[glock2740]

the issue has already been beaten to death here, so i'll refrain from comment. Other than to say that i - and many other consumers - do take note of retailers who treat them well. And we will spend our dollars with them. If a retailer wants to make 300% profit, sure it is their right, but it isn't doing right by their customers.

As a former owner of multiple businesses, i've found that good customer service and treating your customers right is more effective in the long run than trying to make a quick buck.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

it's been my experience that those who ***** the loudest during these panic times tend to be the ones trying to buy at retail to sell at market price. If sellers sell at market price then there's no people buying to resell at market price. If someone needs something for their actual use they'll usually pay what the market price is to use it. If everyone (vendors included) sold at market price then those who are hoarding to sell have no profit to be had. Hoarders no longer buy all of it up and eventually the market returns to normal. Instead, we force vendors to sell at retail and the resellers buy up all the inventory to resell at inflated market prices to those who will use them. This keeps the vendors out of stock and forces the end user to pay these market prices whereas if the vendor sells them at market price they generally have inventory on shelves since supply v demand is still closer to normal and things balance out sooner since most people don't see empty shelves and panic and hoard. In the end, the end user pays the same price in times like this but if we cut out the middle man then things are likely to return to normal sooner. It's complicated but if you think outside of the box it makes more sense.

I think bcm had a good idea near the beginning of the year where they sold items at market price and donated the difference to the nra to help fight for our rights. This way their profit was the same so you couldn't accuse them of gouging and the amazing thing is that people didn't buy up their inventory to resell because there was no profit to be had. If more vendors followed this example i think the market would stabilize substantially faster.

-------------------------------------------------------

 

[willy1094]

This rapid increase in prices occurs after a demand or supply shock

The term is not in widespread use in mainstream economic theory, but is sometimes used

Alternatively, it may refer to suppliers' benefiting to excess from a short-term change in the demand curve.

The only real argument against this being price gouging

distinguished by being short-term and localized, and by a restriction to essentials such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine and equipment needed to preserve life, limb and property

I wonder if one couldn't consider ammo as being essential equipment. :whistling:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging

My hope above all hopes it that most (if not all) these people praying on the situation get caught holding the bag. The ones screaming are the ones that would like to enjoy the sport but don't want to take out a loan to do so. I have my theories about what type person is defending this sort of pricing. Too many places charging normal prices (with very tight limits of as low as one per PARTY) making it work to justify the practice. All I can say is that I have my running tally. Not only LGS but private sellers also. :tongueout:

 

[D.S.Brown]

It's NOT price gouging if you decide it's at a price point you don't like, and you're not willing to pay, and DON'T buy the product.

It's NOT price gouging if you decide it's at a price point you don't like, but ARE willing to pay, and you buy the product.

Myself and another guy standing in front of boxes of 9mm ammo going for $50 for a box of 50 rounds. I willingly buy 2 boxes, and he willingly leaves the store without purchasing any of the ammunition. Both of us made choices. Please explain how either of us in this scenario were "gouged" or "ripped off."

As I've stated elsewhere I averaged a C- in my micro and macro economics classes, and I "get it."

Best,

Dave

 

[Jer]

It's NOT price gouging if you decide it's at a price point you don't like, and you're not willing to pay, and DON'T buy the product.

It's NOT price gouging if you decide it's at a price point you don't like, but ARE willing to pay, and you buy the product.

Myself and another guy standing in front of boxes of 9mm ammo going for $50 for a box of 50 rounds. I willingly buy 2 boxes, and he willingly leaves the store without purchasing any of the ammunition. Both of us made choices. Please explain how either of us in this scenario were "gouged" or "ripped off."

As I've stated elsewhere I averaged a C- in my micro and macro economics classes, and I "get it."

Best,

Dave

It amazes me how many Americans don't understand such basic concepts. Just a lot of people crying because they're entitled to low prices no matter the market or supply.

 

[willy1094]

It is a false market created by people buying up ammo to turn around and sell at what ever price they see fit. Just because you are willing to buy it at a ridiculous markup does not in turn make that ok. I guess I'm crying all the way to the bank since I'm getting all the ammo I need at the pre panic prices from people that refuse to screw others.

I guess you were ok with gas stations raising prices right after 9/11? I read a story about a guy that was under heat because he was charging a premium for gas to hurricane victims and he at least had the excuse of having to actually travel to get the gas and bring it back.

People selling the 9mm ammo for $1 a round are not buying it for anywhere near that price. The manufacturers are not raising prices to an unreasonable amount. If would buy what they needed there would be no shortage, no market. It is the false market created just to turn a profit that has normal people (not making money off of this) upset. I this was the TRUE market, NO ONE would sell for any less.

 

[MO Fugga]

None of the local Wal-Marts can keep any center fire rifle or pistol ammo in stock. They put it out at 8 am, and it's gone within minutes.

Ours doesn't even make it to the shelves. Crooked bastards. It used to, but then it stopped earlier this year.

 

[D.S.Brown]

Just because you are willing to buy it at a ridiculous markup does not in turn make that
ok.

I never said it was "ok" or the right thing to do. However the product belongs to someone else. If I really want it I pay the price being asked. If I think it's too much, I do without. I don't have a right to someone elses property at a price that I feel they should be charging.

I guess you were ok with gas stations raising prices right after 9/11? I read a story about a guy that was under heat because he was charging a premium for gas to hurricane victims and he at least had the excuse of having to actually travel to get the gas and bring it
back.

Actually I wasn't ok with that. It is my understanding that it is illegal to "profiteer" during natural disasters, such as hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, snowstorms, floodings et.al. So yes charging more for gas, water and food stuffs during natural disasters is once again illegal. A natural disaster is not constituted by your fellow citizens going on a gun and ammo buying binge in fear of government taking away said guns, and thus creating greater demand for a reduced amount of product.

People selling the 9mm ammo for $1 a round are not buying it for anywhere near that price. The manufacturers are not raising prices to an unreasonable amount. If would buy what they needed there would be no shortage, no market. It is the false market created just to turn a profit that has normal people (not making money off of this) upset. I this was the TRUE market, NO ONE would sell for any less.

I agree with your first line. My example wasn't willy nilly. That $50/per box of 50 of 9mm was straight from a national retailer that I live close to in Texas, up until recently. Strangely the MORE ammunition they get in the lower the prices get, so that as of today it is now half that amount. Huh go figure. Supply rises, demand lowers, prices drop, the market in action.

So let me ask you how much ammunition does one person "need?" Can you put a specific number on that? This "true market" nonsense is just that, nonsense. Prices rise and fall according to availability, supply lowers, demand increases, prices increase, the market in action. If you think it's a shady cabal of individuals buying up all the ammo to re-sell it at gun shows at an increased profit, then answer me this. With Walmarts immense buying power they should be able to buy up ALL of the ammo they want, that isn't allocated to military, le, and distributors, and keep their ammo shelves stocked, and raise the price as high as they want it to be. Why isn't that so.

Because there isn't enough ammo, because consumers who never thought about purchasing an AR-15 and or a Glock went on a epic buying binge that caused supplies to plummet and demand to skyrocket.

Anyway people that understand economics get it, and people that think they are "entitled" to goods at a certain price, and that there is some "allowable" level of profit for those selling goods will simply continue to refuse to get it.

In the end the market will ALWAYS be consumer driven, so buy or don't buy, but don't cry.

Best,

Dave

 

[Jer]

I never said it was "ok" or the right thing to do. However the product belongs to someone else. If I really want it I pay the price being asked. If I think it's too much, I do without. I don't have a right to someone elses property at a price that I feel they should be charging.



Actually I wasn't ok with that. It is my understanding that it is illegal to "profiteer" during natural disasters, such as hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, snowstorms, floodings et.al. So yes charging more for gas, water and food stuffs during natural disasters is once again illegal. A natural disaster is not constituted by your fellow citizens going on a gun and ammo buying binge in fear of government taking away said guns, and thus creating greater demand for a reduced amount of product.



I agree with your first line. My example wasn't willy nilly. That $50/per box of 50 of 9mm was straight from a national retailer that I live close to in Texas, up until recently. Strangely the MORE ammunition they get in the lower the prices get, so that as of today it is now half that amount. Huh go figure. Supply rises, demand lowers, prices drop, the market in action.

So let me ask you how much ammunition does one person "need?" Can you put a specific number on that? This "true market" nonsense is just that, nonsense. Prices rise and fall according to availability, supply lowers, demand increases, prices increase, the market in action. If you think it's a shady cabal of individuals buying up all the ammo to re-sell it at gun shows at an increased profit, then answer me this. With Walmarts immense buying power they should be able to buy up ALL of the ammo they want, that isn't allocated to military, le, and distributors, and keep their ammo shelves stocked, and raise the price as high as they want it to be. Why isn't that so.

Because there isn't enough ammo, because consumers who never thought about purchasing an AR-15 and or a Glock went on a epic buying binge that caused supplies to plummet and demand to skyrocket.

Anyway people that understand economics get it, and people that think they are "entitled" to goods at a certain price, and that there is some "allowable" level of profit for those selling goods will simply continue to refuse to get it.

In the end the market will ALWAYS be consumer driven, so buy or don't buy, but don't cry.

Best,

Dave

/thread

 

[willy1094]

I never said it was "ok" or the right thing to do. However the product belongs to someone else. If I really want it I pay the price being asked. If I think it's too much, I do without. I don't have a right to someone elses property at a price that I feel they should be charging.
By purchasing you ARE saying you are ok with it. You've pretty much said that yourself by saying that those who purchase justify the price.


Actually I wasn't ok with that. It is my understanding that it is illegal to "profiteer" during natural disasters, such as hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, snowstorms, floodings et.al. So yes charging more for gas, water and food stuffs during natural disasters is once again illegal. A natural disaster is not constituted by your fellow citizens going on a gun and ammo buying binge in fear of government taking away said guns, and thus creating greater demand for a reduced amount of product.
Guess you missed a portion of my previous post. I know these are two different things but ONLY in that one is considered a necessity and the other is not. I will say again that for those that have just purchased a gun for the intent of self preservation, it quickly does become a necessity. I personally felt this reelection was a national (I know, not natural) disaster.:steamed:


I agree with your first line. My example wasn't willy nilly. That $50/per box of 50 of 9mm was straight from a national retailer that I live close to in Texas, up until recently. Strangely the MORE ammunition they get in the lower the prices get, so that as of today it is now half that amount. Huh go figure. Supply rises, demand lowers, prices drop, the market in action.
I do not think there are many that do not understand supply and demand. This "market" is created by people buying ammo and true value and then turning around and (in many cases) tripling their profit. The real "problem" is two fold. People are forced to pay that triple price to have it now or wait for it to hit the shelf at REGULAR price. Then when they do see it, they purchase more than then need because the next guy may very well be the one that buys it ALL up to cause this "shortage". If people quit buying from those that are marking it up through the roof then that would shut those operations down and there would be no one clearing the shelves in an attempt to profit from this situation.
So let me ask you how much ammunition does one person "need?" Can you put a specific number on that? There is no number. It is the amount you require keep yourself shooting up to the level you feel comfortable with your shooting skills. The rest is surplus. Not really hard to understand that. It is dangerous to think of the number of people out there carrying a firearm that do not practice because they cannot resupply after they go through the last box of ammo.
This "true market" nonsense is just that, nonsense. Prices rise and fall according to availability, supply lowers, demand increases, prices increase, the market in action. If you think it's a shady cabal of individuals buying up all the ammo to re-sell it at gun shows at an increased profit, then answer me this. With Walmarts immense buying power they should be able to buy up ALL of the ammo they want, that isn't allocated to military, le, and distributors, and keep their ammo shelves stocked, and raise the price as high as they want it to be. Why isn't that so.
Are you saying that the super giant, Walmart, has less understanding supply and demand than you? Strange that their prices have not changed. Are you also saying you have never seen or even heard of the groups that go around and clear their shelves as soon as it is put out. Then you have Joe Blow that feels compelled (and rightly so) to buy everything he/she can, even though they may not necessarily want to, just because they have the opportunity. Are you really telling me that a 16ft table full of ammo at the gun show with no guns (thus I assume not a dealer) were all purchases prior to the reelection?
Because there isn't enough ammo, because consumers who never thought about purchasing an AR-15 and or a Glock went on a epic buying binge that caused supplies to plummet and demand to skyrocket.

Anyway people that understand economics get it, and people that think they are "entitled" to goods at a certain price, and that there is some "allowable" level of profit for those selling goods will simply continue to refuse to get it.
So anyone that buys ammo at NORMAL prices are in some way making a statement of entitlement? :rofl: More like they refuse the get bent over and take it. People like myself do more to help this situation get under control than anyone out there agreeing to this "market".
In the end the market will ALWAYS be consumer driven, so buy or don't buy, but don't cry.
I'll be laughing as I shoot my 9mm @ .30/round and think of you popping off off a dollar bill every time you squeeze that trigger :faint: I can only fathom that you are somehow profiting from this situation though, to have the opinion that no one has any right to be upset about not being able to find ammo at an affordable price. I hope that someone has more tact with you if you ever find yourself in a situation that is upsetting to you. But you probably go though life with nothing ever upsetting you, I assume.:upeyes:
Best,

Dave[/QUOTE]

 

[D.S.Brown]

I'll be laughing as I shoot my 9mm @ .30/round and think of you popping off off a dollar bill every time you squeeze that trigger. I can only fathom that you are somehow profiting from this situation though, to have the opinion that no one has any right to be upset about not being able to find ammo at an affordable price.

So let me follow your "logic" here. I'm squeezing off ammo at a buck per shot, yet at the same time I'm profiting from the ammo situation. What magical realm of economics does that occur in?

Let me bring you back to reality. Since December 14th 2012 I have shot a total of 300 rounds of 9mm ammunition. That is it! I got lucky and found ONE of my local Walmarts had Winchester White Box ammo at $13/box of 50, (up from it's pre/"normal" 12/14/12 price of $11/box of 50, up from its pre/"normal" 1/20/08 of $9/box of 50, up from it's previous "normal" price of $6/box of 50, yes at one time you could spend $100 - $120 for a CASE of Winchester White Box 9mm ammo). I bought 2 boxes. I bartered some gun parts friends needed for another 200 rounds of said ammo so that I could shoot in the May GSSF match. Prior to going to my friends I spent about 2 weeks going to various Walmarts looking for ammo with no luck. I had already determined that I would NOT buy ammo from the retailer that I mentioned that was selling it at $50/box of 50.

In that time I NEVER blamed anyone for selling ammo at prices the market was bearing, (that I was unwilling to pay). You see I hedged my bet a year ago in preparation for the election of purchasing a second high quality AR, you know in case we couldn't get them. That is what is called in the economics world as an opportunity cost. In hindsight I could have used the money to purchase ammo instead, but I CHOSE not to, not seeing the run on ammo coming, but again I CHOSE to. Nobody's fault but my own. In hindsight I could have sold my two AR's for about twice what I paid for them within the 1st six weeks of the national gun buying binge. By now I could have bought newer versions of said AR's with plenty of money left over for ammo to shoot them. I CHOSE not to. Not because the thought hadn't occurred to me strongly, but in the end I felt it was wiser to hold onto what I have, again opportunity cost.

Again this is ALL consumer driven sir.

Btw a little friendly advice:

1.) You can't have serious lapses of logic by stating for instance that I must be paying a dollar a round to shoot, while stating that you can only "fathom" that I must also be profiting off the situation. You see how that questions your credibility?

2.) The whole I must be "profiting from the situation to have such an opinion" is really just an ad hominim attack. You're not the first person to try it in these types of discussions, and you won't be the last. Again it takes credibility away from your "arguments" because you have no idea of how I make my livelihood, ( I can assure you it is not sales of any kind), any more than I know what you do for a living. Always, and this goes for everyone, stick to the logic points in these arguments. Don't make up or "fathom" facts that you're not 100% sure of.

Best,

Dave

 

[BigCheese03012]

My local walmart still hasn't received ammo orders. The last one was just after sandy hook.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

They don't ship to the taliban anymore.

 

[willy1094]

So let me follow your "logic" here. I'm squeezing off ammo at a buck per shot, yet at the same time I'm profiting from the ammo situation. What magical realm of economics does that occur in?

Let me bring you back to reality. Since December 14th 2012 I have shot a total of 300 rounds of 9mm ammunition. That is it! I got lucky and found ONE of my local Walmarts had Winchester White Box ammo at $13/box of 50, (up from it's pre/"normal" 12/14/12 price of $11/box of 50, up from its pre/"normal" 1/20/08 of $9/box of 50, up from it's previous "normal" price of $6/box of 50, yes at one time you could spend $100 - $120 for a CASE of Winchester White Box 9mm ammo). I bought 2 boxes. I bartered some gun parts friends needed for another 200 rounds of said ammo so that I could shoot in the May GSSF match. Prior to going to my friends I spent about 2 weeks going to various Walmarts looking for ammo with no luck. I had already determined that I would NOT buy ammo from the retailer that I mentioned that was selling it at $50/box of 50.

In that time I NEVER blamed anyone for selling ammo at prices the market was bearing, (that I was unwilling to pay). You see I hedged my bet a year ago in preparation for the election of purchasing a second high quality AR, you know in case we couldn't get them. That is what is called in the economics world as an opportunity cost. In hindsight I could have used the money to purchase ammo instead, but I CHOSE not to, not seeing the run on ammo coming, but again I CHOSE to. Nobody's fault but my own. In hindsight I could have sold my two AR's for about twice what I paid for them within the 1st six weeks of the national gun buying binge. By now I could have bought newer versions of said AR's with plenty of money left over for ammo to shoot them. I CHOSE not to. Not because the thought hadn't occurred to me strongly, but in the end I felt it was wiser to hold onto what I have, again opportunity cost.

Again this is ALL consumer driven sir.

Btw a little friendly advice:

1.) You can't have serious lapses of logic by stating for instance that I must be paying a dollar a round to shoot, while stating that you can only "fathom" that I must also be profiting off the situation. You see how that questions your credibility?

2.) The whole I must be "profiting from the situation to have such an opinion" is really just an ad hominim attack. You're not the first person to try it in these types of discussions, and you won't be the last. Again it takes credibility away from your "arguments" because you have no idea of how I make my livelihood, ( I can assure you it is not sales of any kind), any more than I know what you do for a living. Always, and this goes for everyone, stick to the logic points in these arguments. Don't make up or "fathom" facts that you're not 100% sure of.

Best,

Dave

I'm not sure what "creditability" you believe I'm trying to assert. I stated a fact that you will be popping off rounds at $1/per. I only speculated (or fathomed the possibility) that you were SOMEHOW profiting for this situation. I didn't say it was FACT but that was they only way I could understand your disdain for you fellow shooters. No one came on here and attacked you yet you felt the urge to go on attack. You want to come one here and act as though you know all there is to know about economic (your C- would say otherwise) and let others know how stupid they are for understanding the workings and the definitions of terms used within economics. Oh, and lets call people upset with this situation babies (crying) just the put a cherry on top. I have no doubt you know a lot more about it than anyone that has not studied the topic in any structured way.

MAYBE, and just MAYBE, there are plenty of people that understand that this not gouging by definition but do believe that it is a perfect term to fit their feelings for those that are clearing the shelves the manufacturer's inventory to turn around and make triple profit. It is funny that the people making this stuff don't see the change in market value. The to equate ammo going up a few dollars over the year with this is just....I'm sorry, I just don't know how you were trying to make a link to this mess. :dunno:

I'm not sure there is anything friendly about your web persona. I don't know you personally so I'll no comment.

ALL the best!

 

[Jer]

Trying to be reasonable with the unreasonable is an exercise in futility. Life isn't fair. Deal with it.

 

[D.S.Brown]

I'm not sure what "creditability" you believe I'm trying to assert. I stated a fact that you will be popping off rounds at $1/per. I only speculated (or fathomed the possibility) that you were SOMEHOW profiting for this situation. I didn't say it was FACT but that was they only way I could understand your disdain for you fellow shooters.

1.) The point I was trying to make with your "logic" is if I'm "somehow profiting" from this why would I be paying a $1/per round to shoot. If that's the case I would be losing money.

2.) You're assuming a disdain for my fellow shooters, again an ad hominim attack. I'm just pointing out the economics and how each of us has a choice of to buy or not to buy. Believe me if I had my druthers shooters would be able to buy cases of 9mm for $100 all day long, but that was 8 years ago, and I might as well be wishing for rainbows and unicorns. Prices for various reasons go up.

No one came on here and attacked you yet you felt the urge to go on attack. You want to come one here and act as though you know all there is to know about economic (your C- would say otherwise) and let others know how stupid they are for understanding the workings and the definitions of terms used within economics. Oh, and lets call people upset with this situation babies (crying) just the put a cherry on top. I have no doubt you know a lot more about it than anyone that has not studied the topic in any structured way.

I didn't attack anyone sir, but if you mean by attack, picking apart peoples illogical beliefs not based on the reality of supply and demand, that they are somehow entitled to pay a certain price, and merchants are entitled to make a certain profit, then yes I did that. Again at the end of the day it's about consumer driven supply and demand.

My mention of my grade was to emphasize that even I understand about supply and demand, and that with the buying binge that caused a spike in demand and a diminished amount of product, and an increase in prices.

If anyone was made to feel "stupid" after reading my posts, I would say that is on them, a therapist would say they are projecting onto themselves.

MAYBE, and just MAYBE, there are plenty of people that understand that this not gouging by definition but do believe that it is a perfect term to fit their FEELINGS for those that are clearing the shelves the manufacturer's inventory to turn around and make triple profit. It is funny that the people making this stuff don't see the change in market value. The to equate ammo going up a few dollars over the year with this is just....I'm sorry, I just don't know how you were trying to make a link to this mess. :dunno:

Again I would ask whose shelves are they clearing? I'll grant that the one time I saw 9mm at Walmart the price was relatively stable at $13/box. But for the last 6 months in the North Texas area their ammo shelves have been dry of any 9mm, .40, .45, and 5.56mm. And consistently when asked when more might come in they consistently didn't know, or if they did it was consistently getting in MAYBE a few boxes of each.

As far as "feelings" go, well okay you and others can be mad about the ammo situation, and try to blame it on a large group of shady profiteers. However feelings and economics rarely come together. The reality is that someone has something that you want, (bullets). Unfortunately for you there are more of you that want bullets, (demand), than there are bullets available, (supply). Thus demand outstrips supply, so the people with bullets can command a greater premium for them. It really is that simple. However you and many like you are letting emotions/feelings take over, with an unreasonable belief that those that have the bullets should sell to you at a price that you consider reasonable. They are not required to. I'm not defending this it is simple economic reality. I really do wish I could shoot my 100 rounds of 9mm a week, but presently I can't afford to because I consider the cost of bullets, where they are available to be too expensive.

I'm not sure there is anything friendly about your web persona. I don't know you personally so I'll no comment.

Actually you just did, please read your first sentence in the above quote. I'll say this that my internet persona is the same in reality. I'm not one of these internet tough guys. I talk to people here the way I would face to face. If you could "hear" everything that I wrote, you would have heard a calm clear voice, no yelling, no emotion. If we had been sitting across from each other having this discussion, everything that I wrote would have been verbalized.

Anyway I'm not going to respond to this thread anymore. Let me suggest that we agree that Walmart is presently keeping their prices reasonable in light of everything, and let's agree to disagree about the rest.

Best,

Dave

 

[Warp]

Trying to be reasonable with the unreasonable is an exercise in futility. Life isn't fair. Deal with it.

This.

Willy isn't being reasonable, and has shown he is unwilling to be.

It's very simple. Supply...and demand.

What boggles my mind is that people truly, legitimately, prefer an empty shelf with a low price tag vs a stocked shelf with a higher price tag.

I don't understand how people can be so clueless as to claim that the empty shelf is a better price. I hate to break it to you, but if there isn't anything to buy, it may as well be $1,000,000 per round, because either way you are leaving with nothing.

PS: If you want to cry and point fingers and place blame, and you want to do it to fellow firearms enthusiasts and not politicians, then point your finger at every person you see at the range, because they are destroying the commodity by firing it.

No, that doesn't make sense. But it makes more sense than most of what I've seen in this thread. :upeyes:

 

[NickC50310]

My M&P 15 has no issues with the steel case ammo, I have a spam can or two for an emergency, I have shot enough of it and it cycles and shoots pretty accurately...local Wal-Mart here rarely gets any 223 and it is gone in hours....they got one case of white box Winchester 2 weeks ago....I also believe if you have an AR that will not cycle whatever you put in it, get another AR....you never know what you may have to feed it....

I couldn't agree more. Frankly I'm not interested in any gun that won't eat any and all poop ammo I can throw at it. If in a bind you going to be selective about ammo? I don't think so.

As to that lucky gunner article- I'm calling bs. First off as others have pointed out that volume of fire is completely out of the norm for 99% of ar owners and will cause accelerated wear no matter what. Also, they aren't unbiased. Here look how bad the cheap stuff is now buy more expensive ammo so we can gouge you even more. Yeah suuurrreeee.

When I see my class instructor who is an ILEA instructor and Des Moines swat officer running tula for the range that pretty much seals it for me. A bunch of internet commandos poo pooing on steel case ammo doesn't hold a lot of water for me.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

 

[SilverCity]

Steel jacketed bullets will wear your barrel out quicker.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

SC

 

[WoodenPlank]

Steel jacketed bullets will wear your barrel out quicker.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

SC

That's already been discussed here. Again, the volume of fire plays a LOT into the damage shown there. 10,000 rounds fired 100-200 rounds at a time as fast as you can pull the trigger is nowhere near the same as 100-200 rounds in a day, and firing 2-3 shots, waiting a few seconds, then 2-3 more.

I can guarantee you that if you fired 10k rounds of Tula through a quality barrel as a more typical pace (even training, where you'll only burn 2-3 mags at a time, then take a break and evaluate), you'll see far less wear.

 

[SilverCity]

Well, it's being discussed again.

Rationalize it any way you want. I for one ain't gonna burn Tula through my BCM, DD, Colts, or Spikes and call it good.

That's what I bought an AK for...

SC

 

[WoodenPlank]

Well, it's being discussed again.

Rationalize it any way you want. I for one ain't gonna burn Tula through my BCM, DD, Colts, or Spikes and call it good.

That's what I bought an AK for...

SC

Guess what - your AK will have the same problem, and AK barrels are a little trickier to change than an AR barrel is.