[Folkvangr]

Just curious what you all prefer who shoot single stack division in USPSA, and why?

 

[9x45]

Since Single Stack is scored Major, you are giving up points on C and D hits shooting Minor, but you only have 8 rounds in the mag. Since arrays are limited to 8 rounds, for single stack and wheel guns, you have no room to miss. You can get 10 rounds in a 9mm, get more capacity for a miss, but scored Minor. At our last Level 1 two day match there was 265 shooters, 7 in Single Stack, 5 Major and 2 Minor. Another Level 1 club match, 65 shooters, only one SS, Major.

Shooting any SS, Major or Minor, is really cool, but you are reloading as soon as you pull the trigger.... I'll stick with Limited, only because USPSA is over run with Carry Optics and Limited Optics. Those divisions have increased attendance by over 50%, and added 3 hours to match time.

 

[Folkvangr]

Since Single Stack is scored Major, you are giving up points on C and D hits shooting Minor, but you only have 8 rounds in the mag. Since arrays are limited to 8 rounds, for single stack and wheel guns, you have no room to miss. You can get 10 rounds in a 9mm, get more capacity for a miss, but scored Minor. At our last Level 1 two day match there was 265 shooters, 7 in Single Stack, 5 Major and 2 Minor. Another Level 1 club match, 65 shooters, only one SS, Major.

Shooting any SS, Major or Minor, is really cool, but you are reloading as soon as you pull the trigger.... I'll stick with Limited, only because USPSA is over run with Carry Optics and Limited Optics. Those divisions have increased attendance by over 50%, and added 3 hours to match time.

Understood, but if you were to shoot in single stack division, what would you prefer? Since one is scored higher on C and D, however like you said you're limited to 8 round mags compared to 10 round mags for minor. I know stage rules in uspsa say you can only set up a position with 8 shots max, but are there advantages to the additional 2 rounds in your opinion?

 

[9x45]

I shot IPSC Classic (USPSA Single Stack) from 1976, then USPSA from 1984 to 1992, .45acp. Today I would go with a 9mm only because I've developed osteo arthiritis in 1988, so switched to Glocks in 92. Yes, if the array contains any steel, there is a huge advantange from missing with a Major and having a standing reload. But the Division is practically non exist anymore, so I have no interest.

 

[4 Paws]

But the Division is practically non exist anymore, so I have no interest.

That's what I usually say about production, hardly anyone shoots it anymore

 

[9x45]

And revolver, like it ever was. Wheel gunners belong in ICORE. Lets go back to Open and Limited.

 

[Folkvangr]

That's what I usually say about production, hardly anyone shoots it anymore

That's what I've been shooting in uspsa for the past few months, glock 19 in production from AIWB lol. I still compare myself to others on overall score even though they usually shoot CO or LO.

And revolver, like it ever was. Wheel gunners belong in ICORE. Lets go back to Open and Limited.

I'd have more ammo on tap if I went to limited, so it wouldn't be the end of the world for me, if they scrapped production and expected production folks to go into limited. I just like to compete with my EDC even though I know I'm at a disadvantage, and it does feel good when you still beat someone with your EDC while they're using some multi thousand dollar open race gun.

 

[MarkCO]

I shoot single stack and I have both 9mm and 45 1911s.

Minor or Major depends some on the courses. If they are making it challenging for Open/PVC, I feel minor is the ticket because on many targets, only As are available anyway.

If you have a limited speedster as a course designer, major is the ticket.

 

[Jim Watson]

I did a line count at a recent USPSA match.
Considering CO, LO, Open, and PCC, 90% of entries had optic sights.
I am an iron sight dinosaur but I kind of doubt the head shed cares much about the 10%.

An IDPA shoot at the same range was lagging behind at "only" 70% optic.

 

[Folkvangr]

I shoot single stack and I have both 9mm and 45 1911s.

Minor or Major depends some on the courses. If they are making it challenging for Open/PVC, I feel minor is the ticket because on many targets, only As are available anyway.

If you have a limited speedster as a course designer, major is the ticket.

when you say limited speedster as course designer, are we talking stages with sub 10 second pars with high HF?

Curious too - if you were to approach a course and you weren't sure of if it was either or, what would you bring, your single stack in minor or major?


I already purchased a 1911 but curious on this, since at the end of the month there's a single stack only match, I won't really know what the stages are until the night of.

 

[paramedicop]

Understood, but if you were to shoot in single stack division, what would you prefer? Since one is scored higher on C and D, however like you said you're limited to 8 round mags compared to 10 round mags for minor. I know stage rules in uspsa say you can only set up a position with 8 shots max, but are there advantages to the additional 2 rounds in your opinion?

Yes. Makeup shots on 8-shot arrays without having to reload. Throw a delta or a mike? Take the makeup shot without forcing a standing reload at that position.

 

[paramedicop]

That's what I've been shooting in uspsa for the past few months, glock 19 in production from AIWB lol. I still compare myself to others on overall score even though they usually shoot CO or LO.




I'd have more ammo on tap if I went to limited, so it wouldn't be the end of the world for me, if they scrapped production and expected production folks to go into limited. I just like to compete with my EDC even though I know I'm at a disadvantage, and it does feel good when you still beat someone with your EDC while they're using some multi thousand dollar open race gun.

"I'd have more ammo on tap if I went to limited"

8 rounds, maybe 9. Production is already at 15 instead of 10. That's maybe one extra reload in a course of fire, likely while moving between arrays. Likely zero in anything 28 rounds or less in a course.

 

[paramedicop]

when you say limited speedster as course designer, are we talking stages with sub 10 second pars with high HF?

Curious too - if you were to approach a course and you weren't sure of if it was either or, what would you bring, your single stack in minor or major?


I already purchased a 1911 but curious on this, since at the end of the month there's a single stack only match, I won't really know what the stages are until the night of.

Generally, you're going to be better off major if you're regularly shooting charlies. Where it will bite you is stages set up with multiple 8 shot arrays. That leaves you no room for error, and a standing reload for a makeup shot eats time. Since your score is divided by time, you generally want that as low as possible.

If you're unsure AND you regularly need makeup shots (for D's and M's), minor is the safest bet.

 

[Folkvangr]

"I'd have more ammo on tap if I went to limited"

8 rounds, maybe 9. Production is already at 15 instead of 10. That's maybe one extra reload in a course of fire, likely while moving between arrays. Likely zero in anything 28 rounds or less in a course.

Sure it may not completely save you the requirement to reload, but gives you more flexibility in stage planning where you decide to do that reload. Some parts of stages are more optimal for working a reload on the move than others, IMO.

 

[paramedicop]

Sure it may not completely save you the requirement to reload, but gives you more flexibility in stage planning where you decide to do that reload. Some parts of stages are more optimal for working a reload on the move than others, IMO.

Agreed.

 

[9x45]

Folk, what is your current classification in Production?

It's not the round count of a stage, it's the number of reloads. If you go 16 in Production, that's that same as 8 + 8 for a SS Major. Either way, if you are moving in Production or SS, you should be loading. For CO and LO, starting at 24 usually only means 1 reload (and always while moviing). That's why most of the time, most, Open guys take overall running 9mm Maor with 31 rounds, and scoring Major, unless you are in the USPSA top 20 in other Divisions. And most of the time, the only challenge to an Open shooter, is PCC, but then the stage builders usually make it more difficult for PPC's anyway.

 

[Folkvangr]

Folk, what is your current classification in Production?

B

It's not the round count of a stage, it's the number of reloads. If you go 16 in Production, that's that same as 8 + 8 for a SS Major. Either way, if you are moving in Production or SS, you should be loading. For CO and LO, starting at 24 usually only means 1 reload (and always while moviing). That's why most of the time, most, Open guys take overall running 9mm Maor with 31 rounds, and scoring Major, unless you are in the USPSA top 20 in other Divisions. And most of the time, the only challenge to an Open shooter, is PCC, but then the stage builders usually make it more difficult for PPC's anyway.

I think I see what you mean, but let me just repeat it my own way to verify I'm understanding you correctly...

So even if I come out of a section of the stage with say 9 rounds of ammo left running to another section where 8 shots are needed, I should still be reloading regardless and approaching with a full mag, if I can do that without slowing my time as much?

 

[MarkCO]

when you say limited speedster as course designer, are we talking stages with sub 10 second pars with high HF?

Curious too - if you were to approach a course and you weren't sure of if it was either or, what would you bring, your single stack in minor or major?


I already purchased a 1911 but curious on this, since at the end of the month there's a single stack only match, I won't really know what the stages are until the night of.

Yes.

If I cared about my score, minor. But I mostly shoot major, as the matches important to me are He-Man in 3Gun. 10 rounds of .45 there.

I really don't care about my scores anymore. I've had top 10s and better in majors when I was shooting more. At 58, I just want to enjoy the shooting, friends, and such.

But, if I was back in C or B class wanting to improve, I'd shoot minor in SS because that will be better for classifiers.

 

[paramedicop]

So even if I come out of a section of the stage with say 9 rounds of ammo left running to another section where 8 shots are needed, I should still be reloading regardless and approaching with a full mag, if I can do that without slowing my time as much?

If you're shooting single stack major, 9 rounds is fully loaded (8+1).

If you're shooting Production, that's a judgement call - should you reload between those two arrays, or that array and the next one, or both?

If you're sure you can clear that array of 8 with 9 rounds, you could... but if there's time to reload between arrays (meaning the reload isn't slowing you down), there's no disadvantage to doing so.

In general, movement with a less than full gun - with time to do the reload between arrays while moving - a reload is the best option.

 

[Folkvangr]

If you're shooting single stack major, 9 rounds is fully loaded (8+1).

If you're shooting Production, that's a judgement call - should you reload between those two arrays, or that array and the next one, or both?

If you're sure you can clear that array of 8 with 9 rounds, you could... but if there's time to reload between arrays (meaning the reload isn't slowing you down), there's no disadvantage to doing so.

In general, movement with a less than full gun - with time to do the reload between arrays while moving - a reload is the best option.

I understand the capacity requirements of each division, but I think where I had an "aha moment" was I'm not reloading enough on the move, and basically telling myself "ok be a little slower and more careful so I don't need to make up for any mikes or deltas and going into slide lock"