine could be a good companion for .44 revolver. And for fun. After that not much comes to mind.

 

The "west was won" with pistol caliber carbines and buffalo rifles (as well as handguns).

Hi Point offers carbines in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45acp - all in the $300 price point range. They use the Hi Point pistol magazines. I've seen one or two reviews which were favorable.