Yes I do believe in it. You can’t make that stuff up!

 

Another:

View: https://youtu.be/ClJcJ8LQFbQ



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The +P+ 90 grain solid copper bullets are good for penetrating barriers. And the Phillips-head bullets seem to be designed to impact ballistic gel in an impressive manner.

But there haven't been enough street shootings yet with this type of ammo to show that it's superior to standard weight controlled expansion projectils such as the 124 grain Gold dot and the same weight HST, at both standard Plus+P velocities.

My thinking is that if you don't think you have enough power to do the job with a Glock 19 with standard or even Plus+P 9mm ammo, then maybe it's time to move up to a Glock 32 in 357 Sig.

The Hornady Critical duty Plus+P 135 grain ammo is also barrel blind but does not trade off bullet mass for velocity. And the FBI has tested this load and selected it for use as duty ammo.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/fbi-hornady-critical-duty-federal-ammo/

 

I’m thinking I’m with Borg on this one.

The shape is tuned to look impressive in gel, but that does not necessarily translate to fleash and bone. I know there was one you tube video showing the “extreme penetrator” version failing to penetrate a very small hogs corpse. I’d pay no more attention to MAC than the “Sham-Wow!” guy.

I’d also agree if you want +p+ I can’t help but think a caliber/gun combo designed to get you what you want performance wise might be a better choice.

All that said it will likely poke a hole in someone, which would likely discourage them from doing whatever they were doing prior to having a hole poked in them.

 

Ammo that cost $1 a round or more, is gimmick ammo.

You can easily find good 9MM defensive ammo in 50 round boxes, for $20 or less per 50 rounds. Buy a case, test it in your guns, carry it.

 

I'm waiting to see some credible entities using it.

 

I never understood using unregulated ammo, but to each their own.

 

I only carry rounds recommended by Dr. Roberts which are street proven and in use by LEA's'
I purchase Gold Dot or HST depending on availability when I order a few cases.

 

I could never figure out why some folks love to carry +p+ stuff. If you want a harder hitting bullet than your gun was designed for, get a bigger gun. 38 not enough, get a .357, 9MM not enough, get a 10MM (can't bring myself to mention the .40 S&W)

I reload and try to keep my gravel pit / target ammo close to the power of my carry ammo. Why practise with a pwder puff round and then load up with bejeezus-magnums for your carry stuff??

 

I wouldn't say no but generallly I dont like to depend on boutique ammo.

 

Are any of you using this as a carry load?

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle.../products/9mm-luger-plus-p-plus-90-grain-xtreme-defender?variant=18785693466681

I considered it a gimmick round until I saw this:

View: https://youtu.be/0piGeTVMZWs


A while ago I settled on the 9mm for my own reasons. I am now in search of the proper carry load. I was searching for barrier-blind loads when I came across the video from MAC.
Does anyone have evidence it is a gimmick round?
Was there a difference in poa vs poi with the light/fast round?
Commonly carry G-19.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Finding evidence of this bullets street performance want happen anytime soon since no LEA is using it. However I have seen videos where the XD bullets were used with good success to kill hogs and coyotes also leaving large wound cavities.

The XD bullet performs as good or better than HP rounds in gel and clearly better than HP ammo against barriers including heavy clothing. The Underwood 65gr XD in 357 Sig is one of my carry loads. With a velocity of 2100 fps, 680 ft/lbs of energy and 18 inches of barrier blind penetration I certainly don't see this as a gimmick round.

 

+P+ is dangerous in some guns...not all are +P rated...nevermind +P+
Not going to buy those

 

That’s where the 357 sig cartridge shines ++p++ performance out of a gun the same size as 9mm!

 

One round of Xtreme Defender in the gut would radically alter the behavior of any of us. To call that gimmicky or unproven is just hog hockey While we love to quibble over minutia, there is very little practical difference between any of the defensive cartridges. They all do more or less the same thing in ballistic gel, and presumably more or less the same thing in humans.

 

My issue is simply this; expanding bullets give the advantage that an otherwise close hit may strike an artery or other important part. Yes, that Underwood appears to be barrier blind, impressively so, but it doesn’t ever appear to get more than .355 inches wide. In that regard, is it really doing a lot better than just carrying full metal jacket? Yes, it is better, but not when you put in cost-benefit. At least, not for me. Also, my preference is to expansion with decent penetration. I’m not willing to give up the expansion, or chance of expansion, for one I know won’t expand.

 

If my only goal was to be "barrier blind" and not expand, there's a variety of FMJ loads I could use.

Personally, I prefer a balanced combination of pen/exp, and the perforation of "common" barrier materials isn't as high on my list of potential concerns as it is for some folks. Sure, I'm interested how some JHP bullets might be affected by defeating windshield and other auto glass, but not to the point that it keeps me awake at night.

Also, thinking that stretched anatomical tissue might "fracture" like gel is kinda wishful thinking.

 

For 9mm, tough to give up HST in my opinion.

For 380 now, this just may work!

 

If it was all that and a bag of chips, wouldn't some LE and/or military be using it by now?

 

Good point but if I knew of a bullet capable of penetrating level 2 body armor and was in le I would want to keep it unknown. And as far as the military there not supposed to use hp this would be ideal for extra stopping power

 

.380 magnum.

 

And as far as the military there not supposed to use hp this would be ideal for extra stopping power

The military couldn't care less about handgun ammo evidenced by the use of a 9mm ball round.


As far as body armor goes there are so many different types and brands that it's hard to say what defeats what. Best to learn the skill of groin and head shot placement if body armor use is suspected.

Lastly the XD is barrier blind and certainly superior to a FMJ round in every measure including not over penetrating.

 

The military couldn't care less about handgun ammo evidenced by the use of a 9mm ball round.
QUOTE]
That's a Geneva Convention mandate if memory serves.

 

Boutique media princess.
When agencies begin using it and have results, then it can be considered. Probably good reasons they don't.
No matter how you cut it the wheel is round, and many base structures are tried and true.

 

Boutique media princess.
When agencies begin using it and have results, then it can be considered. Probably good reasons they don't.
No matter how you cut it the wheel is round, and many base structures are tried and true.

Agencies aren't going to pay the price to use this ammo. Civilian shootings are rare and very poorly documented. You will be waiting a long time to get a data base to prove this ammo works and even then there will always be those who claim the wrong methods were used to collect the data.

 

I guess the military does use hp now.
https://loadoutroom.com/16493/u-s-army-adopts-hollow-point-ammo/

 

Then I won't tell you about the titanium rounds in use by hostage rescue

 

A lot of LEOs would have to carry these expensive XD rounds for years in order to get enough of a data base to determine their effectiveness in a variety of situations. And that's not going to happen.