Okay, so what replaced tennifer? Nitrite?

 

Not sure exactly what replaced it. Maybe nothing... just a metal coating ???

 

Gaseous ferritic nitrocarburizing process. Tennifer & Melonite are just different brand names for the same chemical process. Whatever they call it now...doesn't really matter. What I'm hoping for is that Glock will eventually settle on the quality outer most layer of the finish, similar to the one present on the older Gen3 pistols and commonly referred to as "frying pan" finish.

 

Glock's website just talks about the new finish. Nothing about replacing the metal treatment.

 

Glock in Austria used a salt-bath (not gaseous) ferritic nitrocarburizing process that was propietary to Durferrit GmbH in Mannheim Germany. The identical process was called by several trademark names...but NEVER was the process called tennifer, tinifer, tanifor, tenafer, or tenefer or any other of the imaginative BS names that people on gun forums like to just make up in lieu of troubling themselves to learn the horribly complex correct name. The process was often trademarked as TENIFER in German-speaking countries.

 

I'd sure like to know what the frying pan finish was on the Gen 3 guns. That stuff wears like iron. My 9 year old G19 barely shows any wear at all and it been shot and carried regularly.


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Here, Here, some one who understands that Tennifer was never a finish but a metal treatment before any treatment was applied. This is probably the biggest fallacy in all of Glock history. Now whatever they put in the Eggshell finish pot that is the true mystery as it wears great, doesn't scratch, may get a shiny area but that is about it.

 

Tenifer, not Tennifer.

 

"Gaseous ferritic nitrocarburizing process. Tennifer & Melonite are just different brand names for the same chemical process. Whatever they call it now...doesn't really matter. What I'm hoping for is that Glock will eventually settle on the quality outer most layer of the finish, similar to the one present on the older Gen3 pistols and commonly referred to as "frying pan" finish."

Thanks, that's what I thought. Both my Gen 3s have a grayish finish that looks like parkerizing. It does show holster wear but I like it.

 

Yeah, I'm well familiar with it. Wear shows much quicker, but on the positive side it's very "grippy".

 

As noted, in Europe (Austria) Glock used Hef Durferrit's nitrocarburizing process that was sold as Tenifer there. They use other names for the process, including Melonite (the brand name it is sold under in the U.S., see note below for exact quote from Hef Durferrit regarding this).

It is not banned by the EPA (car and racing parts are hardened by this process all the time, and the USEPA even has a web page describing the hazardous byproducts and handling, so don't be swayed by assertions it is prohibited here, because it is not!).

Glock stopped putting the Tenifer name on their U.S. marketing literature, and we don't know if it was because they were making guns in the U.S. (which would not be able to use that brand name, even if the formula was identical), or if they simply chose to do the equivalent of buying facial tissues because Kleenex cost $12 more per gun, and the hardening process was essentially the same.

The new finish (nDLC, RunDMC, or whatever) looks promising, and to be a return to the frying pan finish I prefer, but underneath it, Glock is doing some form of metal hardening, and it is surely a variation of the long-established nitrocarburizing process, whether brand-name, generic, bath, spray, etc.

source: Hef-Durferrit USA web site, http://www.hefusa.net/_pdfs/Tufftride-QPQ-Process.pdf

"The TUFFTRIDE® process is known in English-speaking and Asian countries under that name, in Europe and German-speaking countries as TENIFER® and in the USA as MELONITE®.

TUFFTRIDE®, QPQ®, TENIFER®and MELONITE® are registered trademarks of Durferrit GmbH."



.

 

Tennifer, Melonite, Nitride, Nitrocarburization are all basically the same thing, a case hardening process that penetrates and imbues the outer layer of steel with carbides and nitrides; they are very hard and corrosion resistant. The color of steel doesn't change much, it is like a dull grey. The nitrided steel can be parkerized or blued or similarly darkened for the final look. Even if the bluing wears, the nitride layer remains and the steel is still hard and corrosion resistant.

DLC is diamond like carbon, which is essentially a layer of carbides or similar compounds plated on the surface of the steel. This finish is just as hard and basically as corrosion resistant as nitriding, however if the DLC surface layer is breeched, bare steel can be exposed to corrosion.

If Glock switched entirely to DLC, it wouldn't necessarily be a worse finish, it is just as good as nitrocarburizing, assuming the layer doesn't flake or chip.

However, if Glock's DLC is added on top of the old Tennifer (nitrocarburizing), then the new Glocks have the ultimate finish, even if the DLC flakes in some areas, the now exposed nitrocarburized layer would still prevent corrosion and wear.

 

The gas melonite isn't as deep or hard as the bath melonite treatments. But it is more EPA compliant.

Also keep in mind, that it doesn't matter if the EPA's book says Tenifer is still ok for use. None of the US regulatory people read the rules or follow them. (None of the code inspectors at hospitals or retirement home follow modern code books. NONE of them. They don't even have a copy of the laws.) If the EPA is putting pressure on Glock to use a gas melonite process, not a bath. There's not much Glock can do.

I haven't seen any evidence of any finish over the melonite on g4 Glocks. I doubt the g5's are any different. I'll wait and see.

If there is a difference between G4 and G5, I would guess it's the time spent in the melonite process, or metal finish before the process.

 

I thought the Gen 4 had the "fry pan" finish....?????
All BS aside, I want to see it typed by someone that is associated with Glock, is an advanced (If that exists) Glock Armorer, or that knows more about Glocks than Gaston himself;
1) Does Glock still make Gen 3 firearms?
2) If they do, is it most likely going to be the Gen 4 finish?
I want to give Glock another chance. I want to buy a G23, be it the "OLD" Gen 3, (If that's possible) or a Gen 4, if I must.
If I have to, I will buy a LE trade in G23 and have MIDDLEBRANCH MACHINE (https://www.facebook.com/MiddlebranchMachine/) refinish the slide. They do EXCELLENT work!

 

The gas melonite isn't as deep or hard as the bath melonite treatments. But it is more EPA compliant.

Also keep in mind, that it doesn't matter if the EPA's book says Tenifer is still ok for use. None of the US regulatory people read the rules or follow them. (None of the code inspectors at hospitals or retirement home follow modern code books. NONE of them. They don't even have a copy of the laws.) If the EPA is putting pressure on Glock to use a gas melonite process, not a bath. There's not much Glock can do.

I haven't seen any evidence of any finish over the melonite on g4 Glocks. I doubt the g5's are any different. I'll wait and see.

If there is a difference between G4 and G5, I would guess it's the time spent in the melonite process, or metal finish before the process.

The EPA still has nothing to do with Tenifer. Salt bath nitriding is alive and well in the U.S. especially in the form of Melonite. I've got a LWD stainless that I had melonited and I've been using it for the last year in competition. No surface finish was applied, just the black resulting from the melonite. Still looks new with little wear. Tenifer has never been a process used in the U.S.. Melonite salt bath nitriding has been and still is.

 

You just said that the Glock factory doesn't have EPA type inspections at it's factories?

 

Follow the money. Glock is a for profit company and will do whatever it feels is in the best interest of the company whether it be MIM parts or metal finishes.

 

Black Nitride (aka, Tennifer/Melonite/QPQ) is all the same thing.

It's a Hi-Temp Pickling bath (1,050 degrees) that produces a "hardness" or heat treatment INTO the metal (like .0004-.0006" deep).

Then they put the parts into a "Black Oxide" bath (which is just like Gun Bluing but it's Black). This is to darken the color from the heat treatment which is a gray.

Contrary to what we have been told, the EPA has not banned it.

A couple of years ago, I saw for the 1st time, a Glock slide rust! It was on a Gen 4 G27 Carry Gun. Near the cocking serrations you can see some faint pitting:

 

Black Nitride (aka, Tennifer/Melonite/QPQ) is all the same thing.

It's a Hi-Temp Pickling bath (1,050 degrees) that produces a "hardness" or heat treatment INTO the metal (like .0004-.0006" deep).

Then they put the parts into a "Black Oxide" bath (which is just like Gun Bluing but it's Black). This is to darken the color from the heat treatment which is a gray.

Contrary to what we have been told, the EPA has not banned it.

A couple of years ago, I saw for the 1st time, a Glock slide rust! It was on a Gen 4 G27 Carry Gun. Near the cocking serrations you can see some faint pitting:
View attachment 350029

This. The Tenifer trade name is used in Europe. I don't know if there is any minor recipe differences from Melonite. However, Melonite is used in the U.S. on all kinds of machine parts from crankshafts to gun parts.

 

It's all the same??? How can that be if the EPA banned it?

 

EPA nev... Oops, just saw the emoji.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing

Scroll down to "USES" and it explains Glocks slide and barrel treatment process.

 

Okay, so what replaced tennifer? Nitrite?

DLC (Diamond Like Carbon) replaced it.

Another version of a hardening process. All of these metal treatments are, to one degree or another, modern forms of "case hardening." They are applied differently, but they change the hardness of the steel, and they do not "wear off" in the sense that the steel becomes softer over time.

Melonite and its other trade names, Tufftride or Tenifer are the same thing. See:

http://www.hefusa.net/salt_bath_nitriding_liquid_nitriding/overview.html
http://www.hefusa.net/melonite_qpq.html

Originally, Glock would apply a finish over the tenifer hardened slide to make it dark. In the beginning, the used Parkerizing, or maybe phosphating, or some other firearms finish. It is this external finish that changed over the years, NOT the surface hardening or case hardening of the steel.

About DLC:

http://www.hefusa.net/pvd_coating/DLC-coatings.html
http://www.ionbond.com/en/technology/pacvd/

So, although DLC is often referred to as a "coating," it is in reality another way of increasing hardness of the steel and the nDLC process also builds in amazing lubricity. From that standpoint, I can see why Glock says nDLC is "better" than the QPQ process (melonite, tuftride, tenifer).

S&W was doing runs of its M&P pistols for LE purposes years ago that had completely different SKU numbers. Those all had the DLC treatment instead of Melonite.

 

DLC (Diamond Like Carbon) replaced it.

WRONG from the start.

nDLC is the surface or top coat applied to the metal after it has been treated. The bare metal is still treated just like it had been with Gen3-4, but the surface coat now applied is nDLC.

Just like before with TENIFER - it was not the 'Tenifer" you were looking at, but the surface paint applied after the Tenifer treatment on the metal.
That is the major misinformation with Tenifer - people keep talking like it is the surface coat. It is invisible under the top coat, not the part that shows wear.

Normally, nitrided metal looks just slightly darker and greyer than untreated bare metal. Before the surface coat gets applied.

AND, it is not the "frying pan finish". There is a process called "black nitride" where additives are added to the nitriding process to make the treatment and black surface, all at the same time, but i don't think this was used on Glocks-- and the black has a even matte black appearance.

 

Tennifer ... stopped being used years ago due to environmental reasons.

I keep seeing this repeated WITHOUT citation to anything other than some guy at the LGS, or whatever.

I imagine HEF USA and its parent companies, HEF Durferrit and HEF Groupe, the owners of the tenifer, melonite, tufftride trade names or process would be shocked to learn that their processes cannot be used due to "environmental reasons." LOL

 

The original Glock Tenifer was a form of salt bath ferritic nitrocarburizing

This was discontinued and replaced with a form of gaseous ferritic nitrocarburizing around the time the Gen 4 was introduced.

That is what I'm certain of, but why exactly they switched is unknown. The Austrian Glock customer service rep I spoke with awhile back claims there were complaints about the original Tenifer from special forces and that's why they changed. I find that hard to believe and think it was more likely cost cutting related.

Tenifer and Melonite are often said to be the exact same thing, but from my understanding, there are some subtle differences even though they both fall under the same general label.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Z...hUKEwi3oLLm4ZvWAhWDKiYKHfgnDs44ChDoAQgqMAI#v=onepage&q=tenifer is toxic&f=false

From Page 51...

"While Glock lead the way with Tenifer, it is by no means the only company that uses FNC or a variant of it. Smith & Wesson was of the leaders in a variant of FNC called "Melonite." The differences between Melonite and Tenifer would fascinate a chemist or production engineer and bore the socks off most shooters. Mostly, they are variations of the chemical solutions, the time and temperature, and an increasingly important consideration-the creation(or rather, the non-creation) of hazardous by-products.

...

 

I have a glock 29 gen 3. I've only had it a year and accidentally dropped it on the concrete and it slid on the ground. I picked it up expecting to see deep scratches everywhere,but was suprìsed to see there was no scratches, except for a small shiny line that you can barely see which is amazing. Does that mean I have the tennifer metal??? Again it's a glock 29 10mm gen 3.

 

The Finish on my Glock 19 Gen 5 is very durable and if it gets marks from finger prints a dry cloth will take them off