Shoot it. If the group is where you are aiming, you're all set. No matter what the factory tells you the sights are set for, you have to shoot each individual gun before you carry to make sure where it's really zeroed. The last time I shot an Army-issued M9, the point of impact was at about a foot high and right of the aiming point at 50 yards - I'll bet that's not where Beretta said it was zeroed.

 

I don't recall any defense-oriented arms using picture 1 -- that's IMO for dedicated target pistols shooting at known distances where the 'pumpkin' is the inner rings (think typical NRA slow-fire target).
Glocks gen 1-4 use picture 2 with their default sight. Gen5 uses picture 3.

If you prefer the other, the easiest change is the front sight. An example: Glock part 47284 is the Ameriglo Bold sight for gen3-4 with .180" front, part 47285 is the same for gen5 with .200" front. Alternatively change the rears from 6.5mm (gen1-4) to 6.1mm (gen5) as Glock labels their stock sets. Taller front or shorter rear lowers POI. For drift use a sight pusher or cheap-o methods but I'm not responsible for broken tritium vials.

 

Choose what you prefer, shoot the gun. If it does not hit where you want it to, adjust or change the sights.

I don't concern myself with whatever ammo or sight picture the manufacturer used.

 

It would still be nice to have some idea what the manufacturer says the sight picture should look like. Most Glocks do not have adjustable sights.

 

What the maker says is irrelevant. Just shoot the gun and see how it prints for you. This is very simple for most shooters, and a bit more complex if you are using a wide range of ammo types.

Pick a distance to zero the gun at and decide how you want the sight picture to be, then do the math. If you're changing the rear sight, then you need to account for that before figuring out the front sight height.

As an example, I generally like my pistols to print so that all of the hits in a 20-yard group are directly above the post (theoretically the lowest hit is tangent to top of post).

 

You saved me a bunch of typing- thanks.

 

According to the article below, Glocks and Sigs are factory set to be combat hold. I have no idea if he's right or not. The article has pictures of each type of hold for anyone who doesn't already know what they are.

Sight Picture Holds and Concealed Carry Factors

And you should know which Sight Picture Hold works for you and your gun's iron sights. Here are the four basic types of Sight Picture Holds.

www.usacarry.com

 

I would have bet this is the case. Just my opinion, but combat hold makes the most sense, to me. It’s the only one where A) you know exactly where point of impact should be and B) you aren’t covering the point of impact with the sights (you can see the point of impact). All the other holds have some sort of guess work baked in, and I don’t like that, personally.

Obviously point of impact is dependent on distance. I wonder, is there a universally recognized distance at which combat hold should work for pistols? Any closer and it will hit low, any further and it will hit high (albeit not much if you’re within 15 yards or so).

 

I take every pistol I carry to the rangevand shoot it... Even if Glock suggested a particular hold, the ammo you are shoot might print elsewhere. What a manufacturer suggest is worthless to me. All I car about is the results I get at the range.

@9mmFireBall

 

That's a great question and I've never been able to find any documentation or legitimate information on what a new Glock, out of the box is set for.

I just set up my Glock 19 using my range bag as a rest and tried the best I could to tell what the correct or best hold position I could tell. I think mine is pretty close to center hold at about 7 yards and a little bit lower at 15 yards. That seems to work pretty well. My sights on my Glock 19 are not the basic factory sights but are Ameriglo sights that were installed at the factory before I bought it.

My Glock 44 has adjustable sights on it, and I tend to think I have it adjusted also for the same as the Glock 19.

 

@mavs Just change the sight(s). VERY easy to do

 

I was always told terms like 'dead on' (gun shoots to poa)
'Dead over' (gun shoots under poa)
'6 o Clock' (or target hold maybe?....gun shoots over poa specifically for bullseye type shooting)
'Sub 6' (also BE oriented, more white paper under bull helps refine sight picture)

 

Every GLOCK I have, that I’ve shot, came with the combat hold.

Same with Sigs.

 

For all my guns I use combat sight picture. This simplifies things and works for me at pistol range distances.

 

I've never seen anything official from Glock either way. The Armorer's Manual shows how to correct for different elevations using front sight height changes is about it.

In my experience, both Sig and HK use shoot the dot. Coming from HKs to Glocks, I like shoot the dot, so I pick Glock front sights so I can use the same hold; typically this is a 0.180" front. Same for Sigs, just put dot on target and press. I switched to dots on 2020 and kept everything the same.

Don't know about Beretta, S&W, etc. but would assume it depends on you, your ammo and the specific gun.

 

My Beretta 92, Glock Gen 2&3, 1911’s all are center hold.
My Glock 45 Gen 5 came as a “combat” hold and I swapped that out to center ASAP.
Sig 229 is combat hold so it just hangs out in the gun safe.

 

Don't you ever shoot them?

 

In my experience all my Glocks shot point of aim, point of impact
2 yrs ago, I bought a CZ P10c which was a great pistol, but it shot high...I called CZ...CS said it was factory zeroed for a target hold, not poa-poi

 

A "target hold".....can you explain that ?

 

the way I do mine is by shooting them ... after some rounds I know where my grouping is and adjust to shoot that piece accordingly.. I don't worry about point of aim until after the first 500 shots .... after that I can figure the gun aiming point... but that is my way of doing things.. I don't follow general rules as they sometimes don't seem to apply for individuals.

 

It has to do with target's distance. A 4yd "combat hold" becomes "target hold" at 25 yards.
Trajectory and line of sight aren't ever the same line, they just intersect a couple of instances somewhere, sometime.

GSSF Indoor competitions have a shooter firing at five different ranges out to 25 yards. It teaches you about adjusting your "holds."

 

Just be sure to hold it down range.

 

That's the "downrange hold"
It's an advanced hold not shown in any diagrams.

 

Shoot it. That's the best way. Sounds like a smart a** answer, but all weapons shoot different. Also, center hold for me might be different aiming point for you depending on how you hold your gun, our different body types, etc...

 

In all my experience shooting Handguns, All Guns Shoot the Same and you pull the trigger and the bullet comes out the front! I was trained on the Revolver and I carried one as my duty weapon for many Years and I had to qualify with this Handgun with Fixed Sights every year! I always used the same method shooting with fixed sights and it was the, "Dot the I" method! If I had a gun with Adjustable Sights, I always adjusted them to this Method so I was able to shoot all my guns the same way! Never a Problem for Me!

 

In all my 25 years owning and shooting Glocks and other handguns, Including Revolvers with fixed sights, and I have been using my sights the way I was taught from the beginning! I have always aimed with the front sight dot resting just bellow the Target and I think it's called, "Dot the I", if I'm not mistaken! I have been very successful shooting this way and I always qualified top in my class every year! Works for Me!

 

Do the gen 5 9mm only maintain combat sight picture with 147gr only? From what I’ve read on here it’s preference whether to get gen 4 or 5 sights. I want combat at 25y with 124 gr also.

 

Dawson hasn’t been making sights to order for 2 years. It’s whatever is in stock. Was just looking for an update on how it all averaged out. I think a lot of people know how to zero a pistol. Looking for comments from those who actually went through this process with gen 5s regarding the actual question I asked.Just out of curiosity.

 

How about what a Team S&W shooter explains?

 

No

 

Everybody's got their own preferences and experiences. Your choice of sights and loads may have an influence.

Since one of the drills I use at 4-7yds involves shooting small wooden clothespins, I have to have a decent grasp of POA/POI using the sights. To help reduce any reliance on any amount of vertical or horizontal 'slop', I position the clothespins at 3 different orientations around the edge of the cardboard backing. Vertical, horizontal and a 45 degree angle.

Presuming you aim at the middle of the clothespin:

Vertical allows a little wiggle room for front sight elevation technique.

Horizontal allows a little wiggle room for windage error.

The angled pin? It requires you aim exactly at the POI, no matter where on the pin you decide to aim, as there's no wiggle room for either elevation of windage error. Gotta hit the exact spot, which means you have to have a precise sight picture and understanding of how your sights are regulated.

When I still had fairly sharp eyes in my 50's, I was able to extend the clothespin drill out to 10yds on a good day. That made the width of the pins a lot narrower compared to the front post, when splitting the image of the little wooden pins using the top edge of the front post. Nowadays? I kept the drill to 4-5yds. sometimes maybe 7yds on a good day, in bright lighting.

I noticed a while back that some imported pins are smaller than the older American Made pins, too.

I used to us this drill to help other LE firearm instructor work on understanding and refining their POA/POI, as well as making sure their grip and trigger press control wasn't affecting their ability to maintain a proper sight alignment/picture follow-through throughout their trigger press.

It was especially helpful in refining the use of the basic fixed irons on snub revolvers. Easier for most of the instructors when they were able to use their favorite sight setups (dots, NS, fiber opt, all black, whatever). Confidence and experience, etc. The trick was to figure it out so they could exchange and use a different gun with different sights and still get their hits.

Most of the younger instructors who weren't around for the revolver days of LE have become quite used to the variable - and better - sighting options available for pistols nowadays, although the growing prevalence of RDS on duty weapons is introducing another factor. Hopefully, proper training for RDS-equipped guns will continue to require emphasis and the ability to default to the sights in the event the RDS becomes inop. Time will tell. Training can be ... variable.

 

Everybody's got their own preferences and experiences. Your choice of sights and loads may have an influence.

Since one of the drills I use at 4-7yds involves shooting small wooden clothespins, I have to have a decent grasp of POA/POI using the sights. To help reduce any reliance on any amount of vertical or horizontal 'slop', I position the clothespins at 3 different orientations around the edge of the cardboard backing. Vertical, horizontal and a 45 degree angle.

Presuming you aim at the middle of the clothespin:

Vertical allows a little wiggle room for front sight elevation technique.

Horizontal allows a little wiggle room for windage error.

The angled pin? It requires you aim exactly at the POI, no matter where on the pin you decide to aim, as there's no wiggle room for either elevation of windage error. Gotta hit the exact spot, which means you have to have a precise sight picture and understanding of how your sights are regulated.

I used to us this drill to help other LE firearm instructor work on understanding and refining their POA/POI, as well as making sure their grip and trigger press control wasn't affecting their ability to maintain a proper sight alignment/picture follow-through throughout their trigger press.

It was especially helpful in refining the use of the basic fixed irons on snub revolvers. Easier for most of the instructors when they were able to use their favorite sight setups (dots, NS, fiber opt, all black, whatever). Confidence and experience, etc. The trick was to figure it out so they could exchange and use a different gun with different sights and still get their hits.

Most of the younger instructors who weren't around for the revolver days of LE have become quite used to the variable - and better - sighting options available for pistols nowadays, although the growing prevalence of RDS on duty weapons is introducing another factor. Hopefully, proper training for RDS-equipped guns will continue to require emphasis and the ability to default to the sights in the event the RDS becomes inop. Time will tell. Training can be ... variable.

dude I just want to know if anyone has taken a 19x 19 gen5 or 45 and shot some 147 gr at 25 yards. How did it print for them? Where were they holding? That’s all. I’ll take that as a no. Lol

 

I prefer the center hold (see post #25), but in my experience if a pistol has front night sights it is designed for a combat hold - because it's the dot that you see at night and low light. At least for me.

 

And some, like the original Ashley Express, now XS, Dot sights were set up to have the POI in the middle of the front NS capsule out to approx 15yds. Once the range was extended to 25yds and beyond, the POI was at the top edge of the dot. (Left a bit of wiggle room between 15-25yds, but that's probably something to be determined and confirmed by each shooter.) I used to use my Big Dot sight on my short CS45 (.45/3.25") to ring steel out at 50yds, and I used the top edge of the big plastic ring as the POA.

Sight Images

xssights.com