[cowboy1964]

You could go the pistol route however, and change the buffer tube, then swap the barrel now. That way you can shoot it with a shorter barrel while you wait for the stamp. When the stamp comes in, swap in the rifle buffer tube and you're GTG.

As someone else stated, you can't convert a rifle to a pistol, if that's what you are saying. You can buy a pistol and wait for your stamp then buy a stock but you can't just take the stock off of a rifle and make it into a pistol.

 

[mlevinson]

Can you take a rifle and replace the barrel with a shorter one and make it an SBR after approval?

 

[Gdirty5]

Can you take a rifle and replace the barrel with a shorter one and make it an SBR after approval?

Yes

 

[Big Bird]

Can you take a rifle and replace the barrel with a shorter one and make it an SBR after approval?

Assuming you already own the gun in question...

Step 1: Go on the ATF website and order a form 1 kit...it will come with all the paperwork you need including the Form 1 Application, fingerprint cards and affidavit.

Step 2: Take the fingerprint cards (you need 2 per application) to your local law enforcement/police department/sheriff's office. Call before you go and ask when they do this (some have specific days and hours--many will not let you just walk in). Also, most places charge a small fee to do it...like $5 per card. So be sure you know that as well and bring cash.

Step 3: Have some passport size photos made 2" x 2" the instructions are on the application. If you don't know how to run a digital camera and print on some card stock have someone else do it. Kinkos/Fedex will do it for $15

Step 4: Figure out the barrel length and the total length of the completed SBR...

Step 5: Fill out the Form 1--there are many many online resources for doing this AND the form itself comes with detailed instructions. Its not intuitive and there are many boxes on the form you will simply leave blank. But again, look at the online resources for this and all will be made clear. There is no longer a requirement to have the Chief LEO in your county approve your application. You just have to fill out the part about LEO notification and ATF will automatically provide notification Having a trust no longer makes much sense because you still have to get fingerprints and photos regardless of Trust or not.

Step 6. Send in the completed form, fingerprint cards, $200 check, photos, and wait.

Step 7. While you are waiting for your form to be approved have your receiver engraved with your name and city/state. There are rules for this in terms of size and depth of lettering and I have found its easier to just send it to someone who specializes in this type of engraving rather than taking it to a trophey shop. You can send rifle receivers USPS Prioriity Mail and I've done it several times with AR receivers using the $5.50 flat rate box. With an AR receiver I have found the front of the Mag Well is about the best place for this as nobody ever sees it.

Step 8: When you finally receive your approved Form 1 you can now legally possess the parts required to assemble the SBR and proceed to build your rifle.

 

[Kentak]

Assuming you already own the gun in question...

Step 1: Go on the ATF website and order a form 1 kit...it will come with all the paperwork you need including the Form 1 Application, fingerprint cards and affidavit.

Step 2: Take the fingerprint cards (you need 2 per application) to your local law enforcement/police department/sheriff's office. Call before you go and ask when they do this (some have specific days and hours--many will not let you just walk in). Also, most places charge a small fee to do it...like $5 per card. So be sure you know that as well and bring cash.

Step 3: Have some passport size photos made 2" x 2" the instructions are on the application. If you don't know how to run a digital camera and print on some card stock have someone else do it. Kinkos/Fedex will do it for $15

Step 4: Figure out the barrel length and the total length of the completed SBR...

Step 5: Fill out the Form 1--there are many many online resources for doing this AND the form itself comes with detailed instructions. Its not intuitive and there are many boxes on the form you will simply leave blank. But again, look at the online resources for this and all will be made clear. There is no longer a requirement to have the Chief LEO in your county approve your application. You just have to fill out the part about LEO notification and ATF will automatically provide notification Having a trust no longer makes much sense because you still have to get fingerprints and photos regardless of Trust or not.

Step 6. Send in the completed form, fingerprint cards, $200 check, photos, and wait.

Step 7. While you are waiting for your form to be approved have your receiver engraved with your name and city/state. There are rules for this in terms of size and depth of lettering and I have found its easier to just send it to someone who specializes in this type of engraving rather than taking it to a trophey shop. You can send rifle receivers USPS Prioriity Mail and I've done it several times with AR receivers using the $5.50 flat rate box. With an AR receiver I have found the front of the Mag Well is about the best place for this as nobody ever sees it.

Step 8: When you finally receive your approved Form 1 you can now legally possess the parts required to assemble the SBR and proceed to build your rifle.

Thank you! That's the most comprehensive answer so far. Yes, I do already own the rifle.

If you don't mind me asking, do you know this because you've done it yourself?

 

[Big Bird]

Thank you! That's the most comprehensive answer so far. Yes, I do already own the rifle.

If you don't mind me asking, do you know this because you've done it yourself?

Multiple times. The process changed a little this summer when they deleted the approval process for the Chief LEO in your county. But I recently submitted two more applications and this is the process.

 

[mlevinson]

Thank you Big Bird! Very informative.

 

[Big Bird]

Thank you Big Bird! Very informative.

There's a lot of little details I omitted just because you will learn them as you go along. You will fill out two form 1's...when you are approved one of them will come back to you with your photo attached and there will be a cancelled $200 treasury stamp affixed to the form. Keep this in a safe place as this is your NFA registration and proof that you paid your $200 tax. I make a copy of it and keep the copy in the hollow part of my pistol grip. That way if you are ever stopped and questioned about the legality of the gun by a LEO you can prove you have a legally registered SBR. Keep in mind that you cannot legally cross state lines with an NFA weapon without notifying the ATF of your intentions using their form. Also, you cannot move the weapon into a state that prohibits SBR's or other NFA type weapons OR if your gun has magazine or other features that are prohibited in that state you are still prohibited from possessing such as weapon--legal NFA or not. You can no longer gift, loan or sell this weapon without going through a NFA dealer and the buyer will have to submit the paperwork to own a SBR and pay the $200 transfer tax as well.

 

[TX OMFS]

Big Bird nailed it other than to say you engrave the gun (step 7) with your trust name, city, and state if you are buying with a trust.

I would HIGHLY recommend you buy NFA stuff with a trust just for your heirs. If you buy it as an individual then when you die your heirs will have to pay another $200 per item to move them into a trust or into their individual names.

If you Google up NFA lawyers you can find about a million guys willing to do your trust. Silencerco offers one for about $100 on their website. I used a local attorney for mine.

 

[PEC-Memphis]

Big Bird nailed it other than to say you engrave the gun (step 7) with your trust name, city, and state if you are buying with a trust.

I would HIGHLY recommend you buy NFA stuff with a trust just for your heirs. If you buy it as an individual then when you die your heirs will have to pay another $200 per item to move them into a trust or into their individual names.

If you Google up NFA lawyers you can find about a million guys willing to do your trust. Silencerco offers one for about $100 on their website. I used a local attorney for mine.

This is not true, but it is a common misconception.

The executor makes the transfer(s) to the heir on a Form 5, "Application for Tax-Exempt Transfer and Registration of Firearm"

See Section 9.5.3

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-9/download​

But a firearms trust does make the process much easier.

 

[PEC-Memphis]

.... Keep in mind that you cannot legally cross state lines with an NFA weapon without notifying the ATF of your intentions using their form.

Although an NFA item, the "crossing state line" does not apply to suppressors/AOW. Also, you [technically] don't have to have an approved 5320.20 for each state line you are planning to cross. Only your "destination" state needs to be approved, you can cross state lines in-between your state and the destination state - but you need to be on a reasonable route between your origin and destination. Also, you can get approval to travel to another state for a period of up to one (1) year, so if you travel to another state frequently, you don't have to fill out, and get an approved 5320.20, each time.

Also, you cannot move the weapon into a state that prohibits SBR's or other NFA type weapons OR if your gun has magazine or other features that are prohibited in that state you are still prohibited from possessing such as weapon--legal NFA or not.

I believe you can travel through a state that prohibits possession of NFA/prohibited features, under FOPA.

You can no longer gift [1], loan [1] or sell [2] this weapon without going through a NFA dealer and the buyer will have to submit the paperwork to own a SBR and pay the $200 transfer tax as well.

[1] If the NFA item is in a trust, you can make another person a trustee [temporary or permanent]. While this is not technically "loaning" or "gifting", it does make a legal provision for another person to possess the item without your presence.

[2] I'm pretty sure you can sell an NFA item to another person without having to go through an 03 dealer as long as the buyer is in the same state. Of course they have to have an approved Form 4 (with the $200 tax) before they can take possession - and you inform the BATF&E that you no longer possess the NFA item (no refund on stamp). As I recall, if the buyer is in another state, there is a $200 transfer to the dealer in your state (form 4), then another transfer to the out-of-state dealer (form 3 - no fee), then another $200 transfer (Form 4) from the dealer in the buyer's state to the buyer; at current wait times this would probably take 1-1/2 to 2 years.

ETA: https://www.arsenalattorneys.com/fi...pros-and-cons-of-privately-buying-selling-a-used-silencer-or-other-nfa-firearms

 

[Hef]

Thanks. So, is taking a currently owned rifle and swapping the long barrel to a short one considered "building" an SBR?

Yes. When you register a Title 1 firearm (GCA) as an SBR, you are "making" a Title 2 firearm (NFA). That you are making it from an existing weapon is irrelevant. You use a Form 1 to make an NFA weapon, and then after that it transfers on a Form 4 (or in some cases Form 3).

 

[Hef]

Although an NFA item, the "crossing state line" does not apply to suppressors/AOW. Also, you [technically] don't have to have an approved 5320.20 for each state line you are planning to cross. Only your "destination" state needs to be approved, you can cross state lines in-between your state and the destination state - but you need to be on a reasonable route between your origin and destination. Also, you can get approval to travel to another state for a period of up to one (1) year, so if you travel to another state frequently, you don't have to fill out, and get an approved 5320.20, each time.

During the hurricane evacuation I was told by the ATF office in Columbia that, due to the declared state of emergency and mandatory evacuation, and the wisdom of keeping my SBR secure with me rather than at home and vulnerable to looters, they could not reasonably process and return to me an approved 5320.20, so they would allow me to leave the state with my SBR without a 5320.20. I was told to keep my Form 1 close by and stay safe. I have yet to look for any statute/CFR/determination letter to support that advice, but it makes sense and I think it could reasonably be argued in court should I find myself arrested.

I was also very surprised that they actually answered the phone at 7:30AM on evacuation day. I expected to get no answer and a return call later, if at all.

 

[PEC-Memphis]

During the hurricane evacuation I was told by the ATF office in Columbia that, due to the declared state of emergency and mandatory evacuation, and the wisdom of keeping my SBR secure with me rather than at home and vulnerable to looters, they could not reasonably process and return to me an approved 5320.20, so they would allow me to leave the state with my SBR without a 5320.20. I was told to keep my Form 1 close by and stay safe. I have yet to look for any statute/CFR/determination letter to support that advice, but it makes sense and I think it could reasonably be argued in court should I find myself arrested.

I was also very surprised that they actually answered the phone at 7:30AM on evacuation day. I expected to get no answer and a return call later, if at all.

That's good information to have - thanks.

In addition to a telephone conversation, a quick email from the BATF&E office confirming the telephone conversation, would make me "feel better" if I were in your position. As always, having an approved Form 1 or 4 (as appropriate) with the Title II item is a must - in-state or out-of-state.

I've called our local office before, and they seemed confused about Title II firearms as well as 922r compliance.

 

[Bren]

Yes, it is. Anything less than 16" is considered an SBR unless you go with a 14.5" and have a 1.5 or larger FH pinned and welded. I'm building a Noveske Infidel currently and it has a 13.7" barrel. I'll be adding a Noveske KX5 FH pinned and welded by Adco to make it a legal 16".

I have never understood the reasoning there. You still have a 16" barrel, but you gave up a couple of inches of bore, some velocity and paid a lot more. Why?

 

[svtpwnz]

I have never understood the reasoning there. You still have a 16" barrel, but you gave up a couple of inches of bore, some velocity and paid a lot more. Why?

Honestly, for me it's just a cool factor/hobby. I've wanted an Infidel build for quite a while and decided to build one.

Even with a 10.3" barrel, there is plenty of velocity that I certainly don't want to be hit with one.

I have a number of carbines including full 16" barrels and they are all built for certain purposes. If I ever did find myself in a true SHTF scenario, I don't expect to be engaging any threats past 200 yards.

 

[Hef]

I have never understood the reasoning there. You still have a 16" barrel, but you gave up a couple of inches of bore, some velocity and paid a lot more. Why?

I have a 10.5" AR15, to which I plan to add a suppressor, so I will have a quieter rifle and with less flash using common FMJ ammo, but an OAL similar to a 16" rifle.

 

[Bren]

I have a 10.5" AR15, to which I plan to add a suppressor, so I will have a quieter rifle and with less flash using common FMJ ammo, but an OAL similar to a 16" rifle.

That makes perfect sense, because you are getting a benefit from the reduced barrel. getting a shorter barrel, then adding a flash suppressor to make it 16" doesn't make sense.

 

[Hef]

That makes perfect sense, because you are getting a benefit from the reduced barrel. getting a shorter barrel, then adding a flash suppressor to make it 16" doesn't make sense.

I'm doing a sound suppressor, not a flash suppressor. Did I fail to convey that? Sorry.

EDIT. I misunderstood you.