The main rreason is safety. Revolvers don't need safeties because they have a 9 pound trigger pull and Glocks don't need safeties because they have what are called passive safeties but they also have a 5.5 pound trigger pull. 1911's need safeties because they have 4 pound (or less) trigger pulls. You wouldn't carry a 1911 cocked with the safety off and neither should you carry a Glock with a 4 pound trigger. And keep in mind that a 1911 has passive safeties as well, notably, a grip safety and theoretically should be safe to carry cocked with the safety off.

If it's possible to learn to shoot a DA revolver as accurately in double action mode as it can be fired in single action mode with the lighter trigger, but then it's even easier to learn how to shoot a Glock just as fast an accurately with a 5 or 5.5 pound trigger as with a 4 pound trigger.

There is no need to "customize" a Glock trigger. You just need to learn how to shoot the gun.

 

The main rreason is safety. Revolvers don't need safeties because they have a 9 pound trigger pull and Glocks don't need safeties because they have what are called passive safeties but they also have a 5.5 pound trigger pull. 1911's need safeties because they have 4 pound trigger pulls. You wouldn't carry a 1911 cocked with the safety off and neither should you carry a Glock with a 4 pound trigger. And keep in mind that a 1911 has passive safeties as well, notably, a grip safety and theoretically should be safe to carry cocked with the safety off.

If it's possible to learn to shoot a DA revolver as accurately in double action mode as it can be fired in single action mode with a ligher trigger, then it's even easier to learn how to shoot a Glock just as fast an accurately with a 5 or 5.5 pound trigger as with a 4 pound trigger.

There is no need to "customize" a Glock trigger. You just need to learn how to shoot the gun.

I won't try to sway you...but if it is a edc or sd platform, the closer it remains to factory stock, the easier it will be for your defense attorney

I'll tell you the same thing I say to everyone that feels the need to monkey around with a SD weapon; Don't. A Glock comes with a trigger that is 5.5 - 6.2lbs which is light enough and probably too light (which is why the term 'Glock leg' came into existence). My first duty weapon was a DA revolver with a 12lb trigger pull. We qualified out to 50 yards. It wasn't a big deal because we knew how to properly shoot a gun. I don't say that to be mean or be a smart-ass. But the simple fact is that too many people don't really know how to shoot a pistol. I say that as an instructor with over 30 years of experience. If a Glock trigger isn't comfortable...you need to do some manual labor and toughen up your hand/finger. If it's too heavy...you need to hit the gym. Again, not trying to sound mean or be a smart-ass. But if 5.5lbs is too tough for you then there are other issues than the trigger at play. I'll put it to you this way; can you easily make head shots at 25-35 yards with a stock Glock trigger and solid COM shots out to 50+yards? If you can't the answer isn't to waste your money on unnecessary impulse crap, it's buy some ammo, some mags and take some training classes. Monkeying around with the internals doesn't make up for lack of skill. So the practical reasons are; makes the gun safer, you don't have to monkey around with internals to make up for lack of skill, and saves you money that should be spent on training.

OP, please take the time to read what these guys wrote. I couldn't agree more with them. The only trigger modifications I make are to replace the factory coil spring with a Glock (OEM) NY1 trigger spring and I replace the stock connector with a Glock (OEM) minus connector. This DOES NOT lighten my trigger pull. What it does is give me a more reliable trigger spring and removes "the wall" for a pull more like a revolver pull that is straight through the break. In my opinion, installing aftermarket parts and or making the pull lighter is asking for trouble in many ways. But its your gun and those are your problems to solve. Just curious, what made you come and post here asking for this advice?

 

More importantly, you need to convince yourself.

 

I won't try to sway you...but if it is a edc or sd platform, the closer it remains to factory stock, the easier it will be for your defense attorney

 

This is the go to fear mongering internet argument forever. Please cite one case where the trigger pull weight or performance modifications made one bit of difference in a good shoot case.

 

I'll tell you the same thing I say to everyone that feels the need to monkey around with a SD weapon; Don't. A Glock comes with a trigger that is 5.5 - 6.2lbs which is light enough and probably too light (which is why the term 'Glock leg' came into existence). My first duty weapon was a DA revolver with a 12lb trigger pull. We qualified out to 50 yards. It wasn't a big deal because we knew how to properly shoot a gun. I don't say that to be mean or be a smart-ass. But the simple fact is that too many people don't really know how to shoot a pistol. I say that as an instructor with over 30 years of experience. If a Glock trigger isn't comfortable...you need to do some manual labor and toughen up your hand/finger. If it's too heavy...you need to hit the gym. Again, not trying to sound mean or be a smart-ass. But if 5.5lbs is too tough for you then there are other issues than the trigger at play. I'll put it to you this way; can you easily make head shots at 25-35 yards with a stock Glock trigger and solid COM shots out to 50+yards? If you can't the answer isn't to waste your money on unnecessary impulse crap, it's buy some ammo, some mags and take some training classes. Monkeying around with the internals doesn't make up for lack of skill. So the practical reasons are; makes the gun safer, you don't have to monkey around with internals to make up for lack of skill, and saves you money that should be spent on training.

 

I agree with everything you said. I had one Gen5 trigger I couldn't warm up to (which I sold rather than mess with), but all my other Gen3 and Gen4 pistols were good as is.

 

Stock trigger is more reliable is my reasoning.

 

I'm sitting here holding a Taran tactical striker spring debating on if I want to use it. What kind of ammo have you used with it? Different kinds?

 

I appreciate the replies because in all honesty I want to know what all the facts are to consider when I get to the point where I'm done with my exploration. @Deputy Dave . I appreciate your thoughtful reply, but as a guitar player my fingers are pretty tough. But they have a lot more tactice sense than the average guy on the street because of it. But of all the OEM trigger shoes of all the brands I've ever tried, Glock makes the suckiest shoes ever. I thought that when I first tried a Glock in 1987 and feel the same today. The safety design of the shoe is out of the 80's too, using a long takeup to make up for a weak safety lever. I've decided on MUCH better designed shoe, though I use a standard trigger bar. Trigger shoes aside, I'm trying to evaluate exactly what you're saying as far as staying OEM with most of the internals. I've gone back and forth between the Taran Connector and the OEM connector and they contribute to the same trigger pull weight and are very, very similar... except that the Taran connectors are made much cleaner and feel a bit smoother and break a bit cleaner. Put them side by side and you couldn't tell the difference unless you got a magnifying glass, then it would be obvious. You know Taran Butler is't going to put out crap parts.

So now it's down to deciding on how much trigger pull weight is going to serve me best in a defensive situation. I won't go lower than 4 pounds for sure. But in a SHTF situation is a 5 pound pull where I'm probably mashing the trigger going to be any less safe or more safe than 4 pounds? Whatever I have installed I will train with and become proficient with. But other than the DA of the S/W 586 I just traded with under 8 pound pull and probably 2.5 pound SA, my 3.5 pound 1911 and the PPKs with 12 pound DA (that hated so much I rarely shot) everything I've ever owned has been super light. I've got a WWII CZ 24 with a 2.5 pound trigger that was carried by a Nazi officer. Great gun, but very crude safety. So 4 pounds is on the heavy side compared to what i've shot for the last 30 years, hence my question.



My practice ammo is Mag-Tech ball ammo. Not sure of the bullet grain and power. My defense ammo is Federal HST 147 grain. I have 1000 rounds of another brand that I can't remember the name of, but I'm not into that batch yet. Taran makes good stuff. I prefer his connector to the OEM one, though as I mentioned above extremely similar. What's the pound rating on the Taran spring?

More important than the weight, IMO (but who am I?), is the quality of the trigger. I want it smooth, no grit. A clearly defined wall and clear reset. The break after the wall doesn't have to be "like a glass rod", but it too should be clean. That said, I like heavier triggers. Even my 1911s were 4.5-5.5#, on purpose.

One thing to remember is that the rated weights on a Glock are nominal, and can vary by as much as a pound depending on where you measure it.

Next thing to remember on your Glock is that some people get their lighter triggers with a lessened engagement on the cruciform. I require a 100% engagement on mine. If you have dropped in an inspection plate and checked yours, do so.

All that out of the way, there's nothing wrong with a 4#+ trigger on a Glock. If you want 4.75, fine. I honestly doubt you'll know the difference when the adrenaline dump comes in.

I am sort of in the same mind set, though my 1911 is 3.5 pounds. Several decades ago I gave it to a reputable local gunsmith, told him to put adjustable sights on it and make the trigger good. Never thought twice about it. We didn't have the internet back then so the subject never came up. But yes... i want a smooth pull, clean break and crisp fast reset and a comfortable shoe (not that POS shoe that Glock ships with all its pistols). But it's funny, when I go to the range, other than the Glock shoe dingus reminding me that it's there on every shot before I changed it out, there are a lot of things that I'm not aware of, being focused on the task rather than on the pistol. Perhaps the next trip I'll throw the OEM spring back in and see if I notice that it's heavier. But because everything is so smooth I doubt that I'll get more than 4.5 pounds, certainly under 5. And that cruciform... The Johnny Glock bar has more engagement than the OEM Glock bar, but also caused more trigger creep. No safety issues with either bar that I can tell so I stayed with the OEM bar.

I appreciate the replies and have considered the thoughts of each and every one. Looking forward to seeing more thoughts on this.

 

More important than the weight, IMO (but who am I?), is the quality of the trigger. I want it smooth, no grit. A clearly defined wall and clear reset. The break after the wall doesn't have to be "like a glass rod", but it too should be clean. That said, I like heavier triggers. Even my 1911s were 4.5-5.5#, on purpose.

One thing to remember is that the rated weights on a Glock are nominal, and can vary by as much as a pound depending on where you measure it.

Next thing to remember on your Glock is that some people get their lighter triggers with a lessened engagement on the cruciform. I require a 100% engagement on mine. If you have dropped in an inspection plate and checked yours, do so.

All that out of the way, there's nothing wrong with a 4#+ trigger on a Glock. If you want 4.75, fine. I honestly doubt you'll know the difference when the adrenaline dump comes in.

 

Well if you accidently shot someone and the light trigger was in part at fault - maybe you would have a legal problem. That is a stretch. If you follow basic gun safety it wouldn't happen - if you don't follow basic gun practices it would happen anyway.

But it is hard for me to see if you shoot a mugger attacking you with a knife that what spring you had in the trigger would matter. He used a light spring in the trigger - he was just out looking for someone to KILL!!!

I leave my SD guns pretty much stock - I don't think a slightly lighter trigger is going to matter at all if I am in a SD shooting.

 

What kind of girl man needs a lighter trigger? Get you ass to the gym if the stock trigger is too heavy.

 

If you want a nice, meaning lightweight and super short reset, factory trigger you don't have to do anything to, then just get a Canik. Out of the box at a super crisp 4 lb. Shorter reset than a Glock.

Moral of the story is one of the reasons I got rid of the Caniks was because the triggers were too light, and my intention for these was truck gun. Meaning that I may actually have to use it for SD in a high stress situation at some point. Side effect was that it would mess me up when going back to Glocks...and Glocks are my primary SD choices for everything else. Then going back to the Canik would yield unintentional double taps when shooting moderately fast. I like the comfort of sitting at that wall on a Glock trigger transitioning between targets and is second nature to me.

You can do whatever you want with your trigger, I don't care one way or another, but you're responsible for each shot and the consequences thereafter. Train accordingly, whatever you choose to do.

 

What kind of shooting do you do? You talk about defensive shooting, but does your current practice involve anything other than slow shooting, from a fixed position, at a static target? You might consider shooting some sort of action pistol competition - being under the simulated stress of a timer can really change your perspective.

Also, do you ever dry fire? You don't need to waste a bunch of money on ammo to get to know your trigger very well. It doesn't have to be a "great" trigger for you to use it expertly, you just need to know what to expect.

 

After reading your response to the advice, it sounds like you are looking for your version of a perfect striker trigger. The Glock is a simple firearm with minimal parts and while its not polished and fine tuned like a 1911 it is boringly reliable and combat ready. Based on the guns I've shot and what you are looking for I think you should get out and rent a Canik TP9 Elite SC at a range somewhere. I think another member suggested Canik also. My buddy bought one for his first CCW pistol and we had a recent range day together. Remember, I use the NY1 and minus connector. I don't have the exact weight but I'd guess my pull is 5.5 lbs. The very first shot I took with his Canik I placed it on the bench, looked over to my buddy and said "this is WAY too light for CCW!" He said "I knew you'd say that".

Point is, it is really light feeling to ME. You said you've always had lighter triggers on your guns. I think you'd be better off going with a different platform rather than trying to tune a Glock to what you want it to be. Based on what I've read of your posts, I suspect you would really like the Canik pull and reset, if you can find one in stock these days. Best of luck to you.

 

I bought the TP9 ELITE SC and had the exact same reaction. The trigger was uncomfortably light for my taste, given that I was planning to use it as my EDC. Plus that gun is very chunky. I think it's 1.45 inches wide.

I sold the Canik and stuck with my 43x for EDC

 

I got 2 parts on this, myself and then general info.

I’ll go with Kentucky (fan?) on this one for the personal aspect: if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, the trigger pull on a Glock isn’t that bad (I think it’s fine). The trigger reset is pretty short so after the 1st shot the follow up shots are pretty short trigger pulls. And I was a security contractor and we weren’t allowed to modify our weapons and we all did fine. I don’t recommend not see a need to make a trigger pull lighter than a Glock. Yes I’ve shot guns that have lighter ones and that’s how they were designed and built, but I don’t see a reason to intentionally lessen the trigger weight.

now, shooter specific, someone may want a heavier trigger. Maybe they have tendency to jerk their finger or whatever and the extra weight helps them? As an example the Glock sights don’t work for me. Yes I can shoot it and pass qual courses, but night sights or 3 dot sights work better for me. Different aspect but an illustration of differences in shooters.

 

Johnny does the 2.0 - 2.5, hats off to him for this work

 

Johnny Glock knows his Glocks. Unlike most parts sellers he goes into great length to educate folks about Glocks' functions; what makes them safe and unsafe. IMO he has done more research dedicated to Glock than any other brand/seller/guy I have heard of. If there are any questions about his stuff you can call him directly, which I have done on a few occasions. While I understand the thoughts behind the "only stock Glock" thinking, I can see that Johnny has thought the system out thoroughly and keeps refinining his products. The flat face shoe is genius and I don't think the benefits of it are truly disclosed.

The one thing about his flat face shoe is that he has built in extra safety while building in efficiency. Glock OEM shoes rely on a long first trigger pull with a weak, thin safety lever that sticks out enough which makes a cheap design and manufacture reliable. What Johnny did was create a shoe with a beefy safety lever that needs to be pushed in flush a full 1/8" with a 1 pound pull to depress the lever. You get immediate feedback that you're on the trigger, but not so much as to disturb anything, then the takeup to the wall is efficient. And while some have rightly stated that Glock has a short reset, JG's shoe has an overtravel adjustment that makes the reset shorter and crisper, but again makes the finger movement more efficient. Trigger pull weight is then managed through whatever striker spring you have installed. In other words, he's tranferred the safety of the long Glock pull to the safety lever with an infinitely more comfortable face than a stock Glock shoe. And the serrations??? What was Glock thinking? The smooth face shoe that Glock puts in their other models is far better than what's in the 43x/48.

@vindibona1
Your are either not listening or you've already made up your mind. GT'ers are telling you that Glock stock triggers are about safely, reliability, and SD and they are correct.
It's okay to want a hair trigger - just not good for SD.

I don't see 4 pounds as "hair trigger". Other than DA, 4 pounds is the heaviest trigger I've ever had on a pistol. You should see the trigger on my CZ24 which was an EDC for a Nazi officer. 2.5 pounds. Now THAT is a hair trigger and rarely gets shot and never gets carried.

Let me see if I can get you to understand the basis of this and most of my questions. It revolves around my learning style and general goals:
"Assuming is not knowing. Knowing is NOT the same as understanding. Wisdom can not occur without understanding."
Let me upt it in terms that that I learned as a salesmen. There are "features" and there are benefits. For one to truly evaluate any product or service we need to know how the features translate to benefits. On the spectrum there is a lighter trigger pull and a heavier trigger pull. There is stock and there is "refined". I know what I've preferred as a shooter over the last 30 years and I had what i had in terms of firearms but they were what they were without my ability to modify and not enough information to question. ,But having never owned a Glock I need to reevaluate. HOW WILL A HEAVIER TRIGGER PULL, OR EVEN STOCK BENEFIT ME AS OPPOSED TO HAVING A MORE REFINED TRIGGER SYSTEM??? I am trying to get to a place of full understanding. My brain is constantly in the heavy learning mode and while some folks will ignorantly call it "over-thinking" it is more like deep learning. Glock is a conundrm of sorts. On one hand they produce a stock pistol made of rough, cheap parts in a modular design which begs to be refined. Why does Glock put crappy sights on their pistols? Why are Glock internals unpolished and unrefined? Why do we need to do a 25¢ trigger job on a 25¢ trigger (call the shoe what it is- a cheap POS)? Why is Glock still on the handgun best seller list when other brands stock model need little or no refinement, parts replacement or modification?

The logical follow up question for you would be "So why did you buy a Glock in the first place"? My answer isn't so simple. But the 43x/48 felt better in my hands than like brands/models. And it was the only one in that category/genre that was available at the time when I was trying to do a trade deal and got a fair price for a trade-in. In retrospect, in some ways perhaps from a financial perspective it was the wrong choice because the cost at the time was almost $600 and for that kind of bread a CZ P-10S might have been a better choice that would have been great stock. However as I said, the only pistol in that category was the only one available with the deal I was trying to swing. The LGS in the area had poor selections, tried to rip off the trade or had empty shelves altogether.

But getting back to the point of this thread, while I know I am not going back to a stock Glock shoe, I want to know if there is a solid reason for me to move to a heavier striker spring for a heavier pull? The Glock system isn't that mysterious once you know how all the parts need to work in harmony 100% of the time. All of that can be checked an confirmed to be as reliable or more reliable than stock. I think my question largely revolves around the human and if another half or 3/4 pound of pull (which is the heaviest I'll get with all stock other than the shoe) is going to make any difference at all when adrenaline is pumping in that situation that will demand your participation?

 

I see you’re looking for a good debate with this one. Interested to see where it goes. Lots of Canik love here but they’re just clones. Walther, HK, and FN have great striker fired. That said Glock has a huge aftermarket and I believe modding is okay as long as it remains 100% reliable. Not sure I like a short pull though without external safeties though as borg spoke of 😉

 

A lot of folks proclaim "I only shoot stock Glocks". And while there are many reasons for taking that approach ...

I don't really care what your trigger pull is.

 

@vindibona1
Your are either not listening or you've already made up your mind. GT'ers are telling you that Glock stock triggers are about safely, reliability, and SD and they are correct.
It's okay to want a hair trigger - just not good for SD.

 

In a stress situation, most folks with a handgun are going to grab their pistol, and at some point they may try to "get ready" by putting their finger on the trigger (indexing). Yes, even those of you that have trained to NOT do that may do it (stress sometimes makes us do strange things).

When things get tense, humans lose both sensitivity and fine motor skills in their fingers. When you try to "place" your finger on a light trigger in a tense situation, without a manual thumb safety in the On-Safe position, you may well trigger a shot before you feel the trigger and before you intend to shoot. The weight of your trigger action must be a balance between shootability for when you WANT to shoot, against safety from unintentional discharges under stress when you DON'T want to shoot.

Borg Warner mention above that DA revolver shooters got along fine with long, heavy trigger actions for many years (nay, decades), with excellent accuracy (on the range, at least). As an old PPC DA revolver shooter, I lean toward the same point of view.

As Sam Spade said, above, a clean trigger is more important than a light one, and clean-but-stock preserves the heavier pull weight for safety purposes. All of my carry Glocks use factory-weight triggers/connectors, but a few of them have been cleaned-up to reduce grittiness. For defensive use, they all work just fine, and a lighter trigger would not increase practical accuracy for that use.

.

 

In a stress situation, most folks with a handgun are going to grab their pistol, and at some point they may try to "get ready" by putting their finger on the trigger (indexing). Yes, even those of you that have trained to NOT do that may do it (stress sometimes makes us do strange things).

When things get tense, humans lose both sensitivity and fine motor skills in their fingers. When you try to "place" your finger on a light trigger in a tense situation, without a manual thumb safety in the On-Safe position, you may well trigger a shot before you feel the trigger and before you intend to shoot. The weight of your trigger action must be a balance between shootability for when you WANT to shoot, against safety from unintentional discharges under stress when you DON'T want to shoot.

Borg Warner mention above that DA revolver shooters got along fine with long, heavy trigger actions for many years (nay, decades), with excellent accuracy (on the range, at least). As an old PPC DA revolver shooter, I lean toward the same point of view.

As Sam Spade said, above, a clean trigger is more important than a light one, and clean-but-stock preserves the heavier pull weight for safety purposes. All of my carry Glocks use factory-weight triggers/connectors, but a few of them have been cleaned-up to reduce grittiness. For defensive use, they all work just fine, and a lighter trigger would not increase practical accuracy for that use.

.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. At this point I'm trying to determine if I want to increase the trigger pull weight, and probably will do that by reinstalling the OEM striker spring.

I agree entirely about the making sure you don't shoot from stress having lost some tactile sensitivity through stress. But here's the thing... There's more than one way to accomplish that. I've selected the Johnny Glock flat face shoe because it considers the human condition as well within the design. Unfortunately the one feature/benefit that is totally unsung is how his safety lever produces a resistance that works in lieu of excess travel of a Glock OEM shot. While one pound is far too light for a trigger pull, one pound is plenty on a safety lever to know that you're "on the trigger". It's almost like a 3 stage pull (with OEM/Taran connector). First stage: Pull the safety lever in 1/8" (with 1 pound pressure for safety lever alone) [total pull on my 1911 is 1/8"]. Second stage: Short pull to the wall. Third stage: striker break (with whatever rated poundage it's set up to break at). While one can train to shoot excellently with a 100% Glock trigger system, the shoe design and interface is simply (IMO) inefficient and the human safety element is easily duplicated, but with a more efficient design. Obviously all 3rd party shoes are not created equal. And while many 3rd party shoe producers have good reputations, there are none that go to the extent of educating Glock shooters about how their handgun functions as does Johnny Glock. I recommend his videos to anyone interested in learning how all the parts of their Glock work together.

I guess all I am saying is that while going bone stock is an easy, dependable and reliable answer, that doesn't preclude a better, more efficient, just as safe or safer design by 3rd parties. But it goes without saying, do your homework and due diligence when changing parts. All the parts in the sub-system must work 100% in harmony.

 

When it comes to any weapon used for SD -reliability first and foremost

At any match almost all of the malfunctions have one thing in common, modifications to improve either the trigger or the recoil impulse.

A DNF on a USPSA stage is one thing, but in a life or death situation the difference between a 3 and a 5 pound trigger is not something you’re going to notice, but a malfunction is something you would notice

 

You’ll shoot your wiener off.

 

 

I’m sure the guy in my squad at the OK State Championship (IDPA) last weekend wishes he had a heavier trigger after he sent one over the berm and got DQ’ed on the 4th stage of the day. Now one could rightfully argue that his main issue was moving with his finger on the trigger, but it still illustrates that a lighter trigger can be a safety concern if other safety procedures or systems are missing/ignored/defeated. I would also point out that there are masters in the sport shooting stock Glocks. The trigger isn’t as big a deal as many make it out to be. A trigger can certainly be too heavy, but 5.5 is plenty “light” on a defensive pistol. I’ve not been in the situation, but I imagine I won’t be thinking about walls or creep or reset when my life is in danger. No, that trigger is getting slapped, hard, and I won’t even be feeling it. Not good for “marksmanship” but assuming defensive distances, it won’t matter. Heck, at those distances I won’t remember seeing sights.

 

I’m sure the guy in my squad at the OK State Championship (IDPA) last weekend wishes he had a heavier trigger after he sent one over the berm and got DQ’ed on the 4th stage of the day. Now one could rightfully argue that his main issue was moving with his finger on the trigger, but it still illustrates that a lighter trigger can be a safety concer ...

Thanks for mentioning your buddy in the competition. To be honest, I wasn't aware of what the IDPA was specifically, but I looked it up quickly scrolled through the rules to see for myself what it was about. A lot of that stuff has been incorporated into my regular tactical class.How light was the trigger in his pistol? One of the things in the IDPA guide is that the finger should be off the trigger until sights are on target. This was obviously a faux pas on your buddy's part. Would an extra 1/2 pound or a pound have changed the situation?

 

Go ask your question here...

GATE Self-Defense Forum

This Go Ask The Expert forum covers all aspects of self-defense.

www.glocktalk.com

 

Go ask your question here...

GATE Self-Defense Forum

This Go Ask The Expert forum covers all aspects of self-defense.

www.glocktalk.com

Thanks for the link. Very helpful in lots of areas. In it there was a discussion of "manufacturers minumum duty pull weight" and so I went on a search about Glock. In searching through the links I came across this link: Handgun Mag- How light is too light

I think it addresses the issue in a broad way that folks can ponder for themselves and has some wisdom that some might agree or disagree with. I'd like to highlight a few of the statements and perhaps we can talk about them. I had to chuckle when I googled Glock's "manufacturers minumum duty pull weight" and it says 6-7 pounds because bone stock only brought the pull weight up to 5.5 pounds which dropped to 5 pounds after just polishing their cheapskate parts. I'd have to put NY/NY+ springs in my 43x to get it up to 6 pounds. While I've gotten my 43x down as low as 3.25 pounds I found no reason at all for a sub 4 pound pull, even if using it for a range gun and plan to trainBut after reading the article some of this (seeming idiocracy) started to make sense. I've copied most of the article and highlighted and shrunken parts fo the text to keep things in context and underscore the main points.


Excerpts from Handgun Mag...
"Some well-known gun writers have made their bones writing about how no carry gun should EVER have a trigger pull under 4 pounds. I have continually insisted that a trigger pull so heavy it affects your ability to hit the target quickly is not something to be praised. But how light is too light?

Why has 4 pounds become the carry standard? Why not 5, or 4.5 or 4.2379? It is an arbitrary whole number that was chosen because when you start dealing with triggers lighter than 4 pounds in the hands of people who are incapable of keeping their fingers off the trigger, you get negligent discharges.

I, however, don't think everyone should handicap themselves because some people are idiots. You are either following safe gunhandling rules, or you aren't. If your training is sorely lacking, and/or you never practice, you are unsafe with any weight trigger pull.

The standard Glock trigger pull (with a 5.5-lb connector) runs around 6-7 pounds, but that was WAY too light for some police departments whose officers were sorely undertrained, and had more than several instances of negligent discharges. This situation led to the New York and New York Plus Glock triggers.
Instead of improving the training of these officers, the department instead put really heavy triggers in their Glocks. I've spent some time behind Glocks burdened with these triggers, and as far as I'm concerned they don't make the pistols safer. They make the pistols more unsafe. What do I mean by that?
When you put a trigger that heavy in a pistol, you have made it much harder to shoot fast and accurately. You are almost guaranteeing the officers saddled with that atrocity will miss what they shoot at.

But how heavy (or light) should the trigger on a carry gun be for someone who is trained, and knows to keep his or her finger off the trigger until the sights are on the target? That's the caveat — training. Not just knowing to keep the finger off the trigger, but the gun pointed in a safe direction until it's time to shoot. I think the answer to this is, it depends. I would carry a 1911 with a 2-pound trigger pull before I would carry a Glock with a 2-pound trigger pull. Why? The 1911 has both a thumb safety and a grip safety. The Glock only has a trigger-mounted safety, and the number of accidental discharges with Glocks because of that are numerous.

Notice I used the term "accidental discharge," not "negligent discharge." The second is when you pull the trigger and something happens that you didn't intend ("I thought it was unloaded," etc). These accidental discharges I'm talking about are varied. I know of officers re-holstering their Glocks in thumb-break holsters, and the thumb break strap gets inside the trigger guard. As they push the pistol down, boom. I also know of instances where windbreaker drawstrings have gotten tangled in the triggers of Glocks, causing ADs.

As long as the pistol is mechanically sound, there is no such thing — theoretically — as a trigger pull that is too light. That said, once a trigger pull gets so light that unintended movement or jarring can set it off, it's too light. Where is that tipping point? I'm afraid that's a bit subjective.

When it came to the ideal carry-weight trigger pull on a 1911 in the hands of someone competent, Jeff Cooper himself said, "Three pounds, crisp, is the word."

Does 3 pounds sound too light? Well, if you don't trust yourself carrying a pistol "X" weight trigger, you shouldn't carry it. Cooper's concern was a pistol that enabled you to survive a gunfight, not the tongue-lashing of a lawyer in a courtroom."

 

Keep it above five pounds for two reasons:

1 - Mas Ayoob said so.

2 - Mas Ayoob knows what he is talking about from shooting, and legal defense best practices.

 

Keep it above five pounds for two reasons:

1 - Mas Ayoob said so.
2 - Mas Ayoob knows what he is talking about from shooting, and legal defense best practices.

I don't think, after polishing the internals I ever got over 5 pounds bone stock. I don't think a Johnny Glock trigger is designed to reduce trigger pull, but even with a OEM striker spring.

But it got me to thinking... Given a consistently functioning tool like a Wheeler or Lyman, what is the proper way to measure trigger pull? Where on the trigger do you engage the hook so we're all talking about the same thing? I know that if I hook it dead center on the shoe face it's going to give a higher reading than if I hook it lower. My finger rides the shoe fairly low where (with a flat face shoe) it every so lightly tends to brush the bottom of the trigger guard or just above it. Obviously the leverage changes.

So what's the proper method of measurement so we're all on the same page? Would a curved shoe in itself innately have a different pull than a flat face shoe because of how the lever angle changes?

 

Partial conclusions:

@Deputy Dave @Schrag4 and others who have participated in this thread...

Don't think that I took any of your comments lightly. I did not. There was a moment when I heard a quote that was so profound that in many ways it is my M.O.
"Assuming is not knowing. Knowing is NOT the same as understanding. There is a difference between compassion and wisdom, however compassion cannot supplant wisdom, and wisdom can not occur without understanding." There are shortcuts such as listening to "experts" blindly, which is great for some people. But if we look at the last year of Covid and the experts at CDC (and our "leaders") that had us all wrapped up in fear with exaggerated and misleading "facts" (that ofter weren't so factual"). I tend to put more weight on the expert opinions on this forum, but still take nothing at face value, yet appreciating the guidance in getting me to look deeper into the question.

Having said that, having become intimately familiar with my firearm, the various components available and hundreds of rounds of testing, my thinking has come around a bit, but in some ways I was surprised. The biggest constant in this was the trigger shoe which is and will remain the Johnny Glock flat face trigger shoe. There is no way I'm returning to that crappy Glock shoe. But at this moment, other than the shoe, everything has been reverted to OEM. But something surprised me that was worth mentioning.

I decided that I owed it to myself to put the OEM striker spring back in and see where that goes. I had kept the Taran connector which I preferred with the 4.5 pound spring. However with the heavier spring the Taran connector began to have more trigger creep and squooshy feeling than I like and was perplexed. I wondered what it would feel like with the OEM connector, so popped that in. Interestingly, the OEM connector with the heavier OEM spring felt crisper with less creep than the Taran, which confusingly had more creep and squoosh with the heavier spring, but less creep and squoosh with the lighter spring! How could the spring tension change affect creep??? I'm not sure I'll figure that out. Trigger pull weight is almost identical with both connectors.

So my 43x is now equipped with the JG shoe, OEM bar, OEM connector and OEM trigger spring. In dry fire, I have the laser on the TLR-6 to help me with the "wall test" to make sure I stay on target through the trigger pull and I can confidently say that going back to near stock with a somewhat heavier pull didn't alter my ability to stay on target through the trigger pull. To be honest, I think I prefer the 4.5 pound spring with the Taran connector, but I'll stay mostly OEM for the next few weeks and train with that setup. I suspect when I get to the range I won't even notice the change.

 

When I bought my first few Glocks, I was all about monkeying around with springs and other miscellaneous parts trying to make a utilitarian tool into a Wilson Combat, finely tuned $4000 pistol. Those days are long gone, especially if we are talking self-defense pistols. I took all the junk off of those original Glocks and have a gun box full of useless crap now. I change sights and maybe throw in a minus connector. Outside of that, I run my defensive pistols stock. I do so, for all the reasons others have laid out... such as safety, reliability and less legal scrutiny should I ever, (God Forbid) have to use my gun in defense of myself or others. I have actually grown to love the Glock Trigger, and wish my P365 pistols and others had the same trigger feel. Hard wall, clean break, very tactile reset. All the best as you wade through your decisions.

 

I get what you're saying Rufus. But it goes beyond that. Sure, the prime directive of the defensive pistol is to fire first time, every time. But it is also proven that beyond the reliability is what makes the pistol more accurate. It has been proven that lighter triggers tend to be more accurate. The question of lighter triggers being just as "safe" is an arguable question and I think is based on the individual and their previous training. If you were coming from decades of a Wilson Combat 1911, then you are trained to use a lighter trigger, and even a lightened 3.5 or even 4.0 pound Glock trigger will feel heavy in comparison.

But here's the thing. Every component in the trigger assembly is unique and jives (or doesn't jive) with every other component. Every unit of the same model is unique unto itself because of the slight variations of the same parts that come off of Glock's assembly line. I believe that the slight variations of the trigger bars and the variations of the striker (firing pin) can make or break the feel of the Glock, with the trigger bar being the more important as it has to interface with the connector. No two Glock parts are created equal.

To illustrate how things can be so different and yet operate the same, I can compare how my 43x and 48 are outfitted. The 48 has a stock trigger bar and connector. But a 4.5 pound striker spring and a Johnny Glock flat face shoe. My 43x has the stock trigger bar, but a Ghost Pro connector and a Johnny Glock $22 shoe and also the 4.5 pound striker spring. Both pull around 4 pounds of trigger pull weight. The question then is, why do these two different setup feel largely the same? It's because of how all the parts are matched and how they "mate" together. But the thing is that a stock Glock that come out of the box with parts that mesh together well can feel as good as specially selected parts (trigger take-up and polished internals excepted).

One more thing that I almost forgot to mention, My 48 takes OEM mags while my 43x feeds with S15 mags. The irony of that is that I've had some minor issues with the OEM setup while I have had zero issues with the S15's over thousands of rounds. Both mag setups I would consider very reliable, though ironically the S15's operate more smoothly.

FOR ME, having come off of 30+ years of a 1911, my preference in how the trigger operates is limited slop/takeup and limited overtravel in the trigger, a predictable break and a reasonable, but lighter than stock trigger pull- around 4 pounds. In no way am I suggesting that anyone do anything if they're fine where they are. COVID and a subsequent serious illness gave me a lot of time to experiment with my relatively new Glocks. And as always, any time we change anything in our pistols, particularly our carry arms, it is imperative that we test and train the crap out of them before we deem them viable for carry and SD.