[billorights]

. Six o'clock. 6 o'clock. VI Ore.

 

[Schrag4]

Center hold is the only one that makes any sense. With the other two, you are doing guess work to approximate where point of impact is vs point of aim. With center hold, you know, it’s at the top of the front sight. I never understood why anyone would set up their sights for anything different.

 

[rlewpolar]

I carry a Glock so I gotta hold high right!

That’s pretty funny [emoji23]. A Glock inside joke


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[cciman]

Depends on the sight dimensions that were put on a specific gun - not what you assume it to be, like to use, or what some one else tells or taught you is the correct picture. Gun does not care what your opinion is.

Test it out on bench rest to see which sight picture is giving you the best POI relative to POA. That is the one to use.

 

[FoatieFiveACP]

Depends on the sight dimensions that were put on a specific gun - not what you assume it to be, like to use, or what some one else tells or taught you is the correct picture. Gun does not care what your opinion is.

Test it out on bench rest to see which sight picture is giving you the best POI relative to POA. That is the one to use.

That is my viewpoint, as well. Find out where your particular gun shoots, relative to the sight picture (while looking for consistency in location of hits), then use the sight picture that works for the combination of you and that particular gun.

Nobody can tell you which sight picture that is, and as mentioned, the gun does not care what anyone's opinion is.

You have to get to know your gun. When you know your gun, you have almost become one with it, and you will know where every shot will hit, at the instant you go past the break on your trigger. The same concept works in archery (and slingshots...and anything that shoots).

 

[Roland Atwater]

You are going about it the wrong way, pick what hold you like the best and then change the gun/sights to match .

 

[SargeMO]

What is the sight picture supposed to be ? I hear POA/ POI at 25m as a factory setting. But with which sight picture?

Based on 6.1 rear sight.
View attachment 1032186

I set mine up exactly as illustrated above, at 50 yards. Using that zero and a careful hold, you can hit damn near anything you want out to 75 yards or so. Pistols shoot a lot ‘flatter’ than many people think and the trajectory of even the slower rounds, like the .45 ACP, can be optimized by zeroing at the longer distance.

Read this when you get a chance.

The Importance of ‘Zero’ | The Sixgun Journal

 

[SargeMO]

That is my viewpoint, as well. Find out where your particular gun shoots, relative to the sight picture (while looking for consistency in location of hits), then use the sight picture that works for the combination of you and that particular gun.

Nobody can tell you which sight picture that is, and as mentioned, the gun does not care what anyone's opinion is.

You have to get to know your gun. When you know your gun, you have almost become one with it, and you will know where every shot will hit, at the instant you go past the break on your trigger. The same concept works in archery (and slingshots...and anything that shoots).

100% correct

 

[MajorD]

I much prefer center hold for a defensive pistol.
combat hold only works if you have a dot on your front sight which most of mine do not. And agree it covers up too much target area and is not as precise ( you could fairly debate defensive shooting doesn’t require a precise hold)
I do use a 6 O’clock when shooting bullseye competition but no where else.
my personal opinion is if you are not a.ready wedded to a particular hold try all of them and see what works best for you.
if you already prefer a certain hold, get Sights that allow you to continue the same hold.
I want all my pistols to give me that precise center hold, and adjust or swap sights to get it there.

 

[cciman]

The hardware determines the sight picture.

If you prefer to use a different sight picture, you have to do the math and source the sights to achieve your preferred sight picture- otherwise you are stuck with what the hardware dictates.

 

[The Hawk]

Center hold works for me. Been doing that for 40+ years. So far, so good. Your mileage may vary.

 

[warbow150]

If you prefer to use a different sight picture, you have to do the math and source the sights to achieve your preferred sight picture-

Luckily that’s very simple to do. Changing out sights to get the one you want is a 10-15 minute deal, even faster on pistols like Glocks if you have access to a sight pusher. In this day and age there’s no reason one has to live with a sight picture that’s not POA=POI sight picture of your choice.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I see what I need to see.

 

[cciman]

Luckily that’s very simple to do. Changing out sights to get the one you want is a 10-15 minute deal, even faster on pistols like Glocks if you have access to a sight pusher. In this day and age there’s no reason one has to live with a sight picture that’s not POA=POI sight picture of your choice.

Yes explain that to the others. Help them with the math. Hope it is easy to find the correct sight heights, to fit the sight picture of your choice.

 

[warbow150]

Yes explain that to the others. Help them with the math. Hope it is easy to find the correct sight heights, to fit the sight picture of your choice.

No need to over think it. Math is weird and scary.
1. Call Ameriglo, Trijicon, Tru-Glo, etc.
2. Tell them what gun you have and what sight picture you’re looking for.
3. They’ll recommend a set.
4. Put it on the gun.
5. Shoot it.
6. Adjust front post if/as needed. If you’re shooting low, buy a lower post. If you’re shooting high, try a taller one.

Chances are whatever set you get will be indexed for center or combat. A minor adjustment will probably be all that’s needed, if any at all.

 

[SargeMO]

I was the chief firearms training officer for a couple of agencies between 1991-2016. When any new issue firearms arrived I took each one to the range, checked their POA/POI divergence and corrected them as necessary.

My procedure for factory night sighted Glocks was to staple a yellow Post It note in the center of B27's head and fire five carefully aimed shots, centering the bottom of the Post It on the top edge of the front sight. I ignored the dots and used the sight picture shown in my earlier post to this thread. Distance was 25 yards

What I found was 40 caliber Glocks would always put the group in the top half of the Post It to about an inch above it, using 180 grain duty ammo such as HST or Ranger T. Windage was usually perfect and I only recall two pistols that required minimal drifting of the rear sight.

The salient point here is Glock does an excellent job of regulating their factory installed night sights.

A pistol is either zeroed or it is not. You can either shoot well enough to establish that, or you cannot. But until zero is established, using ammunition of one specific bullet weight, trusting your shot placement to random internt recommendations is a recipe for failure

 

[hpclayto]

I’ll take over thinking things for $400 Alex.

 

[Hoss]

Your eye can only focus on one thing at a time. The front sight is the most important thing.

The hardware determines the sight picture.
If you prefer to use a different sight picture, you have to do the math and source the sights to achieve your preferred sight picture- otherwise you are stuck with what the hardware dictates
Depends on the sight dimensions that were put on a specific gun - not what you assume it to be, like to use, or what some one else tells or taught you is the correct picture. Gun does not care what your opinion is.
Test it out on bench rest to see which sight picture is giving you the best POI relative to POA. That is the one to use.
Yes explain that to the others. Help them with the math. Hope it is easy to find the correct sight heights, to fit the sight picture of your choice.

This to me is it, it works for me and is obvious to anyone shooting more than one gun (sight system)

 

[cciman]

I was the chief firearms training officer for a couple of agencies between 1991-2016. When any new issue firearms arrived I took each one to the range, checked their POA/POI divergence and corrected them as necessary.

My procedure for factory night sighted Glocks was to staple a yellow Post It note in the center of B27's head and fire five carefully aimed shots, centering the bottom of the Post It on the top edge of the front sight. I ignored the dots and used the sight picture shown in my earlier post to this thread. Distance was 25 yards

What I found was 40 caliber Glocks would always put the group in the top half of the Post It to about an inch above it, using 180 grain duty ammo such as HST or Ranger T. Windage was usually perfect and I only recall two pistols that required minimal drifting of the rear sight.

The salient point here is Glock does an excellent job of regulating their factory installed night sights.

A pistol is either zeroed or it is not. You can either shoot well enough to establish that, or you cannot. But until zero is established, using ammunition of one specific bullet weight, trusting your shot placement to random internt recommendations is a recipe for failure

You seem to be completely off the point.
"Zero" and sight picture are 2 different concepts on "accuracy". A gun can be perfectly zeroed, but if using the wrong sight picture (determined by the sight heights, not the user), and testing properly, the POI will off elevation.

All this talk about "sight picture" may not even be real world relevant, because at close distance (pistol engagement distance) combat or center or 12 oclock doesn't really make a difference if making multiple holes in center mass. Add panic shooting under stress, and the POI group becomes a 12" circle even at close combat distance.

Plus, most shooters can't properly use the sights to worry about the difference in "sight picture". Is it the gun or the shooter that is the problem?
So sight picture effect is only relevant when shooting off a rest at the range under ideal conditions.

 

[Masato]

You seem to be completely off the point.
"Zero" and sight picture are 2 different concepts on "accuracy". A gun can be perfectly zeroed, but if using the wrong sight picture (determined by the sight heights, not the user), and testing properly, the POI will off elevation.

All this talk about "sight picture" may not even be real world relevant, because at close distance (pistol engagement distance) combat or center or 12 oclock doesn't really make a difference if making multiple holes in center mass. Add panic shooting under stress, and the POI group becomes a 12" circle even at close combat distance.

Plus, most shooters can't properly use the sights to worry about the difference in "sight picture". Is it the gun or the shooter that is the problem?
So sight picture effect is only relevant when shooting off a rest at the range under ideal conditions.

Thanks, once I have improved grip, trigger pull, stance, draw etc... I would only be off by inch or two vertical - if aiming center mass, hopefully this will not be issue.