[sunfish]

I'd like to discuss the 10mm legal question with use of force for every day carry, and protection. Although I'm new to Glock pistols, I have over 40 years of handgun experience. Carried pistols throughout my adult life. What I would like to know is the legal aspect we hear happening around the U.S. on what caliber is the correct caliber to protect yourselves with and why court prosecutors put a vengeful disdain to large calibers like the 44 mag, 10mm, 357 mag. What are everyone's opinion of this, or if you have a legal background please explain.

If you will join Texas Law Shield in HOU, then this answer would be mostly moot after regularly watching their videos that come with advice, protection (in case of having to shoot), et al. benefits. The latest video seen was about special types of ammo. Result was no fear of a great defense against a prosecutor sniffing down that trail and others. They have many more, perhaps available to non-members on line? That said, we are talking Texas, not Federal & other states.

I tend to agree with the most powerful caliber my regular range allows, so maxed out @ 10mm, 357sig, 357mag in shorter carry barrels. If there was an indoor, convenient range nearby that allowed regular practice with retiring law men favorites (re: Texas Lawman magazine), then I would want to try a 44mag or 41mag for possible carry as they preferred.

 

[Cmbttupperware]

The 10mm was designed for SD. Use proper rounds and you're GTG. Very similar to the 357 mag, and nobody asks this question about the .357...

 

[jimbojdb1]

exa

The con has nothing to do with 10mm but simply that it is a large full-size handgun. If you are in a position to use it as an EDC, ok, but many EDC folks are not. If a person is not used to lugging a large handgun with them all day, they may be in for an unpleasant surprise.

exactly!i carry a 20 with me on my little Everglades hikes..it is big..heavy..and desireable;imagine a boar would be pissed if i hit him with a 9mm

 

[powernoodle]

pros and cons

The primary con, which will prevent 99.9% of owners from carrying the Glock 20 on an ongoing basis - and I mean carrying daily for months and years - is that its as big as a toaster oven. Once the fun wears off, the lack of comfort causes almost everyone to downsize.

 

[Cmbttupperware]

The primary con, which will prevent 99.9% of owners from carrying the Glock 20 on an ongoing basis - and I mean carrying daily for months and years - is that its as big as a toaster oven. Once the fun wears off, the lack of comfort causes almost everyone to downsize.

True, but right now I am carrying my issue G21. Winter makes it easy!

 

[hairy1harry]

The only thing you SHOULD have to worry about, is whether or not your shooting was justified. Key word here, is "should". I personally wouldn't' carry one due to it's size and potential to over-penetrate (unless you're running a softish .40 type load with a HP.)

135 gr. hp [Underwood] . No over-penetration , no follow-up shots needed .

 

[powernoodle]

True, but right now I am carrying my issue G21. Winter makes it easy!

I totally get it. I have carried a 21 OWB, and still do on rare occasions. But when I put all of the data in the Powernoodle Risk/Reward Calculator and Food Processor, it tells me that I don't want to carry something that big month after month after month.

 

[Warp]

Has anyone ever been convicted of a crime only on the basis of using big boollits to shoot a bad guy?

Have you heard of Harold Fish? Look it up

 

[1L26]

I EDC a G29. I carry it everyday all day! I don't have a G20 and that extra size may be a deal breaker for EDC I just don't know. I have also carried a Colt 1911 Government model and with the right holster it's really a non-issue for me and I'm an average size guy

I carry Underwood 165 grain Gold Dot or 165 grain Double Tap Gold Dot in my G29.

 

[Dick Danger]

Marty Hayes packs a 10mm. Good enough for him, good enough for me. I don't actually carry a 10mm though. My reasons have nothing to with some ridiculous notion that it's not a proper caliber for self defense.

 

[cougar_ml]

Marty Hayes packs a 10mm. Good enough for him, good enough for me. I don't actually carry a 10mm though. My reasons have nothing to with some ridiculous notion that it's not a proper caliber for self defense.

Yeah, when I went to one of the classes at FAS the instructors talked about that a little bit (Firearms Academy of Seattle for those that don't know)

 

[Warp]

It was an issue not so much because it was 10mm but because he was using those evil man killing JHP boolits.

Ignorance is bliss ^

 

[Warp]

you refer to the Harold Fish case. this is a 1-off which was later corrected. if your attacker has a knife, you dont need to put away your 9mm to fight him with a similar sized knife. you have the right to defend yourself with superior power. you have the right to use an ar-15 against an attacker with a 9mm. when you are protecting your life there is no "fairness" in terms of arming yourself. Dont worry about the Harold Fish case, it's been well documented and that wont happen again if you're truly defending yourself. it's l better to defend yourself in court than be dead.

"later corrected" = spent years in prison, and it is entirely possible he would not have gone to prison had he been using a more standard cartridge and not 10mm. The question "has anyone ever" was asked, and that is the answer...yes, yes it has

 

[cougar_ml]

I have carried a G20.4 for the past 3 years IWB.

I don't have much concern for things like over-penetration. Reality is that such a thing happening is so extremely rare that it's just not a concern to me.

If you look at all the testing for hollowpoint bullets, they are much more likely to have issues when they are traveling too slowly than too fast. If they don't hit a minimum speed they don't expand, and act just like FMJ. The opposite is true as well, the same bullet pushed to higher speeds is more likely to over-expand, and actually penetrate less.
A lot of factory 10mm seems to use the same bullet as the .40 loading, which means that even at a little higher velocity there shouldn't be any more issue of over-penetrating than the .40.

Personally I carry Underwood 155XTP in the gun, a backup mag of either 180 or 200 XTP, and a second backup mag of 140 Xtreme penetrators (also loaded by underwood)
The extreme penetrators are the only ones I'd have any worry of penetrating too far, but that's because they were designed for maximum penetration. They also seem to do really good through barriers as well, so that's the main reason I carry them.

 

[Warp]

I have carried a G20.4 for the past 3 years IWB.

I don't have much concern for things like over-penetration. Reality is that such a thing happening is so extremely rare that it's just not a concern to me.

This is true. Extraordinarily rare. MISSED SHOTS are the concern, as virtually everybody misses, with the typical being more misses than hits. You want to limit liability to bystanders, train more so that you miss less.

 

[cougar_ml]

As others have said, the main issue with the G20 is the size and weight. This isn't the old west, or even 40 years ago where there was no choice but to carry something made entirely of metal if you wanted a handgun. This is the polymer generation. The G20 is only big and heavy when compared to it's counterparts today. Compared to something 40 years ago it's actually a decent size, relatively light for that size, and gobs of power.
With the right holster, and dressing around it, the G20 isn't all that much harder to conceal than any other full size handgun from what I've seen. Get a good holster and a very good belt. I also carry 2 magazines on the opposite hip to help balance out the weight a little bit.

It also depends a little where you live. Washington State allows open carry, so it doesn't really matter if I print or expose my firearm. I've never been asked about it or gotten funny looks while concealing it, because reality is that very few people care, and most of those could care less (from what I've seen, most people trying to spot concealed carriers are doing it as a game or exercise, and are usually carriers themselves)

 

[cougar_ml]

This is true. Extraordinarily rare. MISSED SHOTS are the concern, as virtually everybody misses, with the typical being more misses than hits. You want to limit liability to bystanders, train more so that you miss less.

In some places missed shots seem to be the norm, more than a few times I've heard of NY police missing many times more shots than they landed, from close range.
If even the police are missing more than they hit, and they have received training for this, then what hope does the common man have of landing every shot under stress?

 

[Warp]

In some places missed shots seem to be the norm, more than a few times I've heard of NY police missing many times more shots than they landed, from close range.
If even the police are missing more than they hit, and they have received training for this, then what hope does the common man have of landing every shot under stress?

Never said anything about landing "every shot".

Unfortunately, police officers on the whole aren't all that good when it comes to firearms proficiency. They also may find themselves in different scenarios than private citizens, where landing those shots can be more difficult, so that is a factor, but again, most LEO's aren't as good as the common man who is a firearm enthusiast.

 

[Tosh Lanquist]

The primary con, which will prevent 99.9% of owners from carrying the Glock 20 on an ongoing basis - and I mean carrying daily for months and years - is that its as big as a toaster oven. Once the fun wears off, the lack of comfort causes almost everyone to downsize.

As others have said, the main issue with the G20 is the size and weight. This isn't the old west, or even 40 years ago where there was no choice but to carry something made entirely of metal if you wanted a handgun. This is the polymer generation. The G20 is only big and heavy when compared to it's counterparts today. Compared to something 40 years ago it's actually a decent size, relatively light for that size, and gobs of power.
With the right holster, and dressing around it, the G20 isn't all that much harder to conceal than any other full size handgun from what I've seen. Get a good holster and a very good belt. I also carry 2 magazines on the opposite hip to help balance out the weight a little bit.

It also depends a little where you live. Washington State allows open carry, so it doesn't really matter if I print or expose my firearm. I've never been asked about it or gotten funny looks while concealing it, because reality is that very few people care, and most of those could care less (from what I've seen, most people trying to spot concealed carriers are doing it as a game or exercise, and are usually carriers themselves)

I think it largely depends on where you live. Someone living in California would have the swat team called on them for packing heat. In Idaho ? You can walk down the street with AR15's without a second look. You are very correct though. The Glock 20 is a dream to carry compared to many steel framed revolvers.

 

[Glockbrad]

IIRC in the Zimmerman trial the prosecution tried to make a big deal about him already having one in the chamber. Obviously, the prosecutors in that case were scraping because they didn’t have much edvidence of guilt.

They’re going to try and paint you as a bloodthirsty murderer. They will attempt to assasinate your character. It’s their job, and your tax dollars pay for it because they put bad guys away. Sometimes they put good guys away too.