"New Shooter" as you say.

Young guy, or maybe someone who is quite a bit older??

In any case, he bears a lot of instruction and close watching...

PS: At first, I thought DQ was going to be a new Dairy Queen coming. Blizzards and ice cream sundaes for all my friends!

 

Not a young guy. Mid to late 60's shooting a 1911.

 

Can’t fix “stupid”

 

He was nervous. He'll get better next time (if he even comes back.) One of those game's rule book says something about being "an ambassador for the sport." Be patient with a new guy. Probably just extremely nervous, but a really competent guy any other time. Nerves can really work on some people.
Truth be known, I think most everyone has broken 180 at some point.

 

Yeah but do the get caught? I’ve had warnings, but never DQ. Its a hard call to make with 100% certainty unless its really flagrant. Which is what i tell my SOs. I wont make a 181 deg call, benefit of the doubt, SO is rarely in that perfect a position, but press the shot, yeah gotta call it. I think the 180 rule is the most often DQ.

 

When I used to "compete" my advice to new shooters was to go slow (hit the target) and follow the rules. You are here to learn "how to shoot a match" not win.

 

I saw a guy get DQ’d on the first stage of a classifier without even firing a shot. He had light strikes (or poorly seated primers) on his first few rounds, and the SO told him to holster up, but he reached down for one of the ejected rounds before unloading/holstering and flagged his own hand. His curiosity to see what was wrong was seemingly at the forefront of his mind, ahead of the safety rules. I felt bad for the guy, but it was a leaning opportunity for everyone who witnessed it.

 

I've seen several DQ's over the years. One I hated the most, was an IDPA state match. Shooting the staff through on Friday. Our first stage, RO says "unload, show clear, hammer down" and Bang. Evidently the shooter didn't rack out the round and the SO didn't see it in the chamber either. Shooter was DQ'd and had to stay and help the rest of the match. Felt bad for him and felt like the SO bore some of the responsibility for not verifying the chamber was empty before telling him to drop the hammer.

 

Yet sometimes the shooter will go faster than the SO commands, seen it more than once, issued a DQ once for that. New shooters are the worst because they are nervous & sometimes just go too fast,
last month as i was coming into a bay with my sq, i see a shooter on the other sq moving to a final position & his gun goes off, round over the berm. I am the MD at that club & my SO stopped him, waved me over for a chat, Shooters first match, he realized he needed to dump his last round to engage a reactive plate & then a clam shell. So he just sent it over the berm! Not a huge safety threat at our range, big mountain behind the berm, but I would not be doing another club MD any favors by letting him stay in the match. Hopefully he comes back, but I would hope with a new perspective.

 

Just last Saturday a very experienced shooter at the local USPSA match was DQ'd for an accidental discharge after changing a magazine on the fly. The SO had to think about it for a second but we all saw it. His gun was nowhere near pointing at a target; instead it was pointing at a barricade. The SO told him to stop and empty his magazine and chamber and re-holster, which he did.

There was some discussion, but the shooter admitted the discharge, so he packed up his gun and ran the clock or the tablet for the rest of the match. He chatted with some of the other shooters from the club. It was obvious he was well-known and well-liked, so this was just a humbling experience for him.

So far, I've never been disqualified, but just about every shooter knows it will (probably) happen if you shoot enough matches. I've been shooting mostly IDPA since 2005 and I've kept a hard copy of the results of every match ... just to see how far I've come and how far I have to go. I'll never win a match due to my age, my eyesight, lack of regular practice, training with an instructor and the fact that I shoot my CC gun with my CC holster. Bone stock is the way I go and I know it hampers my ability to score better. Lately I've been shooting one of my G26s.

But, so far, no DQs in my file folder.

 

There's only one rule for competition, and that is don't point your gun at me. And it doesn't matter if the shooter is brand new or a 30 year GM. And there is no sympathy for anyone with attitude. There is no discussion for a DQ, the only voice that counts is the RO. Fact is those kind of people should not be attached to a real gun, an AirSoft is all they can handle.

If a guy is reaching for an ejected round, before the RO issues the "if you are finished, unload and show clear "(shooter is responsible for clear), "If clear, hammer down, holster", "Range is Clear" (The Range is never safe, it's only clear). That is an unsafe action and automatic DQ. Nothing to discuss.

The RO does not bear any responsibility for the unload show clear command, that is 100% squarely on the shooter. However there is no requirement to stay around and help, go ahead and go home if you want. You probably have a really hard time getting into a squad the next time around....

G29 "You can't fix stupid" Absolutely correct. And being "kind" to them doesn't help either. They are the ones that should apologize to the RO and the squad for ****ing up.

 

I SO 30-40 matches a year, local,& sanctioned, i think i’ve seen just about every DQ scenario possible. I can often watch a new shooter & see the DQ coming. In a local match i’ll try to head it off as i see it unfold. In a sanctioned match, you just let it happen & issue the DQ.
i am a SOI for idpa. I try teaching the mindset to be a good SO. Part of that is being forceful but polite. On his first bend over with his gun in hand, it should get a loud STOP. Then an explaination to take care of the gun before anything else. If it happens again, he gets the warning for DQ, 3rd time gone. I dont like to DQ shooters but safety issues require enforcement.

 

I'm much less tolerant than Fred as I have eye witnessed 3 deaths and multiple gunshot wounds in the last 54 years of training and competition. One particularly horrific death was a public shooter fired an AR-10 at the top of a berm, at a clay on the upright post, hit a bolt/nail, deflected and instantly killed a competition shooter on the next bay over. We stopped the AR-10 guy at gunpoint, until the Riverside Sheriff arrived. Clearly negligent, but the DA did not go for unintentional homicide. It was settled out of court. But this is the kind of shooter that doesn't belong on any range, anywhere, or should even be allowed to tough a gun.

 

I dont think its a matter of being tolerant but paying attention to the new shooter at a match & coaching so to speak. Everyone is new & being firm but fair works. I wont call something I think I see & that is how I run my SO in a match. It either happened or it did not, there is no "I think I saw it".
The story I believe you related to happened out at Raahgus. I think part of that issue was the range setup, it begged for such an accident if a round went over the berm for any reason. I have seen ND quiet often, it almost always is a DQ, like 99.9% of the time. The 1/10% is when the ND actually hits the target or the berm at the target height..
One reason I shun public ranges, indoor or out is the average shooter that shows up is mostly a moron. Range supervision can be sketchy at most public places. Even in some private ranges, I have backed off the line & waited for unsafe shooters to clear the line before returning. We can only do so much as shooters without risking escalation. Its up to range safety staff to rigorously enforce safety rules. I have pointed out safety issues at ranges only to be told to F-off. So I just go sit & wait for the accident. No I wont do first aid, even though I am qualified. You cant fix stupid, but you can make it hurt.

 

Agreed. You who have taken the SO training deserve all the credit in the world for taking the time and actually READING the entire rule book(s). I have a hard enough time reading the IDPA manual, but recently I've taken a gander at the USPSA rules and it's more than a challenge. Kudos to you all.

 

Knowing the rule book is certainly important but understanding how to run a stage & interact with shooters is very important. I have been involved in almost 350 local & sanctioned idpa events, along with a handful of uspsa over the last 10y. I have had my share of the Nazi SO & it sucks to pay $$ to have some dick abuse you because he is a SO, or just as bad, not actually know the rules. Most high end competitors know the rules better than the SO.

 

One reason I shun public ranges, indoor or out is the average shooter that shows up is mostly a moron.

YUP!

 

I have had my share of the Nazi SO & it sucks to pay $$ to have some dick abuse you because he is a SO, or just as bad, not actually know the rules. Most high end competitors know the rules better than the SO.

Yes, and in USPSA there is no "opinion". When you DQ someone you have to check the box on practiscore for the actual rule they were DQ'd under. You can't just say I didn't like that, NO! What rule did you violate...

 

I have had my share of the Nazi SO & it sucks to pay $$ to have some dick abuse you because he is a SO, or just as bad, not actually know the rules. Most high end competitors know the rules better than the SO.

Yes, and in USPSA there is no "opinion". When you DQ someone you have to check the box on practiscore for the actual rule they were DQ'd under. You can't just say I didn't like that, NO! What rule did you violate...

No what meant was the SO thinks he saw finger on the trigger or thinks he saw a 185. It happened or it didn't, dont guess.

 

I have pointed out safety issues at ranges only to be told to F-off. So I just go sit & wait for the accident. No I wont do first aid, even though I am qualified. You cant fix stupid, but you can make it hurt.

Yup Yup and Yup. Ain't my gun, ain't my drugs, ain't even my pants, dat my room mates pants...

 

Yes, correct, to know it you have to see it to be sure.