IME, the whole XTP line (and their brother the HAP line) are incredibly accurate. I would look at the gun. I get tack driving accuracy out of my 1911's with them.

 

I am thinking maybe I just haven't hit on a good load for this bullet. The G30s is brand new and the G21 has only had about 200 rounds through it. Hardball factory rounds shoot quite accurate, just not my hand loads.
I was hoping someone was willing to share a good load for it. ?

 

I use 5.8gr of BE for a SD load. I shoot them from my G21SF and 1911's.

For a target load, I drop that down to 5.2gr, they seem to work well.

You might want to make sure your crimp die is adjusted to just take the belling out of the case and no more. Too much crimp can hurt accuracy pretty badly. Other than that, I can't think of what it could be.

 

The XTP may be the most accurate jacketed bullet I have shot in several calibers. Maybe the Sierra shades it by a bit. BE just may not work as well with jacketed as it does with lead. I've shot some stupidly small groups with the 200gr XTP over WST.

 

I use 5.8gr of BE for a SD load. I shoot them from my G21SF and 1911's.

For a target load, I drop that down to 5.2gr, they seem to work well.

You might want to make sure your crimp die is adjusted to just take the belling out of the case and no more. Too much crimp can hurt accuracy pretty badly. Other than that, I can't think of what it could be.

I have been crimping to .469 the same as my cast bullet loads, maybe that is the problem. ..?

 

I have been crimping to .69 the same as my cast bullet loads, maybe that is the problem. ..?

Might give just straightening the case a try. I generally crimp my LSWC's to .469 for feed reliability, but that is more of a 1911 thing. My G21SF will feed pretty much anything that will fit in the chamber.

 

I have been crimping to .469 the same as my cast bullet loads, maybe that is the problem. ..?

Pull that bullet, measure it. If it is smaller than 0.451", you are over crimping & that never helps accuracy. Same for lead btw, but 0.452".

 

is this right, crimp cast bullets to .469 and with jacketed just remove the bell in the case mouth ? what should the crimp measure with jacketed bullets ?

 

The 200 XTP and a good charge of WSF is the most accurate load I've found in my 1911.
I shot a coyote a while back with that combo and the it fell like it was struck by lightning:wow:

 

is this right, crimp cast bullets to .469 and with jacketed just remove the bell in the case mouth ? what should the crimp measure with jacketed bullets ?

I think I would just use the "straighten the belling out and no more" policy with any bullet you are loading for the G21.

As far as the correct dimension, it depends on the thickness of the brass you are loading and the diameter of the bullet.

With thinner head stamps like R-P, or TZZ, your finished OD (with a just straight case mouth) will be smaller than say when you are using a thicker brass case like Fiocchi or Federal. So if you are loading mixed head stamps, measuring may not be as useful. Also, lead will be a thicker bullet than jacketed (typically), so a lead bullet will have a larger OD with the case mouth just straightened than say a jacketed one.

Within the context of the above reality, measuring a finished round mouth dimensions only matters when you are loading for a particular gun where that dimension might make a difference for reliability of feed, the G21/G30 isn't that gun.

Just straighten the case mouth with the crimp die and you should be fine with your Glocks. If you get a match barreled 1911 and start loading LSWC's, then we can talk again.

PS - The reason commercial ammo is so uniform is they control all the tolerances that go into a finished round, brass thickness, bullet diameter, sizing die diameter and they can adjust any of the forgoing if something changes. When we load with mixed headstamp and a single fixed sizing die dimension, you get variances (coke bottle shaped cases, varying neck tension, etc. etc.)

You can improve things by sorting head stamps and loading your jacketed with a single thicker brass head stamp case and your lead with the thinner stuff, but it still isn't going to be as uniform as premium commercial ammo. But then, with that, you don't get to tune the load.... and so it goes, on and on...

 

The brass I am using is all once fired with the same federal head stamp, they were picked up at a local police range.

What OAL are you seating the 200 grn XTP's to ?
I am using a taper crimp die.

 

The brass I am using is all once fired with the same federal head stamp, they were picked up at a local police range.

What OAL are you seating the 200 grn XTP's to ?
I am using a taper crimp die.

Same head stamp, thicker brass cases (like the Federal's) are ideal for loading jacketed in 45 ACP.

I seat my XTP's in 45 Auto to 1.225". I do that because some of my 1911's have very little free bore and the sharp break on the ogive of the 45 XTP's will jam in the throat if loaded longer.

For the G21/G30, you likely have a lot more free bore (mine do), so you can probably load them longer, which is a good thing. I would load them as long as your most finicky gun (gun with the least free bore) will allow.

As far as crimp, again you only want to be ironing out the belling with your crimper. In rimless semi rounds that head space on the case mouth, the biggest mistake they ever made was to call it a crimp. You don't want to "crimp" anything. Back your crimp die all the way up and then, screw it down on a seated but uncrimped round. Screw it down in quarter turn increments until there is no more flare in the case, no more. You can hold the round up to a light background and see the case mouth edge, when it no longer flares out. If you see it turned inward toward the bullet, back it out until it is straight, you are done.

 

I am seating 200 grn XTP's to 1.250 and this works in both my Glocks and my colt gold cup series 70.
With the taper crimp I am at 0.475 right at the case mouth with the XTP's, does this sound about right ? With my LSWC I am at 0.469 right at the mouth with the same OAL of 1.250.
You guys sure know what you are doing and I appreciate all the help.

 

I am seating 200 grn XTP's to 1.250 and this works in both my Glocks and my colt gold cup series 70.
With the taper crimp I am at 0.475 right at the case mouth with the XTP's, does this sound about right ? With my LSWC I am at 0.469 right at the mouth with the same OAL of 1.250.
You guys sure know what you are doing and I appreciate all the help.

My guess is .475 is pretty close. It has been a while since I had my ball end mic out, but if my memory serves me right, Federal cases are about .0125" thick, so given a nominal .451" bullet, you are at +.001" past straight on the crimp which should be fine.

On The OAL, depending on the throat of your Gold Cup, it likely will be the gating gun on how long you can load the XTP's. The good news is the XTP's are very consistent, so when you find a length that causes your gun to fail to go into battery (the shoulder of the XTP jamming into the lands), you can back down like .005" and it will probably work flawlessly from that point on.

 

Mine mike at .473. Any larger and they are tight in some of my chambers.

 

Are federal 45 acp cases the preferred case for reloading? Or are other cases just as good ?

 

Are federal 45 acp cases the preferred case for reloading? Or are other cases just as good ?

Federal are not my least preferred, but right up there. I do like them for jacketed 45 Auto and 40 S&W loads, but that is about it. As I don't load a lot of jacketed 45's, my Federal 45 ACP cases don't get a lot of use.

I do like Federal for 40 S&W loads as they have a very heavy web. I sometimes use Federal 40 cases for my 10mm loads, again, because of the heavy web.

In general, for 45 Auto (and all other pistol calibers) my favorite brass is Starline, next is Winchester. For lead loads, I also like TZZ and R-P because they are very thin so the fatter lead bullets work great with my sizing dies.

I throw all Federal rifle brass away, too soft. I prefer Winchester and Lapua for rifle.

 

Thank you for all the help in this forum. I went to the range yesterday and my 200 grn XTP's shot great for me. You guys were right on with just removing the bell in the case mouth on them, I believe my problem was over crimping my bullets just like you guys said. With an OAL of 1.250 and .475 at the mouth they functioned great in both my Glock's and my Colt gold cup. Accuracy was greatly improved.

 

All the crimp discussion aside, note that those who mentioned powders all were using slower ones than Bullseye.
I've used Power Pistol, WST, WSF, Unique and a little Silhouette with 200g XTPs, all were accurate through G30 and Kimber 1911.

 

I am getting excellent accuracy with 200 lswc in my Gold Cup with 4.0 to 4.2 of bullseye. What would the equivelent be to that for a 200 gr jacketed bullet ?
I am back to and still struggling with accuracy with the 200 gr XTP's, I can not seem to get them to shoot right in my G30.

 

I am getting excellent accuracy with 200 lswc in my Gold Cup with 4.0 to 4.2 of bullseye. What would the equivelent be to that for a 200 gr jacketed bullet ?
I am back to and still struggling with accuracy with the 200 gr XTP's, I can not seem to get them to shoot right in my G30.

Your Glock bbl may just not like that bullet, happens. About 4.5gr of BE under a 200gr XTP would be equiv to the vel with your 200gr LSWC, but there are no accuracy guarantees.:supergrin: