[steve4102]

Lol. I have a Speer manual. And an accurate printout. Also have hhogdon data printed out from the net.

I suppose I could buy another manual.

Speer does not list 165gr or TG.

Hodgdon does not list 165gr.

Accurate does not distribute TG so there will never be any TG data from them.

I asked in post #4, where you got your data from, I will ask again.

I also asked if you worked up to your Over Max load of 6.8gr, I will ask that again?

 

[Colorado4Wheel]

Hodgon List 7.2 gr for a XTP in 155 gr.
And
6.0 grs for the 180 gr JHP. So it's got to be in the 6.6 grs range as a max charge.

But thats is only a guess and guessing is not what you do when you are loading a max charge especially with a fast powder.

 

[WeeWilly]

I could switch to longshot. Have some of that as well....

I think you will find Longshot a terrific powder to replicate the Underwood performance levels in 10mm.

Not sure what Rainier sets as their speed limit, some of the plated mfg's set a 1200-1250 fps speed limit, which obviously will be insufficient for max effort 165gr loads using Longshot. I would think 1400fps (G20 length barrel and longer) would be well within reach using Longshot and 165gr slugs, so maybe check with Rainier before going whole hog.

For Longshot loads, I would use mid-range 180gr loads from Hodgdon as my start point. Lots of good Longshot data over in the stickies of the 10mm reloading section.

 

[steve4102]

I could switch to longshot. Have some of that as well. I take no offense to anything. Don't worry about that at all guys.

Hhogdon goes to 7.2 for a 155 gr bullet. 6.8 felt good in this however sounds like you gents are concerned about burn rate. Later today I will switch to a longshot load and see where that takes me.

I can find no 10MM data with 165gr bullets and longshot. Without tested data you will be guessing, again.

 

[WeeWilly]

I can find no 10MM data with 165gr bullets and longshot. Without tested data you will be guessing, again.

It is perfectly safe to start with 180gr data and work up using normal load workup process.

 

[Colorado4Wheel]

Never understood the desire for anything lighter then a 180gr bullet in 10mm.

You can also use the lighter and heavier data points to find a reasonable starting and end point.

 

[WiskyT]

Another possibility for the OP is to use 40 data.

 

[WiskyT]

Never understood the desire for anything lighter then a 180gr bullet in 10mm.

You can also use the lighter and heavier data points to find a reasonable starting and end point.

I never understood the desire to have a bullet going 100 fps faster than the 40SW.

As far as the 165 components being the way they are, the OP might not have had a choice.

 

[Colorado4Wheel]

It's because Bears are scary. So you need a 10mm.

 

[steve4102]

It is perfectly safe to start with 180gr data and work up using normal load workup process.

Maybe, but the Start charge of LS for the 180gr bullet is 1221fps. His 165gr plated bullets are rated at 1250fps max.

So, starting at 180gr Minimum will put him over 1250fps.

 

[WeeWilly]

Maybe, but the Start charge of LS for the 180gr bullet is 1221fps. His 165gr plated bullets are rated at 1250fps max.

So, starting at 180gr Minimum will put him over 1250fps.

So you are countering my point by making a point I made to the OP earlier, what a joke.

 

[steve4102]

So you are countering my point by making a point I made to the OP earlier, what a joke.

No joking matter.
First you said this.

Not sure what Rainier sets as their speed limit, some of the plated mfg's set a 1200-1250 fps speed limit, which obviously will be insufficient for max effort 165gr loads using Longshot. I would think 1400fps (G20 length barrel and longer) would be well within reach using Longshot and 165gr slugs, so maybe check with Rainier before going whole hog.

Then you said this.

It is perfectly safe to start with 180gr data and work up using normal load workup process.

Is it safe to load 165gr Plated bullets using 180gr data at velocities higher than recommended by the manufacturer or isn't it?

First you say be mindful of velocity, then you say, go ahead and load LS with 180 data abve recommended velocities, then you say my post is a joke.

Interesting.

 

[WeeWilly]

No joking matter.
First you said this.




Then you said this.



Is it safe to load 165gr Plated bullets using 180gr data at velocities higher than recommended by the manufacturer or isn't it?

First you say be mindful of velocity, then you say, go ahead and load LS with 180 data abve recommended velocities, then you say my post is a joke.

Interesting.

If you knew more it might be worth debating.

There is nothing unsafe about loading plated faster than what Rainier recommends. Accuracy might suffer but nothing unsafe about it.

Why not learn a few things before coming in with the lectures?

 

[Green Mountain Boy]

Fellas I don't want to fight. Bottom line is nothing blew up, accuracy was fine and recoil was not bad. I am not looking to replicate underwood at all. I commented earlier that the recoil felt similar to uw that is all.

I have 165 grain rainers, titegroup, aa#2, and longshot because that is what was available to me. I am lucky to find anything at all.

Based on the above I will be going with the bare minimum 180grain data and longshot and testing 20 of those tonight.

 

[Colorado4Wheel]

You could also use the midrange data for TiteGroup. Just lower the charge about 1 gr I would guess.

 

[Green Mountain Boy]

You could also use the midrange data for TiteGroup. Just lower the charge about 1 gr I would guess.

That is basically what I did for the 155 vs 165 just in reverse. I had data for a 155 grain xtp using titegroup. That data showed that it would take a minimum of 6.6 grains. I therefore surmised that 6.8 grains would be required for a 165 grain projectile.

It was my understanding that the rainers may loose some accuracy potenttial but were not going to be dangerous if moving a little too fast. Rainers sight states to use jacketed load data so I did.

I am not trying to hot rod or duplicate underwood. Just looking to use up 500 165 grain rainer rounds for a nice practice load and the 29.

 

[Colorado4Wheel]

That is basically what I did for the 155 vs 165 just in reverse. I had data for a 155 grain xtp using titegroup. That data showed that it would take a minimum of 6.6 grains. I therefore surmised that 6.8 grains would be required for a 165 grain projectile.

It was my understanding that the rainers may loose some accuracy potenttial but were not going to be dangerous if moving a little too fast. Rainers sight states to use jacketed load data so I did.

I am not trying to hot rod or duplicate underwood. Just looking to use up 500 165 grain rainer rounds for a nice practice load and the 29.

And that is where you went wrong. If a 155 takes 6.6 gr for a starting load the heavier 165 takes less powder not more. From Hodgon website the 180 gr would take a 5.4 gr starting charge. The 165 would fall in the middle at about 6gr and the max would fall in the middle at about 6.6 gr. All this is on Hodgon website which has really good data.

 

[Green Mountain Boy]

Ah the concept of a heavier bullet taking less powder is where I was messing up. Is that because of case volume?

 

[Colorado4Wheel]

Ah the concept of a heavier bullet taking less powder is where I was messing up. Is that because of case volume?

The heavier bullet creates more resistance so it builds pressure more quickly.

I think you now know why all of us are freaking out (figure of speech) and your like "seems fine to me". Your math was in the wrong direction. If your gonna go with a in between bullet weight it is always best to just print the heavier and the lighter data and look at them both and work it out based on both those data points.

 

[Green Mountain Boy]

The heavier bullet creates more resistance so it builds pressure more quickly.

I think you now know why all of us are freaking out (figure of speech) and your like "seems fine to me". Your math was in the wrong direction. If your gonna go with a in between bullet weight it is always best to just print the heavier and the lighter data and look at them both and work it out based on both those data points.

Fair enough. This is the first time I have ever not followed exact book data. So if I took 180 grain longshot data at a min of 8.5 what would you suggest as my start load for the 165?