[Magicmanmb]

Stopped by local Pawn Shop on way back from Dr. yesterday had 2 pistols in the case they had purchased.

Recognized them both were stolen in June from me. They are in NCIC but the shop never checked. Fake ID used to sell them, in evidence locker now.

I’ll end up having to get a court order for return, PD has case closed.

Suggest you always get a bill of sale or a copy of CCW or DL.

 

[VN350X10]

In the Demokratic Peoples Republik of Illinois we are required to keep a record of a firearms transaction for 10 years on a private sale, and now must get a State Police approval number for the transaction. Usually provide FOID & Dr. Lic. as ID. but CCW permit can now sub for FOID.

uncle albert

 

[Gray Dood]

I get receipts.

They list items shipped, cost of shipping, and who shipped to. May also have tracking number depending on time of day. My FFL is almost fully automated for this stuff.

 

[erbob]

Uncle Albert is correct on having to keep firearms transfer records for (10) years for Illinois individuals. For an individual to individual transfer, just a phone call to the Illinois State Police furnishing the potential buyers FOID number and his/her birthday is required. This may also be accomplished via computer and results with authorization come back almost immediately. Back in Colorado, ALL firearms transfers MUST be made via FFL so there would be a good case of always requesting a receipt from the FFL to prove the transfer was made to comply with their law.

In the Demokratic Peoples Republik of Illinois we are required to keep a record of a firearms transaction for 10 years on a private sale, and now must get a State Police approval number for the transaction. Usually provide FOID & Dr. Lic. as ID. but CCW permit can now sub for FOID.

 

[sniper48]

I appreciate all replies. Thank you. I think I have to risk pissing him off:

If my FFL gets run over by a beer truck tomorrow there's nobody to tie up his bureaucratic loose ends. Single guy. No kids. No one in his family who's knowledgeable about FFL. So who knows whether his records ever get 'sent in and sorted' as required.

A month later a robbery is committed using one of my ex-gatz. I'm contacted by LE and asked to produce the firearm. I say, "I sold that firearm to an out-of-state buyer through my FFL three years ago."

"We have NO RECORD of that transfer (for whatever reason). PROVE that you forfeited control of the firearm to your FFL on a particular date."

"Gulp....it was about three years ago, and he never gave me any paperwork...on ANY of the transfers."

"Sir, you need to come with us..."

I think you are letting your imagination run wild. Even if he were killed and no family members are around, the authorities will still dispose of his property and once they find out he was a licensed dealer, all of that will get attended to. I never furnished a receipt to anyone unless it was going to CA. You are required to send that and a few other pieces of paperwork along with the gun.

 

[Core781]

Over the years I've sold Glocks and other fireams through my FFL. He's never given me any paperwork... I asked him about that a while ago and he said, "If there's ever any question about a formerly owned firearm, refer the authorities to me."

The FFL is a friend, so I want to be courteous, but I'm concerned about what would happen if he becomes deceased, or for some reason his records are no longer available. Or perhaps at some point his records are no longer considered to be in good standing.

I'm not asking for any speculation on this matter. I don't want to offend my FFL/friend, so if you really know whether the FFL is obliged to furnish a receipt to the Seller for each firearm transfer, please let me hear from you.
Thanks

Sounds like a good friend to me. Once he processes it he take liability for it.

 

[Zeke338]

I have a good friend that sold a .45 to a crooked dealer. One day the State Police
came knocking at his door and asked him if he owned .45 serial number XXXXXX.
The Police officer said it was used in a bank robbery and found at the scene of the
crime. My friend was really scared. Fortunately the police were already investigating
that particular dealer and my friend got off. Never sell a gun without receiving a receipt.
The dealer is not transferring a gun he is buying it from you and selling it to another
person. It says so in his bound book. Once he takes possession it's his gun not yours.

Zeke

 

[ItnStln]

I have a good friend that sold a .45 to a crooked dealer. One day the State Police
came knocking at his door and asked him if he owned .45 serial number XXXXXX.
The Police officer said it was used in a bank robbery and found at the scene of the
crime. My friend was really scared. Fortunately the police were already investigating
that particular dealer and my friend got off. Never sell a gun without receiving a receipt.
The dealer is not transferring a gun he is buying it from you and selling it to another
person. It says so in his bound book. Once he takes possession it's his gun not yours.

Zeke

When you say that your “friend got off” did they charge your friend? I’m curious because this has me rethinking selling any firearms that I own.

 

[Intolerant]

When you say that your “friend got off” did they charge your friend? I’m curious because this has me rethinking selling any firearms that I own.

If you`re following the law, where's the problem selling them (?)
Its just smart to do a transaction that will show proof where the firearm went.

 

[arrtvandelay]

If you`re following the law, where's the problem selling them (?)
Its just smart to do a transaction that will show proof where the firearm went.

+1

Step 1) Follow the federal government firearms laws (don’t sell anything outside of your state without going through an FFL in the purchaser’s state/don’t knowingly sell to a felon)

Step 2) Follow your state’s firearm laws

Optional (but probably prudent) Step 3) Doucment who you sold your gun to ( This is NOT required by federal law for unlicensed persons)

General advice-don’t sell guns to make profit and don’t buy one for someone else

For an individual to be charged with a crime involving the selling/transferring of a gun, there generally must be a modicum of proof of wrongdoing for any prosecution to rely on to bring forth charges. If you’ve followed the law, that proof won’t exist. While having police or ATF agents visit you about a gun they’ve traced to you as the original owner I’m sure can/would be a worrying development, if you’ve done things by the book, there’s not really anything to worry about.

I will point out that I am not a lawyer, but I do think the laws for selling a gun privately are pretty clear and easy enough to follow.

 

[Kingarthurhk]

Over the years I've sold Glocks and other fireams through my FFL. He's never given me any paperwork... I asked him about that a while ago and he said, "If there's ever any question about a formerly owned firearm, refer the authorities to me."

The FFL is a friend, so I want to be courteous, but I'm concerned about what would happen if he becomes deceased, or for some reason his records are no longer available. Or perhaps at some point his records are no longer considered to be in good standing.

I'm not asking for any speculation on this matter. I don't want to offend my FFL/friend, so if you really know whether the FFL is obliged to furnish a receipt to the Seller for each firearm transfer, please let me hear from you.
Thanks

My guy does it on an apple pay pad, you can have the receipt send to your e-mail. The LGS I take for minor stuff, gives me a receipt and a tag number. The guy I have do the more advanced stuff is still on the job.

 

[plotter dude]

I guess it could happen. When firearms are traced the ATF starts with the manufacturer which leads to the distributer and then to the first purchaser. Depending how many times it was bought and sold or traded, swapped lost or stolen.
And if in that chain a dealer goes out of business achieved records.
And back when gun shows were fun, it wasn't uncommon to trade or swap 2 or more times before leaving. When private transfers weren't required to go thru a FFL holder.

 

[ItnStln]

If you`re following the law, where's the problem selling them (?)
Its just smart to do a transaction that will show proof where the firearm went.

Indeed it is

 

[RenegadeGlocker]

I have a good friend that sold a .45 to a crooked dealer. One day the State Police
came knocking at his door and asked him if he owned .45 serial number XXXXXX.
The Police officer said it was used in a bank robbery and found at the scene of the
crime. My friend was really scared. Fortunately the police were already investigating
that particular dealer and my friend got off. Never sell a gun without receiving a receipt.
The dealer is not transferring a gun he is buying it from you and selling it to another
person. It says so in his bound book. Once he takes possession it's his gun not yours.

Zeke

Your example only highlights that receipts are not needed. I too had a crime gun traced. Nothing happened. 30 second phone call with ATF.

 

[plp]

I appreciate all replies. Thank you. I think I have to risk pissing him off:

If my FFL gets run over by a beer truck tomorrow there's nobody to tie up his bureaucratic loose ends. Single guy. No kids. No one in his family who's knowledgeable about FFL. So who knows whether his records ever get 'sent in and sorted' as required.

A month later a robbery is committed using one of my ex-gatz. I'm contacted by LE and asked to produce the firearm. I say, "I sold that firearm to an out-of-state buyer through my FFL three years ago."

"We have NO RECORD of that transfer (for whatever reason). PROVE that you forfeited control of the firearm to your FFL on a particular date."

"Gulp....it was about three years ago, and he never gave me any paperwork...on ANY of the transfers."

"Sir, you need to come with us..."

Nonexistent scenario, don't believe everything you see on TV.

And for the record, yes, my LGS gives me a register receipt. I have to write down all the pertinent data on the back, which gun, what serial number, etc., but if it is cash coming out of his register, there is going to be a receipt. That is just basic record keeping.

I've had one incidence involving a firearm used in a crime, in that the gun was stolen. I had bought it from a pawnshop, who had bought it from a known customer, who had bought it at a gun store in Florida, who had bought it from an individual. It wasn't until I sold it and the guy who bought it, who is a local deputy sheriff, ran the SN, that it was discovered to have been stolen from a home break in in Tampa. That means it went through 4 4473's before I sold it.

It is a bit of a don't ask, don't tell situation. He let me know what was going on, but has never asked for his money back.

 

[plp]

There are at least a couple of states that require you to keep records of private firearms sales. In Alabama, we don't have to.

We don't have to, but I do anyway. I have done a few face to face purchases, and one sale. I ask for ID, and take a pic on my phone. I have had one guy that said no freakin' way is that happening, I said sorry to waste your time and have a nice day. I don't know if it was a shady deal or if the guy was simply exercising his right to privacy, don't care.

I will not do business with criminals, and will not arm one. Not saying the guy was anything other than someone not willing to give out personal information, but I want to see a legit name coupled with a picture before I'm taking a risk.

 

[cowboy1964]

I sure as heck would want a copy of the transfer. What if the gun is used in a crime and you can’t prove you sold it?

You don’t have to prove anything. Receipts can be lost. Receipts can be faked.

 

[The Father]

Have always received a receipt. Kinda sounds like a common sense standard deal to me.

 

[The Father]

We don't have to, but I do anyway. I have done a few face to face purchases, and one sale. I ask for ID, and take a pic on my phone. I have had one guy that said no freakin' way is that happening, I said sorry to waste your time and have a nice day. I don't know if it was a shady deal or if the guy was simply exercising his right to privacy, don't care.

I will not do business with criminals, and will not arm one. Not saying the guy was anything other than someone not willing to give out personal information, but I want to see a legit name coupled with a picture before I'm taking a risk.

Exactly what I do. I take a picture of the buyers ID with weapon serial # visible.
Had a couple say no, so I move on.

 

[nmglock]

When you sell to a FFL he logs it in that he accepted it with your name and address. When he sells it he logs it in again with name and address of new owner