Don't know about the .264 Win mag, but my granddaughter is two for two on elk with her 6.5 Creedmore.

 

Wait a few weeks, there will be a newer better round on the market with all the YouTube guys leg humping it.

Get a 30-06 or splurge on a 270 Weatherby and have fun.

 

That’s for sure about a new round just around the corner!! I certainly don’t “need” another rifle. Just kinda interested in one of these. Kinda thinking availability of ammo is going to be better on the creed side. I’ve also in the back of my mind have a rifle already picked out. I know it’s available in the 6.5, not sure if it comes in the .264. I’d have to look it up. Just very curious if anyone has both and what they have to say between the two.

 

264 Winnie is hell on throats. Great round, but it just goes through barrels pretty fast.

 

That, and brass and ammo are difficult to locate. Now, you can easily form .264 brass from 7mm Rem Mag, but not everyone reloads. For factory ammo, AmmoSeek indicates a price spread from $2.46 per round up to $5.45 per round. I sure wouldn't want to shoot a great deal of factory ammo every year.

AmmoSeek 264 Win Mag

 

The 6.5 Creedmoor isn't even in the same league as cartridges like the .300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 264 Win Mag or even the boring old .270 Winchester Other than sharing an identical bore diameter the .264 win Mag outpaces the creed moor in identical weight bullets by a good 400 FPS +/-... As do the others I mentioned.

The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed as a long range TARGET cartridge that could and does put up respectable velocity retention and wind resistance numbers due to its high ballistic coefficient--for punching paper. Back in the day when it was introduced it had a small advantage in that there were some pretty good long range bullets in .264/6.5 caliber and that wasn't necessarily true of other calibers.

However the shifting winds of marketing and sales have long since remedied that and its hard NOT to find a high BC aerodynamic bullet in just about any caliber anymore. And many calibers have significantly outpaced the Creedmoor in the long/range rifle target community especially in the 6mm/.243 bore diameters.

At average practical hunting ranges--say 400 yards and under even a .308 Winchester 150 grain load will outperform the 6.5 Creedmoor. But in truth, you could take a 140 gr .264 Win Mag load, 140 grain 7mm Mag load and a 150 grain 300 Win mag load and their performance is so close to a 130 grain .270 Winchester load that from any real PRACTICAL perspective there is no appreciable advantage to any on them! Don't take my word for it. Look at some ballistics tables and you will see you'd be arguing over fractions of an inch of wind drift and tens of ft/lbs energy differences. And the Creedmoor lags seriously in all respects--case capacity tells the story. All those belted magnum cartridges are based off the old .375 H&H case and they all will hold 70 grains +/- of powder. The Creedmoor won't hold 40 grains of powder. Even a .270 Winchester will hold 60grains of powder about the same as an -06. So in terms of pure "I wanna knock something over and have it stay down" power those cartridges are all superior.

That's not to say the Creedmoor isn't useful and can't take game but it does have some limitations AND advantages. I've killed about 6 deer with my Creedmoor all at 280 paces or less. And it did an OK job killing deer. Not a thumper like my .270 or .300 Weatherby--but with performance on par with say my .243 Win or 7-08 0r .308. Which is to say respectable. And in my case the thing I like about the Creedmoor is its very light recoiling and you can usually observe the animal as the rifle recoils which you will not be able to do with one of the belted magnums. So my body count on medium-big game is well over 100 at this point in my 40+ years of hunting. And I have a little experience in the matter. But many people have more. Is the Creedmoor an elk gun? Its an elk gun the same way a 5.56 is a deer gun. Within range and energy limitations yeah it will kill an elk. But as I often point out there's a helluva difference between a 300# cow and a 800# bull...

Now there's always some joker on the internet that will brag about dropping an elk at 700 yards with his Creedmoor. Of course he will never tell you how many he's missed or wounded... Can it be done? Sure. You can shoot polar bears with a .22LR. if you want. Should it be done?

In truth none of the belted mags are at their best with 140-150 grain mid weight bullets. Where they really come into their own is with the heavier weight bullets especially for big game at distance. So a 200 grain for the .300 Win Mag, 175 gr for the 7mm Rem Mag etc. That's where you make the most efficient use of all that powder capacity.

But between a .264 Win Mag vs a 6.5 Creedmoor its no contest. They both shoot the same size/weight bullet but the Win Mag has 40% more powder capacity and brings a ton more velocity/energy to the game. If you are shooting an elk it matters...

 

The 6.5 Creedmoor isn't even in the same league as cartridges like the .300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 264 Win Mag or even the boring old .270 Winchester Other than sharing an identical bore diameter the .264 win Mag outpaces the creed moor in identical weight bullets by a good 400 FPS +/-... As do the others I mentioned.

The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed as a long range TARGET cartridge that could and does put up respectable velocity retention and wind resistance numbers due to its high ballistic coefficient--for punching paper. Back in the day when it was introduced it had a small advantage in that there were some pretty good long range bullets in .264/6.5 caliber and that wasn't necessarily true of other calibers.

However the shifting winds of marketing and sales have long since remedied that and its hard NOT to find a high BC aerodynamic bullet in just about any caliber anymore. And many calibers have significantly outpaced the Creedmoor in the long/range rifle target community especially in the 6mm/.243 bore diameters.

At average practical hunting ranges--say 400 yards and under even a .308 Winchester 150 grain load will outperform the 6.5 Creedmoor. But in truth, you could take a 140 gr .264 Win Mag load, 140 grain 7mm Mag load and a 150 grain 300 Win mag load and their performance is so close to a 130 grain .270 Winchester load that from any real PRACTICAL perspective there is no appreciable advantage to any on them! Don't take my word for it. Look at some ballistics tables and you will see you'd be arguing over fractions of an inch of wind drift and tens of ft/lbs energy differences. And the Creedmoor lags seriously in all respects--case capacity tells the story. All those belted magnum cartridges are based off the old .375 H&H case and they all will hold 70 grains +/- of powder. The Creedmoor won't hold 40 grains of powder. Even a .270 Winchester will hold 60grains of powder about the same as an -06. So in terms of pure "I wanna knock something over and have it stay down" power those cartridges are all superior.

That's not to say the Creedmoor isn't useful and can't take game but it does have some limitations AND advantages. I've killed about 6 deer with my Creedmoor all at 280 paces or less. And it did an OK job killing deer. Not a thumper like my .270 or .300 Weatherby--but with performance on par with say my .243 Win or 7-08 0r .308. Which is to say respectable. And in my case the thing I like about the Creedmoor is its very light recoiling and you can usually observe the animal as the rifle recoils which you will not be able to do with one of the belted magnums. So my body count on medium-big game is well over 100 at this point in my 40+ years of hunting. And I have a little experience in the matter. But many people have more. Is the Creedmoor an elk gun? Its an elk gun the same way a 5.56 is a deer gun. Within range and energy limitations yeah it will kill an elk. But as I often point out there's a helluva difference between a 300# cow and a 800# bull...

Now there's always some joker on the internet that will brag about dropping an elk at 700 yards with his Creedmoor. Of course he will never tell you how many he's missed or wounded... Can it be done? Sure. You can shoot polar bears with a .22LR. if you want. Should it be done?

In truth none of the belted mags are at their best with 140-150 grain mid weight bullets. Where they really come into their own is with the heavier weight bullets especially for big game at distance. So a 200 grain for the .300 Win Mag, 175 gr for the 7mm Rem Mag etc. That's where you make the most efficient use of all that powder capacity.

But between a .264 Win Mag vs a 6.5 Creedmoor its no contest. They both shoot the same size/weight bullet but the Win Mag has 40% more powder capacity and brings a ton more velocity/energy to the game. If you are shooting an elk it matters...

FANTASIC information!! Thank you. Noted!!!! Appreciate it.

 

Considering one or the other. I own neither. I’ve shot a 6.5 creed. Zero experience with the .264WM.
This would be a down the road purchase for deer/elk and similar sized game. Yes I own larger rifles for elk. .300 WM, .270 WSM, 7mm Rem Mag.
Just kinda what a slightly smaller caliber that’s less than above calibers yet larger than my .243.
Thoughts on the positives and negatives between the two. Again, not in a rush but in my radar for next rifle.
Thanks!

That's like comparing the 257 Roberts to the 257 Weatherby or comparing the 7mm Mauser to the 7mm magnum.

The 257 weatherby is a great cartridge but it burns a lot of powder and kicks like a 7mm Magnum, which is not bad, but is more gun than what most people need for deer. The beauty of the 6.5 Creedmoor is that it kicks like a 243 but hits like a 308 and is almost identical ballistically to the 6.5 Swede which they use in scandinavian countries to hunt Moose and Elk. The other advantage to the 6.5 Creedmoor is that it's chambered in a lot of different rifles, while the 6.5 Swede is not.

All 6.5's are great long range cartridges because of the superior sectional density and ballistic coefficient of the heavy for caliber 140 grain bullets and now there's a new 6.5 cartridge developed by Hornady who first developed the Creedmoor and teh new cartridge has the perfect ratio of bore diameter to case capacity and can come very close to 264 Winchester ballistics with less powder and results in great efficiency and has less recoil and gives you longer barrel life and is the Hornady 6.5 PRC which is perfect for larger game than deer and is similar ballistically to the 7mm mag with 160 grain bulllets

 

Pretty much. I looked at the 6.5 PRC when it first came out and the conclusion I came to is its the exact same performance as a 100 year old .270 Winchester.... give or take a few insignificant windage and velocity differences. There are a tone of high BC and High SD bullets on the market these days for just about any caliber. Berger and Hornady both make exceptional hunting bullets in .277 with VLD profiles and high SD. But the PRC is the new shiny thing and if it draws more people into the sport or sells more guns so be it. But its purely a marketing/sales play.

What most people really don't get about things like BC and SD etc is it really only begins to make a difference beyond 300 yards. Inside of 300 yards where 95% of all game is shot there's no--like zero--practical advantage to high high BC bullet with a long boat-tail and several disadvantages on game.

At 300-600 yards the differences on paper can perhaps save you a point in a rifle match if you get caught in a gust and your a Master class rifleman the can hold a rifle to 2 MOA or better. But in practical utility on am game animal at 500 yards saving 2-3 inches in the wind is meaningless.

 

I wanted a “larger” caliber in the mid-range and I went 6.5CM. Lots of loadings and it’s gained staying power imo. Hits nearly as hard as .308 with better wind and elevation corrections.

It’s not the be-all, end-all but for what I wanted it for, it’ll do really well. That is to say, shooting distance and no more than medium sized game in southern plains states.

 

I'm a 257 Roberts guy,,,

 

You guys are hilarious. I've used .30/06 on animals that weighed better than a ton. If you are having issues with a 6.5 on 200 lb deer, the issue isn't the caliber.



Love that Bob!

 

Preach it Big Bird! Sadly, most are going to go with the new shiny thing when they’d be better served with old reliable.

 

To the OP, it sounds like you don’t reload. IMHO, you’ll be vastly more happy with life if you buy a decent reloading press and start burning the barrel out on one of your current rifles assuming you have a ~400 yard range available. Don’t make it too complicated, just use a collet die until the bolt is tight then full length resize. Start low on the powder charge and stay there until you are comfortable with the process. By the time you get the hang of it you’ll be sure of what you and your rifle can do and you’ll know that you and your rifle can outperform 98% of 6.5CM owners at any reasonable range.

 

Thought about reloading for years and years. Just seem to never find the time to get what I need or the knowledge to do it. Getting pretty close to retirement (two possibly three) years. Then I’ll start the process.
Yes, I have places I could shoot close to 800 yards. Possibly a bit further. Now could I shoot that far… nope. Not with my current equipment and ability.

 

Considering one or the other. I own neither. I’ve shot a 6.5 creed. Zero experience with the .264WM.
This would be a down the road purchase for deer/elk and similar sized game. Yes I own larger rifles for elk. .300 WM, .270 WSM, 7mm Rem Mag.
Just kinda what a slightly smaller caliber that’s less than above calibers yet larger than my .243.
Thoughts on the positives and negatives between the two. Again, not in a rush but in my radar for next rifle.
Thanks!

Thoughts...

I shot an Elk at 300 yards with my 6.5CM in December. It was out of necessity...I had just had Neck surgery and was still on rehab, so I used my match gun...6.5CM Gas Gun with a Comp. Doctors orders. Kid and his buddy got it in the truck, hung and then butchered it for me. Based on my experience and knowledge, the 143 ELDx did what it was supposed to do, but, I'd not push past 300 on a Bull nor past 400 on a Cow. BTW, it was my 39th Elk.

Belted mags, not a fan, lots of downsides to reloading, but if you only shoot factory ammo, eh, okay. There are a LOT of good rifles and cartridges to fill in the gap between a .243Win and your other three belted magnums, and personally, I'd look at all the factors. What rifles do you like and what are they chambered in. Rifle issues are more important to me in a hunting rifle than specific caliber.

There is a LOT of angst against the 6.5CM by folks for a lot of different reasons, most of it unfounded. I laugh when folks say it was "designed" as a long range cartridge therefore it is not a good deer cartridge. That is just ignorance. The 6.5mm bullet from .260s, 6.5 Sweedes, etc. has been a solid performer for years. The design of the cartridge yields some benefits in several areas.

But a 7mm-08, .260Rem or 6.5CM are all about the same performance level on game. On Deer, Pronghorn and Pigs, they are better than a .308. If you are looking at Elk, Bears, Moose, .308, .338 Fed or .358 Win are still .308 case based, so fit in a short action and carry more mass downrange.

If you want to look at a standard action, .25-06, .270Win, .280Rem, .280AI, .30-06, 338-06 and .35 Whelen are all based on the .30-06 case and are great choices for medium to large game depending on bullet, distance, etc.

You seem to like the speed magnums. They burn barrels out faster, cost more to feed and are more finicky in load preference. But then, most folks don't shoot as much as I do.

If I were you, I'd pick the rifle I like, then settle on a .308 or .30-06 cartridge based caliber that appeals to you. Weatherby just introduced their new rifle too.

 

In all fairness, my granddaughter’s success on elk with the Creedmore is due to her being very selective in choosing her shot. The ELDX bullets she uses disintegrate and don’t exit. IMO it’s not an appropriate choice for elk. I think any standard 6.5 with a heavy for caliber bonded bullet would do fine with broadside shots and give complete pass throughs. However, her Dad calls the shots and doesn’t want my input.

Any kid that can shoot a Creedmore can also shoot a .308. Just my opinion.

 

For what it's worth....little background and info on the 6.5

 

For what it's worth....little background and info on the 6.5

Pretty much the clickbait king, and master of nothing shooting guy.

 

I first built a long action 6.5-284 for Sniper Match's to 800 yards. I sold it and built a 264 Magnum tactical rifle. As was said above several times the 6.5CM is not in the same league with a 264 Magnum. I consider the 264 to be a great cartridge if you hand load for it. Great Bullets, and lots of horse power.
For Elk I would look at a 338 Magnum or a 300 Magnum ahead of a 264 Magnum.

As was also said above. Decide which way you plan to go, and start rounding up Brass, Bullets, Powder, and Dies. If you are a couple years out, you should be able to get everything to make it run gathered up.

I have a 6.5CM in a Nosler M48 Handgun. If I locate a 308 Winchester M48, the 6.5 will probably go down the road. The 6.5CM is ok, but I prefer a larger caliber for deer in my neck of the woods.

Bob R

 

I have a 6.5CM in a Nosler M48 Handgun. If I locate a 308 Winchester M48, the 6.5 will probably go down the road. The 6.5CM is ok, but I prefer a larger caliber for deer in my neck of the woods.

Bob R

A handgun? Usually I want to yawn and roll my eyes when I hear someone saying they bought a 6.5CM but you discovered a way to make it cool!

I’ve always thought I’d like a Striker. I shot one at 3-400 yards in 308 a few times and deer sized targets was easy.

 

I’ve never had a .264 Mag but do respect it as a classic round, part of the magnum craze of the late 50’s and 60’s that gave us the .300 and .338 Win Mags.

If I planned to use my rifle for hunting and limited sight in and practice shooting, maybe a box of shells or two a season I’d go with the .264 Mag and it would last a lifetime at that rate.

Higher volume shooting I’d choose the 6.5 Creedmore given these two choices only, but for my money I’d take the .308 in this situation over the 6.5.

 

Spoomer's videos over the past few months/years have revealed a disdain for the 6.5CM.

He is mostly a hunting guy and sometimes those guys look down on the target shooters. Many of those elite hunters feel that the Long-Distance lads are lousy hunters as they lack the ability to "hunt" and get within their definitions of proper range to take an animal. Actually, the rap they place on the LD boys applies to them even more so; they are lousy "hunters" who lack the ability to get closer like the archery lads.

Instead of that shade pointing towards the LD boys, the "hunter" group could learn a lesson about LD ballistics and cartridge design to help them in their hunting and become more accurate. A wise man in not afraid of new things, evaluate them and decide, as mentioned above.

I think many of the applications from the LD crowd are helpful and increase your skill set..............................if you have an open mind. Many do not.

I like the 6.5CM.

 

I have loaded .264 Win for two friends (both now passed) one wanted 100gr ballistic tip for deer and the other 140 partition. I told the one friend the 100g BT were not right for deer, but he insisted, the first deer he shot a little too far back he ruined the hind quarter.
The other was very satisfied.

 

.264 is going to kick more...something that used to not matter to me. But now it does.

I only hunt white tails and they're pretty small around here. So I'll leave the elk discussion to those who know about it.

 

The guys that think to much is just enough should just go ahead and get the Barrett and be done with it.

 

I posted data above about the .270 Winchester and 6.5 PRC and showed how they were for all intents and purposes ballistic twins in the 140ish grain bullet weights. The same can be said of the .264 Win Mag, and the .270 Winchester with 130-140 grain bullets. (7mm Rem mag falls into the same category too) Performance is so close its not worth discussing. The reason for this is very simple...with 130-140 grain bullets the .270 is VERY efficient in terms of velocity to powder charge weight ratio. The belted mags have such a large powder capacity that it requires more powder to catch up to the .270 winchester's performance numbers...the belted mags are simply not efficient with the mid weight bullets. This is not a new phenomenon and for many years was called an "overbore capacity" condition by people like the late PO Ackley where case capacity is good to a point and past that point becomes a detriment to efficient performance with a given bullet weight in a given bore diameter. If you take the same cartridges and increase the bullet weights to say 175 grains for the 7mm Rem Mag and maybe 160 grains for the .270 the old Winchester you'll see the .270 can't keep up.

If you consider yourself a rifleman I will tell you your knowledge base is sorely incomplete if you don't own a copy of his book "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders Vol 1 and 2 published in 1962. Once you dive into it you'll see there really ain't much that's new in the world of rifle cartridges and shooting rifles...90% of what we know and use today was quite literally worked out by gun cranks like Ackley 80 years ago... The Ackley book and Hatcher's Book of the Garand are foundational texts for any rifleman.

I've used the 7mm Rem mag some on game and used to shoot long range in New Mexico with a fellow who was fond of the 7mm rem Mag at 700-1000 yards. His barrels would go south around the 1400 round mark... I was shooting .308 Win at the time and could get 4200+ rounds out of my barrels before the throat was gone and it wouldn't hold the ten ring at distance any more. (the ten ring being about 2 moa)... I'm admittedly MUCH better across the course (200-600 yards) with a rifle than at distance but I held my own...but what most people don't get is you can burn out several barrels learning to read and dope wind at 1,000 yards and still not be great at it...forget the mirage affect and variable light conditions.

 

.264 Win mag is something only a reloader should love. Midway list almost nothing for ammo selection.
It's still the 6.5's time in the spotlight.

 

There is so much overlap in the capabilities of different cartridges for non-dangerous game as to make these debates of low value.
The fact of the matter is that the .264 Winchester Magnum was almost completely eclipsed by the 7mm Remington Magnum to where the .264 is even more of a niche piece than 10mm. More like .45 GAP.

 

If anyone wants to go deep down the hole on caliber (bullet) effectiveness then go to Rokslide and read the thread on the .223 77 grain TMK bullet at 5.56 velocities.

 

My friend gave me his .264 Win Mag on 700 ADL. I bought 100 brand new Norma Brass and fired off a few of the handloads he put together for it. With 140 gr pills I think it's delivering 1500 ft/lbs of energy out to 300 yds. It cooks for a small bore.