[Jslow]

Considering one or the other. I own neither. I’ve shot a 6.5 creed. Zero experience with the .264WM.
This would be a down the road purchase for deer/elk and similar sized game. Yes I own larger rifles for elk. .300 WM, .270 WSM, 7mm Rem Mag.
Just kinda what a slightly smaller caliber that’s less than above calibers yet larger than my .243.
Thoughts on the positives and negatives between the two. Again, not in a rush but in my radar for next rifle.
Thanks!

 

[Jonny Yuma]

Don't know about the .264 Win mag, but my granddaughter is two for two on elk with her 6.5 Creedmore.

 

[FullClip]

Wait a few weeks, there will be a newer better round on the market with all the YouTube guys leg humping it.

Get a 30-06 or splurge on a 270 Weatherby and have fun.

 

[Jslow]

Wait a few weeks, there will be a newer better round on the market with all the YouTube guys leg humping it.

Get a 30-06 or splurge on a 270 Weatherby and have fun.

That’s for sure about a new round just around the corner!! I certainly don’t “need” another rifle. Just kinda interested in one of these. Kinda thinking availability of ammo is going to be better on the creed side. I’ve also in the back of my mind have a rifle already picked out. I know it’s available in the 6.5, not sure if it comes in the .264. I’d have to look it up. Just very curious if anyone has both and what they have to say between the two.

 

[warbow150]

264 Winnie is hell on throats. Great round, but it just goes through barrels pretty fast.

 

[Big Bird]

The 6.5 Creedmoor isn't even in the same league as cartridges like the .300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 264 Win Mag or even the boring old .270 Winchester Other than sharing an identical bore diameter the .264 win Mag outpaces the creed moor in identical weight bullets by a good 400 FPS +/-... As do the others I mentioned.

The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed as a long range TARGET cartridge that could and does put up respectable velocity retention and wind resistance numbers due to its high ballistic coefficient--for punching paper. Back in the day when it was introduced it had a small advantage in that there were some pretty good long range bullets in .264/6.5 caliber and that wasn't necessarily true of other calibers.

However the shifting winds of marketing and sales have long since remedied that and its hard NOT to find a high BC aerodynamic bullet in just about any caliber anymore. And many calibers have significantly outpaced the Creedmoor in the long/range rifle target community especially in the 6mm/.243 bore diameters.

At average practical hunting ranges--say 400 yards and under even a .308 Winchester 150 grain load will outperform the 6.5 Creedmoor. But in truth, you could take a 140 gr .264 Win Mag load, 140 grain 7mm Mag load and a 150 grain 300 Win mag load and their performance is so close to a 130 grain .270 Winchester load that from any real PRACTICAL perspective there is no appreciable advantage to any on them! Don't take my word for it. Look at some ballistics tables and you will see you'd be arguing over fractions of an inch of wind drift and tens of ft/lbs energy differences. And the Creedmoor lags seriously in all respects--case capacity tells the story. All those belted magnum cartridges are based off the old .375 H&H case and they all will hold 70 grains +/- of powder. The Creedmoor won't hold 40 grains of powder. Even a .270 Winchester will hold 60grains of powder about the same as an -06. So in terms of pure "I wanna knock something over and have it stay down" power those cartridges are all superior.

That's not to say the Creedmoor isn't useful and can't take game but it does have some limitations AND advantages. I've killed about 6 deer with my Creedmoor all at 280 paces or less. And it did an OK job killing deer. Not a thumper like my .270 or .300 Weatherby--but with performance on par with say my .243 Win or 7-08 0r .308. Which is to say respectable. And in my case the thing I like about the Creedmoor is its very light recoiling and you can usually observe the animal as the rifle recoils which you will not be able to do with one of the belted magnums. So my body count on medium-big game is well over 100 at this point in my 40+ years of hunting. And I have a little experience in the matter. But many people have more. Is the Creedmoor an elk gun? Its an elk gun the same way a 5.56 is a deer gun. Within range and energy limitations yeah it will kill an elk. But as I often point out there's a helluva difference between a 300# cow and a 800# bull...

Now there's always some joker on the internet that will brag about dropping an elk at 700 yards with his Creedmoor. Of course he will never tell you how many he's missed or wounded... Can it be done? Sure. You can shoot polar bears with a .22LR. if you want. Should it be done?

In truth none of the belted mags are at their best with 140-150 grain mid weight bullets. Where they really come into their own is with the heavier weight bullets especially for big game at distance. So a 200 grain for the .300 Win Mag, 175 gr for the 7mm Rem Mag etc. That's where you make the most efficient use of all that powder capacity.

But between a .264 Win Mag vs a 6.5 Creedmoor its no contest. They both shoot the same size/weight bullet but the Win Mag has 40% more powder capacity and brings a ton more velocity/energy to the game. If you are shooting an elk it matters...

 

[Borg Warner]

Considering one or the other. I own neither. I’ve shot a 6.5 creed. Zero experience with the .264WM.
This would be a down the road purchase for deer/elk and similar sized game. Yes I own larger rifles for elk. .300 WM, .270 WSM, 7mm Rem Mag.
Just kinda what a slightly smaller caliber that’s less than above calibers yet larger than my .243.
Thoughts on the positives and negatives between the two. Again, not in a rush but in my radar for next rifle.
Thanks!

That's like comparing the 257 Roberts to the 257 Weatherby or comparing the 7mm Mauser to the 7mm magnum.

The 257 weatherby is a great cartridge but it burns a lot of powder and kicks like a 7mm Magnum, which is not bad, but is more gun than what most people need for deer. The beauty of the 6.5 Creedmoor is that it kicks like a 243 but hits like a 308 and is almost identical ballistically to the 6.5 Swede which they use in scandinavian countries to hunt Moose and Elk. The other advantage to the 6.5 Creedmoor is that it's chambered in a lot of different rifles, while the 6.5 Swede is not.

All 6.5's are great long range cartridges because of the superior sectional density and ballistic coefficient of the heavy for caliber 140 grain bullets and now there's a new 6.5 cartridge developed by Hornady who first developed the Creedmoor and teh new cartridge has the perfect ratio of bore diameter to case capacity and can come very close to 264 Winchester ballistics with less powder and results in great efficiency and has less recoil and gives you longer barrel life and is the Hornady 6.5 PRC which is perfect for larger game than deer and is similar ballistically to the 7mm mag with 160 grain bulllets

 

[GlockPride]

I wanted a “larger” caliber in the mid-range and I went 6.5CM. Lots of loadings and it’s gained staying power imo. Hits nearly as hard as .308 with better wind and elevation corrections.

It’s not the be-all, end-all but for what I wanted it for, it’ll do really well. That is to say, shooting distance and no more than medium sized game in southern plains states.

 

[Big Bird]

That's like comparing the 257 Roberts to the 257 Weatherby or comparing the 7mm Mauser to the 7mm magnum.

The 257 weatherby is a great cartridge but it burns a lot of powder and kicks like a 7mm Magnum, which is not bad, but is more gun than what most people need for deer. The beauty of the 6.5 Creedmoor is that it kicks like a 243 but hits like a 308 and is almost identical ballistically to the 6.5 Swede which they use in scandinavian countries to hunt Moose and Elk. The other advantage to the 6.5 Creedmoor is that it's chambered in a lot of different rifles, while the 6.5 Swede is not.

All 6.5's are great long range cartridges because of the superior sectional density and ballistic coefficient of the heavy for caliber 140 grain bullets and now there's a new 6.5 cartridge developed by Hornady who first developed the Creedmoor and teh new cartridge has the perfect ratio of bore diameter to case capacity and can come very close to 264 Winchester ballistics with less powder and results in great efficiency and has less recoil and gives you longer barrel life and is the Hornady 6.5 PRC which is perfect for larger game than deer and is similar ballistically to the 7mm mag with 160 grain bulllets

Pretty much. I looked at the 6.5 PRC when it first came out and the conclusion I came to is its the exact same performance as a 100 year old .270 Winchester.... give or take a few insignificant windage and velocity differences. There are a tone of high BC and High SD bullets on the market these days for just about any caliber. Berger and Hornady both make exceptional hunting bullets in .277 with VLD profiles and high SD. But the PRC is the new shiny thing and if it draws more people into the sport or sells more guns so be it. But its purely a marketing/sales play.

What most people really don't get about things like BC and SD etc is it really only begins to make a difference beyond 300 yards. Inside of 300 yards where 95% of all game is shot there's no--like zero--practical advantage to high high BC bullet with a long boat-tail and several disadvantages on game.

At 300-600 yards the differences on paper can perhaps save you a point in a rifle match if you get caught in a gust and your a Master class rifleman the can hold a rifle to 2 MOA or better. But in practical utility on am game animal at 500 yards saving 2-3 inches in the wind is meaningless.

 

[Borg Warner]

Pretty much. I looked at the 6.5 PRC when it first came out and the conclusion I came to is its the exact same performance as a 100 year old .270 Winchester.... give or take a few insignificant windage and velocity differences. There are a tone of high BC and High SD bullets on the market these days for just about any caliber. Berger and Hornady both make exceptional hunting bullets in .277 with VLD profiles and high SD. But the PRC is the new shiny thing and if it draws more people into the sport or sells more guns so be it. But its purely a marketing/sales play.

What most people really don't get about things like BC and SD etc is it really only begins to make a difference beyond 300 yards. Inside of 300 yards where 95% of all game is shot there's no--like zero--practical advantage to high high BC bullet with a long boat-tail and several disadvantages on game.

At 300-600 yards the differences on paper can perhaps save you a point in a rifle match if you get caught in a gust and your a Master class rifleman the can hold a rifle to 2 MOA or better. But in practical utility on am game animal at 500 yards saving 2-3 inches in the wind is meaningless.

I disagree that it's the exact same as the 270 because a the 140 grain 6.5 has greater sectional density and better ballistic coefficient than the same weight 277, because even while Berger and Hornady both make exceptional hunting bullets in .277 with VLD profiles and high SD, both those companies also make the same bullets in 6.5 which are even that much better due to smaller diameter relative to projectile weight.

We may be splitting hairs here but the advantages are there with equal 140 grain bullet weights. And for Elk size game if I were go up in caliber from 26 to 27, I'd rather go up one more caliber to 28 to the 280 Rem or even 7mm Mag and increase bullet weigh 20 grains more from 140 to 160.

Another thing I like about the new Hornady cartridge is that they're available In Savage rifles which are one of the most accurate out of the box non-custom rifles made today and are available with heavy barrels and their excellent Accu-stock and accu-triggers.

 

[Big Bird]

I disagree that it's the exact same as the 270 because a the 140 grain 6.5 has greater sectional density and better ballistic coefficient than the same weight 277, because even while erger and Hornady both make exceptional hunting bullets in .277 with VLD profiles and high SD, both those companies also make the same bullets in 6.5 which are even that much better due to smaller diameter relative to projectile weight.

We may be splitting hairs here but the advantages are there with equal 140 grain bullet weights. And for Elk size game if I were go up in caliber from 26 to 27, I'd rather go up one more caliber to 28 to the 280 Rem or even 7mm Mag and increase bullet weigh 20 grains more from 140 to 160.

Another thing I like about the new Hornady caartridges is that they're availble In Savage rifles which are one of the most accurate out of the box non-custom rifles made today and are avilble withheavy barrels and thye excellent Accu-stock and accu-triggers.

From the Hornady Website comparing the Hornady ELDX Precision Hunter Loads (apples to apples)

.270 Winchester 145gr Hornady ELDX BC .536. Velocity 2970. 200 yard Zero, 300 yards -6.5", 400 yards -18.8 inches, 500 yards -37.6 inches.

6.5 PRC 143gr Hornady ELDX BC .625. velocity 2960 FPS. 200 yards Zero, 300 yards -6.4 inches, 400 yards -18.2 inches, 500 yards -36.2 inches.


The actual shot to shot velocity spread will generate more difference between the two cartridges than their published ballistic differences. Its not enough to even discuss.

Sectional density on both bullets is quite good and like the BC differences the actual performance delta is going to be so small its irrelevant.

So yeah...the .270 Winchester is pretty much the same thing as a 6.5 PRC in any meaningful practical way. Either bullet will likely fully penetrate side to side on any deer and most elk. I don't know how you could really say one is better than the other when they pretty much both will make a hole all the way through an animal. I used the 143 gr ELDX in my 6.5 CM and it made two holes in all 6 deer I've shot with it so the PRC should have no problem doing so but my favorite .270 Winchester load with a 130 gr Nosler Solid Base bullet with much lower SD than the ELDX (albeit at about 150 more fps velocity) also has no problem punching a hole side to side on dozens and dozens of big game animals on three continents.

 

[Jslow]

The 6.5 Creedmoor isn't even in the same league as cartridges like the .300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 264 Win Mag or even the boring old .270 Winchester Other than sharing an identical bore diameter the .264 win Mag outpaces the creed moor in identical weight bullets by a good 400 FPS +/-... As do the others I mentioned.

The 6.5 Creedmoor was designed as a long range TARGET cartridge that could and does put up respectable velocity retention and wind resistance numbers due to its high ballistic coefficient--for punching paper. Back in the day when it was introduced it had a small advantage in that there were some pretty good long range bullets in .264/6.5 caliber and that wasn't necessarily true of other calibers.

However the shifting winds of marketing and sales have long since remedied that and its hard NOT to find a high BC aerodynamic bullet in just about any caliber anymore. And many calibers have significantly outpaced the Creedmoor in the long/range rifle target community especially in the 6mm/.243 bore diameters.

At average practical hunting ranges--say 400 yards and under even a .308 Winchester 150 grain load will outperform the 6.5 Creedmoor. But in truth, you could take a 140 gr .264 Win Mag load, 140 grain 7mm Mag load and a 150 grain 300 Win mag load and their performance is so close to a 130 grain .270 Winchester load that from any real PRACTICAL perspective there is no appreciable advantage to any on them! Don't take my word for it. Look at some ballistics tables and you will see you'd be arguing over fractions of an inch of wind drift and tens of ft/lbs energy differences. And the Creedmoor lags seriously in all respects--case capacity tells the story. All those belted magnum cartridges are based off the old .375 H&H case and they all will hold 70 grains +/- of powder. The Creedmoor won't hold 40 grains of powder. Even a .270 Winchester will hold 60grains of powder about the same as an -06. So in terms of pure "I wanna knock something over and have it stay down" power those cartridges are all superior.

That's not to say the Creedmoor isn't useful and can't take game but it does have some limitations AND advantages. I've killed about 6 deer with my Creedmoor all at 280 paces or less. And it did an OK job killing deer. Not a thumper like my .270 or .300 Weatherby--but with performance on par with say my .243 Win or 7-08 0r .308. Which is to say respectable. And in my case the thing I like about the Creedmoor is its very light recoiling and you can usually observe the animal as the rifle recoils which you will not be able to do with one of the belted magnums. So my body count on medium-big game is well over 100 at this point in my 40+ years of hunting. And I have a little experience in the matter. But many people have more. Is the Creedmoor an elk gun? Its an elk gun the same way a 5.56 is a deer gun. Within range and energy limitations yeah it will kill an elk. But as I often point out there's a helluva difference between a 300# cow and a 800# bull...

Now there's always some joker on the internet that will brag about dropping an elk at 700 yards with his Creedmoor. Of course he will never tell you how many he's missed or wounded... Can it be done? Sure. You can shoot polar bears with a .22LR. if you want. Should it be done?

In truth none of the belted mags are at their best with 140-150 grain mid weight bullets. Where they really come into their own is with the heavier weight bullets especially for big game at distance. So a 200 grain for the .300 Win Mag, 175 gr for the 7mm Rem Mag etc. That's where you make the most efficient use of all that powder capacity.

But between a .264 Win Mag vs a 6.5 Creedmoor its no contest. They both shoot the same size/weight bullet but the Win Mag has 40% more powder capacity and brings a ton more velocity/energy to the game. If you are shooting an elk it matters...

FANTASIC information!! Thank you. Noted!!!! Appreciate it.

 

[Critch]

I'm a 257 Roberts guy,,,

 

[OdinIII]

Preach it Big Bird! Sadly, most are going to go with the new shiny thing when they’d be better served with old reliable.

 

[NicholsT55]

264 Winnie is hell on throats. Great round, but it just goes through barrels pretty fast.

That, and brass and ammo are difficult to locate. Now, you can easily form .264 brass from 7mm Rem Mag, but not everyone reloads. For factory ammo, AmmoSeek indicates a price spread from $2.46 per round up to $5.45 per round. I sure wouldn't want to shoot a great deal of factory ammo every year.

AmmoSeek 264 Win Mag

 

[OdinIII]

To the OP, it sounds like you don’t reload. IMHO, you’ll be vastly more happy with life if you buy a decent reloading press and start burning the barrel out on one of your current rifles assuming you have a ~400 yard range available. Don’t make it too complicated, just use a collet die until the bolt is tight then full length resize. Start low on the powder charge and stay there until you are comfortable with the process. By the time you get the hang of it you’ll be sure of what you and your rifle can do and you’ll know that you and your rifle can outperform 98% of 6.5CM owners at any reasonable range.

 

[Jslow]

To the OP, it sounds like you don’t reload. IMHO, you’ll be vastly more happy with life if you buy a decent reloading press and start burning the barrel out on one of your current rifles assuming you have a ~400 yard range available. Don’t make it too complicated, just use a collet die until the bolt is tight then full length resize. Start low on the powder charge and stay there until you are comfortable with the process. By the time you get the hang of it you’ll be sure of what you and your rifle can do and you’ll know that you and your rifle can outperform 98% of 6.5CM owners at any reasonable range.

Thought about reloading for years and years. Just seem to never find the time to get what I need or the knowledge to do it. Getting pretty close to retirement (two possibly three) years. Then I’ll start the process.
Yes, I have places I could shoot close to 800 yards. Possibly a bit further. Now could I shoot that far… nope. Not with my current equipment and ability.

 

[MarkCO]

Considering one or the other. I own neither. I’ve shot a 6.5 creed. Zero experience with the .264WM.
This would be a down the road purchase for deer/elk and similar sized game. Yes I own larger rifles for elk. .300 WM, .270 WSM, 7mm Rem Mag.
Just kinda what a slightly smaller caliber that’s less than above calibers yet larger than my .243.
Thoughts on the positives and negatives between the two. Again, not in a rush but in my radar for next rifle.
Thanks!

Thoughts...

I shot an Elk at 300 yards with my 6.5CM in December. It was out of necessity...I had just had Neck surgery and was still on rehab, so I used my match gun...6.5CM Gas Gun with a Comp. Doctors orders. Kid and his buddy got it in the truck, hung and then butchered it for me. Based on my experience and knowledge, the 143 ELDx did what it was supposed to do, but, I'd not push past 300 on a Bull nor past 400 on a Cow. BTW, it was my 39th Elk.

Belted mags, not a fan, lots of downsides to reloading, but if you only shoot factory ammo, eh, okay. There are a LOT of good rifles and cartridges to fill in the gap between a .243Win and your other three belted magnums, and personally, I'd look at all the factors. What rifles do you like and what are they chambered in. Rifle issues are more important to me in a hunting rifle than specific caliber.

There is a LOT of angst against the 6.5CM by folks for a lot of different reasons, most of it unfounded. I laugh when folks say it was "designed" as a long range cartridge therefore it is not a good deer cartridge. That is just ignorance. The 6.5mm bullet from .260s, 6.5 Sweedes, etc. has been a solid performer for years. The design of the cartridge yields some benefits in several areas.

But a 7mm-08, .260Rem or 6.5CM are all about the same performance level on game. On Deer, Pronghorn and Pigs, they are better than a .308. If you are looking at Elk, Bears, Moose, .308, .338 Fed or .358 Win are still .308 case based, so fit in a short action and carry more mass downrange.

If you want to look at a standard action, .25-06, .270Win, .280Rem, .280AI, .30-06, 338-06 and .35 Whelen are all based on the .30-06 case and are great choices for medium to large game depending on bullet, distance, etc.

You seem to like the speed magnums. They burn barrels out faster, cost more to feed and are more finicky in load preference. But then, most folks don't shoot as much as I do.

If I were you, I'd pick the rifle I like, then settle on a .308 or .30-06 cartridge based caliber that appeals to you. Weatherby just introduced their new rifle too.

 

[OdinIII]

Thought about reloading for years and years. Just seem to never find the time to get what I need or the knowledge to do it. Getting pretty close to retirement (two possibly three) years. Then I’ll start the process.
Yes, I have places I could shoot close to 800 yards. Possibly a bit further. Now could I shoot that far… nope. Not with my current equipment and ability.

I’m no expert but if you ever want advice don’t hesitate to hit me up, I’ve loaded many tens of thousands rifle and pistol rounds and can at least get you off on the right foot. Even if you are two years out I’d go ahead and pick one bullet, powder and primer and get a few of those now if you find some for non-stupid prices. I’ve been hoping to stumble on some H1000 for a 300 WinMag for a few years and still don’t have any.

You’d probably be surprised at what you could do at 800. Reasonable groups aren’t actually that hard with good wind and visibility (mirage). Bad wind and visibility can make it almost impossible.

To your original question. I’d get a .270 Win, especially if you are looking at something like a Tikka that only has one action length. It’s as close to a perfect deer cartridge as there will ever be.

 

[MarkCO]

Now there's always some joker on the internet that will brag about dropping an elk at 700 yards with his Creedmoor. Of course he will never tell you how many he's missed or wounded... Can it be done? Sure. You can shoot polar bears with a .22LR. if you want. Should it be done?

I'd call the 6.5CM a marginal Elk caliber. If held to closer ranges with the right bullets and excellent marksmanship, it will be fine. I just want more power on an Elk. They are tough. I've tracked wounded Elk shot by others for close to 100 miles over my time hunting. Most were .270Win or smaller calibers shot at Elk too far, the rest were just really bad shots and maybe one just bad luck.