[vindibona1]

I've got a 43x and I recognize it's not a competition gun. I selected it as a compromise between concealed carry and having a little fun at the range with some tactical training thrown in. I've replaced the sights and currently have Johnny Glock's $22 trigger in there which I like a lot. I have two connectors that work very well with that trigger. The OEM trigger, with 4.5 pound striker spring has a trigger pull right at 4 pounds. I also came into posession of a Ghost Pro connector and with Johnny's trigger functions wonderfully but pulls the trigger pull down to 3.5 pounds, or a bit less. What's disconcerting about this trigger with the Ghost Pro connector is that because the connector itself doesn't have the bump/wall and the trigger itself has eliminated so much pre-travel, that it just pulls through smoothly and releases- almost effortlessly. With this setup I'm not aware of the impending break until it breaks. But the pull is so short that it feels even lighter. Perhaps a better way to describe it is as if by the time I think I'm at the wall I'm already through it and it goes bang.

I have options to make the pull heavier. I just wanted a general consensus on how light is too light for carry? More simply put, is 3.5 pounds too light?

 

[9jeeps]

Yep! I don't use trigger guards and like a minimum of 5.5 pounds. ( general pull for Glocks) Or more.... Remember in a crucial situation the adrenelin dump is going to be a factor on the trigger finger. With dire consequences if you have a hair trigger!

 

[Pistolay]

I prefer a trigger pull over 5 pounds myself, but it's one of those things that you have to decide for yourself.

 

[vindibona1]

I prefer a trigger pull over 5 pounds myself, but it's one of those things that you have to decide for yourself.

That's the thing. I've never given it much thought before. My 1911 which I never carried is at 3.5 pounds. My PPKs in single action is at 4.5 pounds. The double action first shot was well over 8 pounds, so I never really shot it much with the double action pull. WWII CZ 24 .380 (original and unmodified) has a ridiculous trigger pull of 2.5 pounds. I had a Smith 586 which had ridiculously low action for being a DA. What I'm saying I've always shot with light triggers and don't know any different, but have been blessed never having had to point a gun at someone with adrenaline rushing through me.

I'll put some rounds through it on Wednesday and possibly be able to test the connectors back-to-back if they'll let me operate on my gun at the range.

 

[Borg Warner]

I've got a 43x and I recognize it's not a competition gun. I selected it as a compromise between concealed carry and having a little fun at the range with some tactical training thrown in. I've replaced the sights and currently have Johnny Glock's $22 trigger in there which I like a lot. I have two connectors that work very well with that trigger. The OEM trigger, with 4.5 pound striker spring has a trigger pull right at 4 pounds. I also came into posession of a Ghost Pro connector and with Johnny's trigger functions wonderfully but pulls the trigger pull down to 3.5 pounds, or a bit less. What's disconcerting about this trigger with the Ghost Pro connector is that because the connector itself doesn't have the bump/wall and the trigger itself has eliminated so much pre-travel, that it just pulls through smoothly and releases- almost effortlessly. With this setup I'm not aware of the impending break until it breaks. But the pull is so short that it feels even lighter. Perhaps a better way to describe it is as if by the time I think I'm at the wall I'm already through it and it goes bang.

I have options to make the pull heavier. I just wanted a general consensus on how light is too light for carry? More simply put, is 3.5 pounds too light?

3.5 pounds is fine if you're talking about a 1911 that can be carried cocked and locked. But with a striker fired gun, it's like carrying a 1911 cocked and with the safety off. Yes, I know that Glock has what are called "passive safeties", but so does a 1911.

The reason DA revolvers are safe to carry with a round in all 5 or 5 chambers and no safety is that the long trigger pull is what makes the gun safe but at the same time does not make the gun more difficult to shoot as long as you take the time to practice with it.

And it's the same thing with the Glock. If you practice with the gun and pay more attention to hitting your target and gradually increasing your speed rather than focusing on how the trigger feels "wrong" to you, there is no need to mess with the trigger and make the gun less safe to carry and potentially make the gun less reliable.

 

[vindibona1]

3.5 pounds is fine if you're talking about a 1911 that can be carried cocked and locked. But with a striker fired gun, it's like carrying a 1911 cocked and with the safety off. Yes, I know that Glock has what are called "passive safeties", but so does a 1911.

The reason DA revolvers are safe to carry with a round in all 5 or 5 chambers and no safety is that the long trigger pull is what makes the gun safe but at the same time does not make the gun more difficult to shoot as long as you take the time to practice with it.

And it's the same thing with the Glock. If you practice with the gun and pay more attention to hitting your target and gradually increasing your speed rather than focusing on how the trigger feels "wrong" to you, there is no need to mess with the trigger and make the gun less safe to carry and potentially make the gun less reliable.

Thanks. I understand about the DA revolvers and even DA/SA semis. But so I can fully understand what you're saying, if we isolate 1911 vs Glock in the context of your reply, I'm not sure where the difference lies. With the Glock safety system, it is drop safe, and the dingus has to be depressed to allow the trigger to pull back far enough to release the striker. The 1911 has the grip safety as well as the "lock" safety but it was deemed that a lock safety is not needed on a Glock, so I would assume that the dingus and the grip safety have relatively (not mechanically) the same function, too allow the trigger to be pulled releasing the hammer/striker, no?

What I'm trying to work through in my mind is to find the best setup and the way I'm seeing it is there three elements involved: Trigger pull weight. Trigger travel. Striker break. Right now the combination that I have that I seem to like the best is a short trigger pre-travel without a bump and the break just happening without feeling the wall and very limited if any overtravel. The short trigger pre-travel seems to the key to that situation. And if the trigger pull weight is then the issue at 3.5 pounds (with 4.5 pound striker spring), then it seems the easiest fix is to put in either the 5 pound or OEM spring to increase the trigger pull weight, leaving the total trigger travel at a minimum. But OTOH, changing the connector alone adds 3/4 pound of pull but also creates a hard wall. And then the question becomes how that affects my mechanics for a smooth trigger pull? In dry fire practice I feel I'm less jerky with the smooth and light setup. I've not done a live fire comparison yet but have scheduled range time for tomorrow and a possible lesson, so I'll have a more practical idea of how it affects shooting.

But again, I truly want to understand the differentiation between the 1911 and a Glock with a short, light trigger pull- at least beyond (or including) the lock safety on the 1911. Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.

 

[warbow150]

I just leave them stock. Not for liability or anything, I just don’t feel or see a need for spending money and messing with them. Factory Glock triggers have always been fine for me. If you think it’s too heavy/rough, shoot it a bunch and it’ll get nice.

 

[Borg Warner]

Thanks. I understand about the DA revolvers and even DA/SA semis. But so I can fully understand what you're saying, if we isolate 1911 vs Glock in the context of your reply, I'm not sure where the difference lies. With the Glock safety system, it is drop safe, and the dingus has to be depressed to allow the trigger to pull back far enough to release the striker. The 1911 has the grip safety as well as the "lock" safety but it was deemed that a lock safety is not needed on a Glock, so I would assume that the dingus and the grip safety have relatively (not mechanically) the same function, too allow the trigger to be pulled releasing the hammer/striker, no?

What I'm trying to work through in my mind is to find the best setup and the way I'm seeing it is there three elements involved: Trigger pull weight. Trigger travel. Striker break. Right now the combination that I have that I seem to like the best is a short trigger pre-travel without a bump and the break just happening without feeling the wall and very limited if any overtravel. The short trigger pre-travel seems to the key to that situation. And if the trigger pull weight is then the issue at 3.5 pounds (with 4.5 pound striker spring), then it seems the easiest fix is to put in either the 5 pound or OEM spring to increase the trigger pull weight, leaving the total trigger travel at a minimum. But OTOH, changing the connector alone adds 3/4 pound of pull but also creates a hard wall. And then the question becomes how that affects my mechanics for a smooth trigger pull? In dry fire practice I feel I'm less jerky with the smooth and light setup. I've not done a live fire comparison yet but have scheduled range time for tomorrow and a possible lesson, so I'll have a more practical idea of how it affects shooting.

But again, I truly want to understand the differentiation between the 1911 and a Glock with a short, light trigger pull- at least beyond (or including) the lock safety on the 1911. Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.

You're over-thinking things. And dry fire practice, unless you have some kind of laser set-up to give you a rough idea of where your hitting the target, Dry fire practice makes you focus more on the mechanics of the trigger than on your accuracy which is what's most important, and is "The Bottom Line" if you will. And even with a laser device of some kind, under rapid fire it's much harder to have a visual record of where your shots are going, whereas with bullet holes on a paper target, you have a permanent "hard copy" record.

And with dry fire, you aren't leaning to deal with recoil. This may come as bad news in our current situation which isn't likely to get better considering who's in control of all three branches of the government.knowing how to to reload is more important now than it ever was.

It took me about a thousand rounds to learn to shoot a DA revolver as accurately as I could shoot it single action and to learn to focus solely on lining up my sights and controlling the gun and not on the trigger pull itself. Then when I switched from a DA revolver to a 1911 what I had to learn was to instinctively swipe off the thumb safety and put my finger on the rigger the moment my sights were lined up on target and not a moment before until it became instinctive and that took a few hundred rounds, possibly more, of live ammo to do that.

After mastering the DA Revolver and the 1911, learning the Glock trigger was a little easier because I was already proficient at lining up my sights rapidly between shots and compensating for recoil and my focus was on those two things only and not on on the subtleties and nuances of the trigger pull. The only trigger I've ever had difficulty with was with a DA/SA semi-auto because of having to switch from DA to SA and having the added complication of a safety/decocker. I'd much prefer a single action only trigger to a DA/SA.

 

[vindibona1]

You're over-thinking things. And dry fire practice, unless you have some kind of laser set-up to give you a rough idea of where your hitting the target, Dry fire practice makes you focus more on the mechanics of the trigger than on your accuracy which is what's most important, and is "The Bottom Line" if you will. And even with a laser device of some kind, under rapid fire it's much harder to have a visual record of where your shots are going, whereas with bullet holes on a paper target, you have a permanent "hard copy" record.

And with dry fire, you aren't leaning to deal with recoil. This may come as bad news in our current situation which isn't likely to get better considering who's in control of all three branches of the government.knowing how to to reload is more important now than it ever was.

It took me about a thousand rounds to learn to shoot a DA revolver as accurately as I could shoot it single action and to learn to focus solely on lining up my sights and controlling the gun and not on the trigger pull itself. Then when I switched from a DA revolver to a 1911 what I had to learn was to instinctively swipe off the thumb safety and put my finger on the rigger the moment my sights were lined up on target and not a moment before until it became instinctive and that took a few hundred rounds, possibly more, of live ammo to do that.

After mastering the DA Revolver and the 1911, learning the Glock trigger was a little easier because I was already proficient at lining up my sights rapidly between shots and compensating for recoil and my focus was on those two things only and not on on the subtleties and nuances of the trigger pull. The only trigger I've ever had difficulty with was with a DA/SA semi-auto because of having to switch from DA to SA and having the added complication of a safety/decocker. I'd much prefer a single action only trigger to a DA/SA.

Forgive me, but I hear the "overthinking" term far too often. If you believe in the saying "there is no such thing as a stupid question", how is being curious about details any different???? I don't think there is such a thing as OVER thinking. IT'S A PROCESS OF LEARNING! Everyone has their own learning style and what they want to achieve through learning. I have a method to acquiring knowledge, and (forgive me, not boasting, just saying) in more than one area I have become a certified "expert" and in two I have become a consultant, chair person or coach. If one really is curious enough to dive into the weeds, they may have reasons that others don't understand. Sorry for the rant, but I suggest that people think about what they're really saying when they use the term "overthinking". "Overthinking" is just a way that some people need to process information to understand fully. Nothing more. Nothing less. Sorry to have gone off on you like that, but it really gets my hackles up. Some time ago I had folks making fun of me with similar "depth" exploration... only to come to me for advice on the same subject years later.

And yes... I DO HAVE A LASER SETUP, including a SIRT and software. A LOT of dry fire practice has isolated personal mechanical issues that needed fixing that would have never been addressed in live fire. I've been able to do thousands of rounds of dry fire that I never would have been able to afford with ammunition. The dry fire has uncovered issues with trigger pull, slight alignment with new sights, sight focus, stance and body position, natural point of aim and other less important elements. Having said that, now that I have begun to correct some issues that I didn't know existed before and seem to have begun to habituate new habits of drawing, presenting, aiming and trigger press, it's time to see how it crosses over to live fire. Once in live fire mode I will have the opportunity to see what feels best to me; what feels safe in a carry situation (as best as I can). And of course live fire is the "acid test" and nothing can replace it. Once having done that I can determine if I want to "stay put" with 3.5 pounds, smooth trigger pull and no wall, adding a heavier striker spring to increase trigger pull but maintaining smoothness and short trigger stroke, or increasing the trigger pull weight by changing connectors to one that has a clean break, but takes more pressure to overcome. Either way, the it's 2 minutes to swap out components between test runs.

Perhaps what I'm really asking is, that assuming all the safety parameters of firearm functions check all the boxes, what is the disadvantage of having too light a trigger pull in a defensive situation? Again, other than DA I've not owned a pistol that had measured more than 4.5 pounds, and most of them under. I just never thought about it before. And thankfully I've never had to draw a firearm and aim it at anyone- and I hope it stays that way.

 

[glockforlife100]

Mas has answered this question several times in the GATE Self-Defense Forum here. The short answer from the Expert and many others is for your EDC firearm, stock trigger is the way to go. Helps considerably if there is litigation stemming from an incident where you had to defend yourself with your firearm.

 

[vindibona1]

Update: Live fire at the range
I got to spend an hour at the range today and think I, for the most part, answer a lot of my question based on advice and observations above. I shot my 43x and my 1911 and PPKs for comparison, shooting around 200 rounds combined. I learned some things today, and for the most part know where I stand at the moment.

I shot the 43x with the lightest, shortest smoothest combination, and I don't think that going that light and short was much of an advantage. My 1911 by far shot the tightest groups but taught me a good lesson. I have propensity to flinch, or jerk or whatever. On two occasions I had set the safety on my 1911 and forgot to switch it off. Pulled the trigger and faked myself out and had movement. I know I've got to work on that. My 1911's groups were acceptably tight for the most part. My 43x, not as good, but even at 12 yards everything was well within an 8' target and relatively tight, but off to the left a bit consistently, but not down and to the left. I have to decide if it's me or the rear needs to be pushed a hair to the right. I don't have a pusher so I'll leave it alone until I can get hold of one.

Based on today's results, I've gone back to the OEM connector that puts back the wall and add another 3/4 pound of pull. I didn't think I benefitted from going so light. I like the reduced pre-travel of Johnny Glock's enhanced OEM trigger shoe. Feels so much better than the serrated one. I like it and have offered the Overwatch PolyDAT trigger to my buddy who now has it in his 43x.

FWIW I didn't dismiss any of the wisdom from the replies above. I needed the information to evaluate on my own to see what folks thought and see how my experience coincided or was counter to the advice. I don't think I need a bone stock pistol for EDC, but I think after a certain point, at least at my skill level and application there isn't much if any benefit from going too far outside of OEM spec. I think 4+ pounds with a bit of pre-travel reduction is about where I think I want to be right now. The OEM connector seems fine though the Ghost Pro does make things easier- but probably not desirable for my purposes at this time. More shooting and testing to come. On an interesting note, upon returning from the range and cleaning my Glock and doing 15 minutes of laser dry fire tonight, my dry fire groups tightened up a bit even from yesterday. I think it's what I learned today about flinching/jerking. I think that will be my focus for the next few days until I hit the range next week.

Thanks all for your comments.

Edit: Since this past post Johnny Glock graciously exchanged his $22 shoe (which I liked a lot) for his flat face trigger. It is currently on a OEM trigger bar with OEM connector. The only other upgrades are 4.5 pound striker spring and reduced power safety plunger spring. I like the flat face shoe much better for both comfort and control and measured on a Wheeler device I have a consistent pull of just over 4 pound with seemingly just the right amount of pre-travel and over travel. Johnny's flat face shoe only has over travel and I set it to his basic recommendation. While I had questions about what's too light, what's not, what's taken some experimentation and learning, I think I've found the happy medium. Just add training. Thanks again folks.

 

[Mark6a_Reloaded]

The level of training and proficiency at arms is the primary factor, carry what you're comfortable & capable with.

For some a "Duty/Carry/Combat Trigger" can be as light as 2lbs, some won't go below 4lbs, and yet others still prefer to stay above 5-6lbs. There is no such thing as a "correct answer" to your question, what's correct for me may very well be wrong/dangerous for you.

 

[Zerodefect]

I don't like aftermarket connectors. Too many have reduced travel to the point where the striker safety is INOP. That is unacceptable. I use Glock 3.5's or the LW3.5.

But that gets none of my Glocks down to a light trigger, except for my 34.4 which also has a custom tuned striker spring.

I use two thick pieces of kydex for an OWB holster, and one piece of kydex and a piece of horsehide for IWB holsters. There's no way for anything to fiddle with the trigger. Proper holsters are key to Glock use. Be extra careful reholstering.

Scenarios where speed reholstering might be needed, carbine training, SWAT, etc. I'd rather carry a 1911.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Depends... on what 'light' means. Now my Kimber Gold Match MK 1 has a maybe 3 1/2 SHORT trigger.. just a nice touch and it goes bang. Yet my Glock 29sf technically has a 3 1/2 lb trigger but it has the long long Glock squishy trigger.

Happy to carry the 29sf but I sure won't pack my Kimber (but I would pack my Kimber Classic Stainless MK 1... more reasonable trigger but it still is a short pull.)

And while my Glock 43's pull is lighter than my Glock 26 (the 26 has a NY-1 and 3.5 lb connector) the longer pull of the 43 makes it ok for me.

WHY???? Cause I don't ride the trigger while drawing. KYFFOTFT is a wise saying.. just as 'on target, on trigger, off target, off trigger' is one to.

Just train diligently, and often, on proper draw technique and don't ride the trigger, no matter how heavy or light the pull.

 

[vindibona1]

The level of training and proficiency at arms is the primary factor, carry what you're comfortable & capable with.

For some a "Duty/Carry/Combat Trigger" can be as light as 2lbs, some won't go below 4lbs, and yet others still prefer to stay above 5-6lbs. There is no such thing as a "correct answer" to your question, what's correct for me may very well be wrong/dangerous for you.

I think I'll know more as I do more tactical training. I have a lesson tentatively set up for next Friday. I don't think I've ever owned a pistol that was heavier than 3.5 pounds (in SA) and years ago when training actively I used my 1911 90% of the time with a very very short trigger stroke. So perhaps what you might be alluding to is the same thing, in reverse, of what guys say about training with stock guns and settings; that you get used to what you train with? Mercifully I have never been in, and hope never to be in a SHTF situation, and I get the adrenaline component to the confrontation. I don't know that that can truly be simulated. Based on my current level of training, I'm wondering if, just as important as trigger pull weight, pre travel, wall or no wall would be just as important, maybe moreso? When I was experimenting with JG's OEM trigger shoe, I had taken enough pre travel out of it to almost make it like a 1911 when combined with the Ghost Pro connector. I could see how that setup might not be ideal in a defensive situation, so I backed it off a bit. I've since replaced that shoe with at JG flat face shoe where he takes the pre travel out (the right amount IMO) but not adjustable like his $22 shoe, but makes the overtravel adjustable, which seems to make a lot of sense, at least for me. I can run the stock connector happily and, at least in laser dry fire, I'm more accurate, shooting tighter groups, at least on paper.

I don't like aftermarket connectors. Too many have reduced travel to the point where the striker safety is INOP. That is unacceptable. I use Glock 3.5's or the LW3.5. ...

I use two thick pieces of kydex for an OWB holster, and one piece of kydex and a piece of horsehide for IWB holsters. There's no way for anything to fiddle with the trigger. Proper holsters are key to Glock use. Be extra careful reholstering.

Scenarios where speed reholstering might be needed, .... I'd rather carry a 1911.

I'm not quite sure how the connector works in terms of travel and the striker safety. I can certainly understand removing so much pre travel that you've bypassed that safety. Can you please explain how the connector works in that regard?

Good tip about reholstering. At this time I do not have any Kydex holsters, only leather. I do have a leather competition holster for my 1911 from back in the day, long before Kydex was a thing. Perhaps I'll want (need?) a kydex holster with spring/summer tactical training? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

[Zerodefect]

The trigger bar slides up and down the ramp of the connector. Some connectors pull the trigger back a little, and/or have the striker safety part of the trigger fubar'd.

Big no no. And this does nothing good for shooting. Sure a bench guy might like no take up, but at the range, there's no pay off.

Best trigger you can get IMO:
-OEM smooth G34/35 trigger bar. Flush cut the safety and sand 2000 grit.
-Polish the bar and connector with chrome polish and a Dremel cloth wheel.
-OEM minus or 3.5 connector.
-Polish striker safety
-Maybe, on Glocks where the trigger bar is nice and free (not the large frame 21/41/20/40). Try some Wolff or Lone Wolf striker spring kits. Avoid the lightest one. You can stretch a spring to make sure trigger return is strong.
-Watch for wear on striker cross, where the bar catches it. Polish this down smooth. If you eventually wear through finish, replace with billet aftermarket striker. (my Zev striker is the only Zev part I recommend)

I use a Ravens Concealment holster for OWB. Crossbreed for IWB. Redhill has nice Uspsa holsters as well. Keep in mind, under stress, after trouble, you can reholster a Glock with the slide locked back. You don't HAVE to reholster a live Glock while your hands are still shaking and ears still ringing.

 

[vindibona1]

The trigger bar slides up and down the ramp of the connector. Some connectors pull the trigger back a little, and/or have the striker safety part of the trigger fubar'd.

Big no no. And this does nothing good for shooting. Sure a bench guy might like no take up, but at the range, there's no pay off.

Best trigger you can get IMO:
-OEM smooth G34/35 trigger bar. Flush cut the safety and sand 2000 grit.
-Polish the bar and connector with chrome polish and a Dremel cloth wheel.
-OEM minus or 3.5 connector.
-Polish striker safety
-Maybe, on Glocks where the trigger bar is nice and free (not the large frame 21/41/20/40). Try some Wolff or Lone Wolf striker spring kits. Avoid the lightest one. You can stretch a spring to make sure trigger return is strong.
-Watch for wear on striker cross, where the bar catches it. Polish this down smooth. If you eventually wear through finish, replace with billet aftermarket striker. (my Zev striker is the only Zev part I recommend)

I use a Ravens Concealment holster for OWB. Crossbreed for IWB. Redhill has nice Uspsa holsters as well. Keep in mind, under stress, after trouble, you can reholster a Glock with the slide locked back. You don't HAVE to reholster a live Glock while your hands are still shaking and ears still ringing.

I think I pretty much subscribe to your "recipe" above. So far I've not been so concerned with speed reholstering so no kydex yet. Does the Ravens holster scratch your gun? I've read that kydex holsters tend to do that. Also, the Ravens concealment holster accomodates longer barrels. How does that affet concealment? What's your take?

 

[fredj338]

You dont need a light trigger pull for good fast shooting. You need a predictable trigger pull. All my 1911s have a crisp 3.5# pull but for my primary carry, which is a stock, crisp 5#. My glocks are all stock springs with lighter connectors, about 4#. Imo, no combat pistol should be 2#, accident waitng to happen, but jmo.

 

[Mark6a_Reloaded]

...no combat pistol should be 2#, accident waitng to happen...

Yet somehow over the course of many decades there were a number of well trained shooters who successfully carried their sidearm without accident. A sidearm that after modification and tuning by the unit armorer was issued to the shooter with a 2# trigger pull...

Some after ETS/Retirement still like a sub-3# trigger on their personal carry sidearm.


On the other end of the spectrum, every year there are examples showing LEO's & CCW'ers who have ND's with long & heavy trigger pulls (e.g. 11-12lb NY trigger). It's just like I said before, what's correct for one person may very well be wrong and/or dangerous for another... proceed accordingly.

 

[fredj338]

There is zero error with 2# triggers. They are also totally unecessary for accurate fast shooting. If one thinks they need a 2# trigger for accurate fast shooting. I submit they need a lot more practice.
I wont call BS on an entire unit going in that direction & it would most likely be on a 1911, but I've seen too many 1911s get hammer follow when dropping into 1.5-2# trigger pulls. Well trained spec op guys are one thing but 90% of leo & ccw have no such training or skill set, accident waiting to happen.