[bobandmikako]

The sale of the firearm is between the buyer and seller. The FFL only handles the federal and state requirements of transferring (background check) the gun. He does not collect any sales tax nor does he profit from the sale of the gun. His charges cover the paperwork and the phone call for the background check. He is working for the buyer and that is why (in a very general sort of way) the FFL doesn't give the seller any paperwork.

I guess it depends on the arrangement. When I sell on consignment at my LGS, I fill out a form that essentially transfers the gun to the LGS for sale. They place the gun with the rest of their used inventory in the gun counter. They do charge sales tax when someone buys one. They take 15% of the sale for profit, which is fine with me for the convenience of not having to deal with it and the fact that the store gets a lot of business, so sales are made fast. Anyway, when the gun is sold, the same form I filled out at the beginning is given back to me with the check. The form is annotated with the sale price, amount of their fee and net paid to me. I do not receive information on the buyer as the store was the seller but I do have a record of the transaction. Oh, in the event I decide I want to take the gun back and not sell, I fill out a 4473 and they transfer it back to me (no charge).

When I do happen to do a private sale and not put it on consignment, my state doesn't require a bill of sale and I don't do one unless the buyer requests it. If they do request it, I have no problem with it.

 

[Bren]

Over the years I've sold Glocks and other fireams through my FFL. He's never given me any paperwork... I asked him about that a while ago and he said, "If there's ever any question about a formerly owned firearm, refer the authorities to me."

The FFL is a friend, so I want to be courteous, but I'm concerned about what would happen if he becomes deceased, or for some reason his records are no longer available. Or perhaps at some point his records are no longer considered to be in good standing.

I'm not asking for any speculation on this matter. I don't want to offend my FFL/friend, so if you really know whether the FFL is obliged to furnish a receipt to the Seller for each firearm transfer, please let me hear from you.
Thanks

I guess I'd have to say WTF?

When I sell a gun, I hand it to the buyer and he hands me money. Unless I saved an email or something, I couldn't even tell you his name a week later - if I ever knew it in the first place.

Why would I sell a gun through an FFL or care if I had a receipt?

I say that after spending the last 31 years mostly as a police officer or as a lawyer for law enforcement agencies.

 

[Kentak]

I don't understand why someone wouldn't insist on getting, or be hesitant to provide, some paperwork for the seller to show the gun was sold. What would be a buyer's reason for not providing something to the seller if requested? I wouldn't want to do the sale/trade if that was the case.

I almost never sell a gun outright, rather I transfer it to the dealer as part of a trade. The dealer provides a paper that documents the sale by me.

 

[bobandmikako]

When I sell a gun, I hand it to the buyer and he hands me money. Unless I saved an email or something, I couldn't even tell you his name a week later - if I ever knew it in the first place.

Why would I sell a gun through an FFL or care if I had a receipt?

There are at least a couple of states that require you to keep records of private firearms sales. In Alabama, we don't have to.

 

[Jailbirdwatcher]

In Pennsylvania transfers are required on handguns. The buyer must pay the FFL and have the background check and required state and federal paperwork. Long guns may be sold face to face without the FFL nor the paperwork. However, the seller is responsible not to sell to anyone that he knows to be ineligible to own firearms (definately a gray area).

 

[late]

Thanks for all insights. For the record, the transfers to which I'm referring are straight transfers by the FFL to facilitate my online sale of each firearm. I did the selling. The FFL is simply performing his official duties with regard to interstate transfer.

 

[Planetcat]

The only one I did was a private party transfer for a Marlin rifle between me and my buddy. The gun shop gave me a receipt for the $35 transfer fee they charged, but listed the rifle and serial number.

 

[Darkangel1846]

Over the years I've sold Glocks and other fireams through my FFL. He's never given me any paperwork... I asked him about that a while ago and he said, "If there's ever any question about a formerly owned firearm, refer the authorities to me."

The FFL is a friend, so I want to be courteous, but I'm concerned about what would happen if he becomes deceased, or for some reason his records are no longer available. Or perhaps at some point his records are no longer considered to be in good standing.

I'm not asking for any speculation on this matter. I don't want to offend my FFL/friend, so if you really know whether the FFL is obliged to furnish a receipt to the Seller for each firearm transfer, please let me hear from you.
Thanks

Mine gives me a receipt , it list the weapon, S#, number of magazines, any extras, and what I want for it. You also have to consider what he wants for running it through his books.

 

[RenegadeGlocker]

When I sell a gun, I hand it to the buyer and he hands me money.

Why would I sell a gun through an FFL

I say that after spending the last 31 years mostly as a police officer or as a lawyer for law enforcement agencies.

Because it is illegal to sell interstate without FFL.

31 years as a cop/lawyer, you should know that.

 

[FootballRef48]

Always , always , always get a receipt of sale of your firearm to another person. When you give your gun to the FFL you should get a receipt and get a receipt of the person who purchased it for your records. When the ATF comes knocking at your door someday, you will be glad you got the receipts.

 

[sunfish]

Over the years I've sold Glocks and other fireams through my FFL. He's never given me any paperwork... I asked him about that a while ago and he said, "If there's ever any question about a formerly owned firearm, refer the authorities to me."

The FFL is a friend, so I want to be courteous, but I'm concerned about what would happen if he becomes deceased, or for some reason his records are no longer available. Or perhaps at some point his records are no longer considered to be in good standing.

I'm not asking for any speculation on this matter. I don't want to offend my FFL/friend, so if you really know whether the FFL is obliged to furnish a receipt to the Seller for each firearm transfer, please let me hear from you.
Thanks

Only did this once & FFL gave me invoice from FFL seller, as well as the $25 transfer fee receipts.

In business for a loooong time so my guesses:
a) keeping paperwork to a minimum in a small biz or lazy
b) no time for lawyers
c) transfer fees are undeclared lunch money aka general office funds off the books
d) buddy never charged you a transfer fee?

 

[Ghost doctor]

My FFL always gives me a receipt and a 'triplicate copy' of the form they fill out for their records. Both the receipt and the triplicate form shows that it was a transfer and a description of the firearm with its serial #. Which I understand is not necessarily required...because as mentioned above they are responsible for the transfer but it does provide peace of mind that if anything were to be questioned I have a documented record of the sale/transfer myself. Maybe I just have a good FFL.

I have always been told that you are supposed to keep a personal record of ALL FIREARM TRANSACTIONS for the past 7 years, so, i wonder if it's true?

 

[Vito]

I've done trade-ins with FFL's and always got a receipt for the gun I traded to them. I'm not sure I still have those receipts from years ago, but that is another question entirely. Anytime I sell, or leave any item for repair I ask for a receipt if one is not automatically provided to me. If nothing else, should the store close or burn down, etc, I want something to show my insurance company.

 

[Bean44]

My FFL always gives me a receipt they fill out for their records. the receipt shows that it was a transfer and a description of the firearm with its serial number. If you don't get the receipt, the person doing the transaction may be wanting to gain the firearm illegally without filling out the FFL form. All FFL dealers are required to LOG-IN any trade-in to their Log Book per government regulations. But, Do they?

 

[arrtvandelay]

While I certainly agree it’s wortwhile to have some sort of document/receipt of a gun traded/sold to an FFL, from what I can gather, there’s no stipulation that you must have it. This of course is also dependent on your state’s laws.

To clarify on private sale record keeping, straight from Big Brother:

https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-a...answers/qa/what-recordkeeping-procedures-should-be-followed-when-two-unlicensed

Again, your state may have different requirements, but according to fed rules, private sellers are not required to keep any such records, just don’t buy and sell guns for profit without an FFL. That gets you in big doo doo.

 

[Intolerant]

No paperwork? No Sale or Transaction happens on my end. I want written proof in ink and paper of what took place with ANY firearm. This isn`t the "good ole days" anymore. Its the written word that wins in a court of law, IF, that's where it ends up, and usually does, by the time its all over. Gov`t knocking on your door is usually NOT a good thing... never ends well, for you.

 

[Bret]

I guess I'd have to say WTF?

When I sell a gun, I hand it to the buyer and he hands me money. Unless I saved an email or something, I couldn't even tell you his name a week later - if I ever knew it in the first place.

Why would I sell a gun through an FFL or care if I had a receipt?

I say that after spending the last 31 years mostly as a police officer or as a lawyer for law enforcement agencies.

Though you're not legally required to transfer through an FFL for in state transfers, that won't prevent you from getting sued by the family of the person that was killed by your former firearm. Being able to demonstrate that you went above and beyond what's required by the law to make sure the person ending up with the gun can legally possess it will likely win such a lawsuit. On the other hand, if you didn't lift a finger to make sure your gun stayed out of the wrong hands, then let's just hope you have nothing to lose as you're leaving it up to a jury that would be very sympathetic to the family. Bottom line, just because you can doesn't mean that it's wise to do so.

Thanks for all insights. For the record, the transfers to which I'm referring are straight transfers by the FFL to facilitate my online sale of each firearm. I did the selling. The FFL is simply performing his official duties with regard to interstate transfer.

late, I think you're wasting money. I've sold quite a few guns through Gunbroker. I get a copy of the buyer's dealer's FFL, print the auction summary, and keep both for my records. If the government ever comes calling, then I'll simply hand them copies. Do it this way and you'll have the records you want plus you'll save the transfer fee.

If you really want to stick with using him, then there's no reason at all he can't provide you a receipt. It should indicate "Transfer of" followed by model and serial number. You're not selling to him, so the receipt should not appear as he purchased it from you.

 

[Intolerant]

Though you're not legally required to transfer through an FFL for in state transfers, that won't prevent you from getting sued by the family of the person that was killed by your former firearm. Being able to demonstrate that you went above and beyond what's required by the law to make sure the person ending up with the gun can legally possess it will likely win such a lawsuit. On the other hand, if you didn't lift a finger to make sure your gun stayed out of the wrong hands, then let's just hope you have nothing to lose as you're leaving it up to a jury that would be very sympathetic to the family. Bottom line, just because you can doesn't mean that it's wise to do so.


late, I think you're wasting money. I've sold quite a few guns through Gunbroker. I get a copy of the buyer's dealer's FFL, print the auction summary, and keep both for my records. If the government ever comes calling, then I'll simply hand them copies. Do it this way and you'll have the records you want plus you'll save the transfer fee.

If you really want to stick with using him, then there's no reason at all he can't provide you a receipt. It should indicate "Transfer of" followed by model and serial number. You're not selling to him, so the receipt should not appear as he purchased it from you.

You NAILED it Bret! Well said...!
Here in the Communist Nazi state of NY, ALL firearms transactions have to go thru a dealer now since the (un)safe-act became law by Adolf Cuomo.

 

[theazlit]

Over the years I've sold Glocks and other fireams through my FFL. He's never given me any paperwork... I asked him about that a while ago and he said, "If there's ever any question about a formerly owned firearm, refer the authorities to me."

The FFL is a friend, so I want to be courteous, but I'm concerned about what would happen if he becomes deceased, or for some reason his records are no longer available. Or perhaps at some point his records are no longer considered to be in good standing.

I'm not asking for any speculation on this matter. I don't want to offend my FFL/friend, so if you really know whether the FFL is obliged to furnish a receipt to the Seller for each firearm transfer, please let me hear from you.
Thanks

You are correct to question this FFL. The law requires FFLs to maintain written records with serial numbers. I live in a state that requires mandatory (by written law) of notification of any loss or stolen firearms within 48 hours of the owner’s knowledge. I have also had the occasion to return a purchased firearm for a trade-in. My FFL provided a written receipt with both the serial numbers of the trade-in firearm as well as the purchased firearm serial number. I always scan my firearm receipts and maintain an imaged copies on an encrypted portable storage device as a backup record. I lock the portable storage in my safe. It is unlikely that this will be an issue with you, however I would create your own receipt record and present it to your FFL and request him/her to sign it. This way, your doing the paperwork for him and I think it may solve your dilemma- Good Luck

 

[slugger6]

I have been an FFL dealer for thirty years. Any and all firearms that go through my store generate receipts.