[ditto1958]

Does it really make any difference how an AR-15 barrel is made? I was reading an ad for an FN-15, and it says the barrel is button broached. Other AR makers tout that their barrels are cold hammer forged. I wonder if, as a practical matter, it makes any difference?

Oh, and I do think it's kind of strange that FN would do that, as they otherwise are big proponents of cold hammer forged barrels.

 

[TnShooter83]

Buttoned is typically more consistant. But not always.
Hammer forged can be "tougher" and maybe last longer.
Anyways here is a good read. Saves me the time to type it out anyways.

http://thearguys.com/ar-facts/difference-hammer-forged-button-cut-rifiling/

 

[toshbar]

Button broached can leave chatter marks down the bore. In an AR that sees high volume shots inside 400yds, it really doesn't matter.

 

[Big Bird]

Cold Hammer Forging is an economical way to mass produce lots of fairly decent barrels...period.

Broaching or button rifling probably produces the most consistently accurate barrels on the planet. 99% of all bench rest competitors will use a button rifled barrel. None will use a cold hammer forged barrel.

Cut rifling is the other method and its still done in expensive highpower competition rifles and hunting barrels. It imparts the least amount of stress to the steel and in lighter barrels will generally have the least amount of dispersion as the barrel heats up and cools down. But they are expensive to produce and take a good amount of skill/experience to make well. In contrast a CHF barrel can be made by a monkey.

That's not to say that CHF doesn't have some advantages. Generally its a process that imparts a LOT of stress to the steel but its pretty uniform stress. Proponents will also argue that a CHF will last longer. But in truth I have yet to meet a person who has worn out their AR barrel...other than myself that is.

The milspec monkeys and TDP'aholics will tell you that nothing else is acceptable for an AR. Which is garbage.
Several makers offer top notch button rifled barrels considered by many to be superior to a CHF barrel. Anyone want to argue that a Noveske stainless barrel is inferior to a GI barrel? Or a Wilson barrel? To name a few...

 

[Big Bird]

Button broached can leave chatter marks down the bore. In an AR that sees high volume shots inside 400yds, it really doesn't matter.

You forgot to add--"Poorly done"...

Just as worn out dies can produce out of spec CHF barrels...

 

[toshbar]

But in truth I have yet to meet a person who has worn out their AR barrel...other than myself that is.

Don't flatter yourself.

 

[Big Bird]

Don't flatter yourself.

Shoot highpower seriously for a decade and you'll wear out a barrel every year or two...

 

[fnfalman]

Does it really make any difference how an AR-15 barrel is made? I was reading an ad for an FN-15, and it says the barrel is button broached. Other AR makers tout that their barrels are cold hammer forged. I wonder if, as a practical matter, it makes any difference?

Oh, and I do think it's kind of strange that FN would do that, as they otherwise are big proponents of cold hammer forged barrels.

Much ado about nothing

Btw, people that poopoo FN15 button rifled barrels also conveniently not mentioning that the precious Colt mil spec barrel is also button rifled.

M16/M4 barrels are to be button rifled per mil spec. Cold hammer forged is not mil spec.

Unless it's on the SCAR-H, then cold hammer forged chrome lined is mil spec.

 

[fnfalman]

Button broached can leave chatter marks down the bore. In an AR that sees high volume shots inside 400yds, it really doesn't matter.

Is that why premium match grade barrel makers use button rifling technique? So that their match grade barreled rifles can shoot shotgun groups?

 

[fnfalman]

You forgot to add--"Poorly done"...

Just as worn out dies can produce out of spec CHF barrels...

Ruger hammer forged barrel rifles aren't exactly known for world class accuracy.

I wonder why that is?

 

[Big Bird]

Ruger hammer forged barrel rifles aren't exactly known for world class accuracy.

I wonder why that is?

Production costs vs accuracy costs nothing more I've got a Roger Scout Rifle that is very good...not as good as my Steyr but again I can buy two Rogers for the price of a Steyr and the Ruger provides more practical accuracy than a master class rifle shot can use at any reasonable range.

 

[fnfalman]

Production costs vs accuracy costs nothing more I've got a Roger Scout Rifle that is very good...not as good as my Steyr but again I can buy two Rogers for the price of a Steyr and the Ruger provides more practical accuracy than a master class rifle shot can use at any reasonable range.

It was meant to show that just because a barrel is hammer forged, it doesn't automatically mean that it's better.

Supposedly FN's sniper rifles have chrome lined hammer forged barrel that turn out sub-MOA groups. Supposedly.

 

[Big Bird]

It was meant to show that just because a barrel is hammer forged, it doesn't automatically mean that it's better.

Supposedly FN's sniper rifles have chrome lined hammer forged barrel that turn out sub-MOA groups. Supposedly.

Ehhhh...good barrels and guns don't impress me. They literally are a dime a dozen. Shooters either impress me or disappoint. You can buy a great gun with enough money but you can't buy great skill with a rifle--you can only earn it. Experience alone means nothing either. You can shoot competitively for years and make the same mistakes over and over and shoot the same scores in the same class over and over. Which is great if you are a Master or High Master... There are people who have 20 years experience shooting guns and people who have shooting guns for a year 20 times over. There's a difference.

Just because you own a Steinway piano doesn't mean you know how to play one.

Rifles, shotguns and pistols are no different.

I have two awesome Steyr rifles both with CHF barrels capable of far smaller groups off the bench (which is meaningless) than I can hold in the field. I have some match and hunting rifles with hand cut Kreiger barrels and an Obermeyer barrel that can group golfball size groups at 300 yards. Which again is meaningless.
I've had crappy button rifles guns from Remington, Ruger and others.

What matters? To me? Walking above the treeline at 11,000 feet in vertical terrain running out of breath and daylight and making a 300 yard shot across a canyon on an Elk while huffing and puffing from a sitting position.
Making a 40 yard offhand shot on a full out running wild boar in Bavaria. Shooting a 195 or better with an X count of 12 or more at 600 yards prone on a windy day.

 

[toshbar]

Is that why premium match grade barrel makers use button rifling technique? So that their match grade barreled rifles can shoot shotgun groups?

Is FN putting 'premium match grade' barrels on their FN-15?
No. They're putting a cheap broached barrel on the rifle and talking it up. Meanwhile; they sell hammer forged AR barrels to PSA and talk those up too. Which one performs better? I don't have a clue. Does it matter? No, it does not matter to someone buying an FN-15 nor to someone buying a PSA complete upper using an FN-CHF barrel. Those customers are nowhere near the market of 'premium match grade barrels.' Their entire rifle costs what a precision barrel costs before being chambered.

Supposedly FN's sniper rifles have chrome lined hammer forged barrel that turn out sub-MOA groups. Supposedly.

Any run of the mill AR should be putting a 1 minute group down with good ammo. A 'sniper rifle' should be at least 1/3-1/2 minute capable.

I agree with Big Bird regarding shooters vs. equipment. Know what sets good shooters apart from gun enthusiasts that think they can buy accuracy? A $200 pellet rifle and a 10 meter range.

Shoot highpower seriously for a decade and you'll wear out a barrel every year or two...

If that is the case, why are you the only person you know to wear one out?

 

[fnfalman]

Any run of the mill AR should be putting a 1 minute group down with good ammo. A 'sniper rifle' should be at least 1/3-1/2 minute capable.

?

Can you give me a list of sniper/precision rifles with chrome lined carbon steel barrel? Other than FN, that is.

 

[fnfalman]

Is FN putting 'premium match grade' barrels on their FN-15?
No. They're putting a cheap broached barrel on the rifle and talking it up. Meanwhile; they sell hammer forged AR barrels to PSA and talk those up too. Which one performs better? I don't have a clue. Does it matter? No, it does not matter to someone buying an FN-15 nor to someone buying a PSA complete upper using an FN-CHF barrel. ?

So it really doesn't matter if a barrel is hammer forged or button rifled. One technique doesn't automatically means that the barrel is better than the other technique.

BTW, depends on which FN15 model to buy, the owner may just get one with a match grade barrel.

 

[toshbar]

Can you give me a list of sniper/precision rifles with chrome lined carbon steel barrel? Other than FN, that is.

Start your own thread. This one is about FN-15 tier ($1000 rifle) AR barrels.

 

[fnfalman]

Start your own thread. This one is about FN-15 tier ($1000 rifle) AR barrels.

Ok, I'll play. Any $1000 range FN15 AR type with chrome plated match grade barrel?

 

[toshbar]

Ok, I'll play. Any $1000 range FN15 AR type with chrome plated match grade barrel?

Criterion.
Alexander Arms.

EDIT: I listed barrels, not rifles.

 

[fnfalman]

Button broached can leave chatter marks down the bore. In an AR that sees high volume shots inside 400yds, it really doesn't matter.

Let me rephrase my question to you.

Since that you said for an AR that sees high volume shots inside 400-yards, it does not matter if the barrel is rifled via button broach method, are you then saying that for precision shooting a barrel is better off being made and rifled with cold hammer forged method?

Because apparently Lothar Walther, Krieger, et al, didn't get that memo.