[Sin_City]

Newb here and have been researching reloading and equipment. Don't want to spend a lot of money especially with the holidays around the corner and LEE fits my budget comfortably. I have done my due diligence and have read of the problems in regards to the LM. I do have some mechanical appitude and may be able to tinker and figure some problems.

I will be reloading 9mm, .40, .45 and possibly .308 and .223. Pistols, I shoot about 300 rounds a month and don't shoot a lot of rifle rounds.

Looking at the Turret, it would seem to be the easiest to maintain and troubleshoot. But after looking at the prices of the kits, they are pretty much priced the same. My time is of value to me and I like the speed of a progressive. In either case, I will be buying separate turrets for quick caliber change overs. I understand with the Turret kit, I will need the dies and with the specific LM kit, I'll also need the factory crimp die since it only comes with a 3-die set. I also want a digital scale so the the included balance-beam scale included in the Turret kit is a non-issue as well as the included reloading book.

Comments to help steer this Newb please. Tks.

 

[Boxerglocker]

Newb here and have been researching reloading and equipment. Don't want to spend a lot of money especially with the holidays around the corner and LEE fits my budget comfortably. I have done my due diligence and have read of the problems in regards to the LM. I do have some mechanical appitude and may be able to tinker and figure some problems.

I will be reloading 9mm, .40, .45 and possibly .308 and .223. Pistols, I shoot about 300 rounds a month and don't shoot a lot of rifle rounds.

Looking at the Turret, it would seem to be the easiest to maintain and troubleshoot. But after looking at the prices of the kits, they are pretty much priced the same. My time is of value to me and I like the speed of a progressive. In either case, I will be buying separate turrets for quick caliber change overs. I understand with the Turret kit, I will need the dies and with the specific LM kit, I'll also need the factory crimp die since it only comes with a 3-die set. I also want a digital scale so the the included balance-beam scale included in the Turret kit is a non-issue as well as the included reloading book.

Comments to help steer this Newb please. Tks.

For the sheer number of calibers and volume of total rounds your quoting, even if doubled to 600. The clear choice is the LCT. Load master your gonna have to tweek each and every time you do a caliber change. Turret change the head and case holder adjust your powder drop and your off.

 

[Colorado4Wheel]

The reason I recommend the LCT over the LM is because I only recommend products I feel confident will work. The LM does not fit that criteria. It has worked for many but has also been a huge PITA to many. Myself included. It's not about mechanical aptitude. Some work some don't.

You also don't need a FCD. Just get the regular Lee Taper Crimp die.

 

[Sin_City]

I didn't realize with each caliber change, there is more tweaking involved. I thought once you set the dies in the turret for the LM, all you had to do was swap the turret and die plate for caliber changes?

Colorado: Some don't work? Wow..that is bad.

 

[dkf]

Buy the LCT. Cheap and quick caliber changeovers. If you decide to upgrade (to say a 550 or 650) in the future the LCT will still come in handy for load development, rifle, working up small batches and etc. It really is a nice little press to have bolted to the bench.

To start off with the LCT your best bet and bang for th ebuck is to get the Kempf's LCT kit with upgraded pro powder measure and get the Dillon beam scale.

 

[F106 Fan]

Well, right away, you know you are going to have to change the primer setup because two of your cartridges use small primers and two use large.

If you buy the LCT at Kempf's, you won't get the beam scale and you can spend the money at Dillon for a decent digital or even a decent beam if money is really limiting.

https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php...oduct_details&product_id=630&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41&vmcchk=1&Itemid=41

Make sure to get the Auto Disk upgrade.

You DO NOT want to buy a factory crimp die for pistol cartridges. Either buy a separate Taper Crimp die or buy a set that includes one.

For rifle cartridges, the Lee Factory Crimp die does a nice job but only if you are using bullets with a cannelure. Many desirable bullets won't have a cannelure so you won't be crimping. I see there is a taper crimp die available for this situation but I have never used one.

So, I use the FCD to crimp .223 55 gr FMJ and just rely on neck tension for everything else.

Richard

 

[fredj338]

The LCT is a simpler tool, less likely to cause problems that slow output. If you want a reliable progressive, spend a little more $$. Cost of gear is cheap when compared to your lost time cost IMO. Reality, only 300rds a month could easily be done a ss simple ss press. Buying a more complicated progressive to load 75rds a week, why? That is one hour on a ss press, 30min on a LCT. It would take you longer to swap calibers on the LM & get it running than that.:dunno:

 

[Colorado4Wheel]

I didn't realize with each caliber change, there is more tweaking involved. I thought once you set the dies in the turret for the LM, all you had to do was swap the turret and die plate for caliber changes?

Colorado: Some don't work? Wow..that is bad.

Mine was a POS. Some people have good luck. Your experience is the only one that is going to mater to you in the long run.

Your right. Turret change, powder adjustment. Super easy on both presses.

LM has a shellplate vs a shell holder of the LCT. LCT is a smidge easier.

 

[at_liberty]

The context of advice against the Lee FCD should be re lead bullets, because it works very well otherwise on both pistol and revolver rounds, taper or roll crimp.

For lead, I have gone to the Redding Profile Crimp Die for revolvers and Taper Crimp Die for pistols. I already owned a couple Hornady crimp dies, and they are fine, just difficult to find for sale right now. Good excuse to spend a bit more for Redding.

I think the LCT would be just right for what you describe. BTW, I own both.

 

[F106 Fan]

Here is a video on installing the Safety Prime and how to change it between small and large primers. Pretty simple compared to, say, a 1050!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iVdUD-pj_4"]Lee Classic Turret Press and Safety Prime - Part 3 of 5 - Safety Prime and Changing Cartridges - YouTube[/ame]

The entire series would be worth watching just to see how things go. There are a LOT of LCT videos on YouTube.

Richard

 

[Sin_City]

Will be loading jacketed bullets. So, okay with the FCD?

Thank you, everyone, for your advice. Looks like I will be going with the simplicity of the Turret. Hopefully someone (Kemps, Midway, CDT) will have an online Black Friday sale.

 

[F106 Fan]

Will be loading jacketed bullets. So, okay with the FCD?

One more time with emphasis (at least for pistol) NO :wavey:

There are two things to know about the FCD: First, it attempts to correct, by post-sizing, a problem you shouldn't have. Second, the post-sizing, if it touches the round at all, will remove the neck tension holding the bullet in position. This can result in bullet setback and higher pressures.

People have been loading for many decades without an FCD. Somehow, they were successful. Wildly successful! Now, all of a sudden, there's this new die and everybody should have one. Why?

Oh, and don't count on any equipment sales. It has been nearly impossible to even get reloading equipment for the last year or so.

Richard

 

[Sin_City]

F106: No on FCD. So, buy the 3-die set and go with a Taper Die? Doesn't the seating die also add a crimp?

 

[Colorado4Wheel]

F106: No on FCD. So, buy the 3-die set and go with a Taper Die? Doesn't the seating die also add a crimp?

Yes but it's so much easier to just separate the steps.

 

[F106 Fan]

F106: No on FCD. So, buy the 3-die set and go with a Taper Die? Doesn't the seating die also add a crimp?

From Lee, buy the 3 die carbide set and then just buy the taper crimp die separately.

Dillon die sets always include a taper crimp die. But they don't include an expander die because that is done with the powder funnel. An entirely different powder setup than Lee uses.

Richard

 

[fredj338]

Will be loading jacketed bullets. So, okay with the FCD?

Thank you, everyone, for your advice. Looks like I will be going with the simplicity of the Turret. Hopefully someone (Kemps, Midway, CDT) will have an online Black Friday sale.

My test targets using the LFCD, cast lead, plated & jacketed. Least affect was med hard cast lead. All shot @ 50ft. I gave mine away.:dunno:

 

[Andrew Tacquard]

Not sure if you have seen my results, but I was very happy with the LM. I recently purchased one (I upgraded from the pro1000, and used parts from the pro1000 to save a little money). Anyways, I heard they had issues but was willing to spend a little to see if it worked. It does produce ammo, and at a reasonable rate (750ish/hour). Once I set mine up I have had no issues and probably at 6-8K rounds now. I have not changed calibers yet, however I do plan on using it for the 300 BLK. It will mean a shell plate change, primer mechanism change, head with dies, collator/case feeder change, then the powder measure. The shell plate and primer system could probably be both swapped in under a minute if you were pressed for time. I've taken mine out for cleaning after I loaded a bit, and it was quick and easy. So much so that if I want to change primers (like CCI to Federal) I remove the primer system and shell plate as it takes about a minute and is the quickest way I have found so far (if I have primers in the primer tray). I can't imagine the seating depth taking long either (if there is any difference), as it was quick when I set the press up. I have an extra powder dump, so once I set the head up with dies and powder dump it will be a quick change to go between the two calibers. I do load in the 10mm with is a longer case than the 9 and 40, which might help with the case collator. As I almost never have an upside down case (usually only when I overload the collator). I have been using the adjustable disk in for the powder measure, but have went back to the regular disk system. I have had better results with metering with the bullseye.

I have never used the LCT, so I cannot tell you which I would prefer. Though I have been very happy with my LM and at this time will probably never by a dillion unless I can get a good deal on one used. I have used dillions before, and they are a much better machine. But I am cheap, and the Lee works well for me.

 

[RustyFN]

One more time with emphasis (at least for pistol) NO :wavey:

There are two things to know about the FCD: First, it attempts to correct, by post-sizing, a problem you shouldn't have. Second, the post-sizing, if it touches the round at all, will remove the neck tension holding the bullet in position. This can result in bullet setback and higher pressures.

People have been loading for many decades without an FCD. Somehow, they were successful. Wildly successful! Now, all of a sudden, there's this new die and everybody should have one. Why?

Oh, and don't count on any equipment sales. It has been nearly impossible to even get reloading equipment for the last year or so.

Richard

Richard if that is true then why do the big ammo manufactures use a finishing die that does the same thing as the post sizing ring on the FCD? Does that mean it is not safe to buy factory ammo? I use a FCD for all of my pistol reloading with jacketed and lead bullets and have not had any of the problems you mentioned.

 

[F106 Fan]

Richard if that is true then why do the big ammo manufactures use a finishing die that does the same thing as the post sizing ring on the FCD? Does that mean it is not safe to buy factory ammo? I use a FCD for all of my pistol reloading with jacketed and lead bullets and have not had any of the problems you mentioned.

Simply put, why would the die do anything? In theory, it should only resize those rounds that are oversized. That is exactly what Lee says it should do.

Fine, why are the rounds oversized? What is wrong in the reloading process that allows a round to be oversized? There is always the issue that, by definition, lead bullets are 0.001" larger in diameter than jacketed. If the die can correct oversized jacketed rounds, what is it going to do to lead rounds?

Any attempt to swage the bullet down to make it fit a die will result in a loss of neck tension. The only reason there is neck tension is that the brass was sized a little smaller than the bullet diameter and now the bullet has been swaged even smaller.

There is simply no need for the die. It is attempting to solve a problem that shouldn't exist. There is no reason for a round to be oversized.

As near as I can tell, the die was invented about the time people started reloading .40 S&W and were simply incapable of properly adjusting the sizing die. Now we have pre-sizing dies and post-sizing dies to cover up problems with the process, neither of which should be necessary with modern brass and chambers.

A little case lube and a conventional sizing die is all it takes. These other dies aren't necessary. Everybody who comes around worrying about the mythical "Glock Bulge" in .40 gets the same recommendation: Use case lube, properly adjust the sizing die and use a light tapered crimp. It always seems to work out.

As to what the factory does? Who knows? They use roll sized cases. You will never see a factory round with the distinctive Coke bottle shape of a reload. At least I have never seen one...

Richard

 

[Colorado4Wheel]

Richard if that is true then why do the big ammo manufactures use a finishing die that does the same thing as the post sizing ring on the FCD? Does that mean it is not safe to buy factory ammo? I use a FCD for all of my pistol reloading with jacketed and lead bullets and have not had any of the problems you mentioned.

Because factory ammo basically sucks.