[Bluescot]

One of my Sigs in .40S&W will handle SWC designed bullets just great and I have loaded some 175g SWC and some 180g plated with the same powder and charge.

Looking to decide which to carry in the woods for deer, bear, cougar and wolf encounters. I have only shot one deer with that pistol and that was with a 155g. RN cast and things went OK, not great but OK.

Anyone with experience on big game with either of these bullets ???

 

[fredj338]

Any round nose solid is a poor bullet choice for hunting anything Imo, regardless of caliber. A swc is better but a wide flat point has proven the best in a solid. I make these for my 10mm, 195gr. Problem is i dont know any caster making a 180gr, a better fit in the 40.

 

[WeeWilly]

Any round nose solid is a poor bullet choice for hunting anything Imo, regardless of caliber. A swc is better but a wide flat point has proven the best in a solid. I make these for my 10mm, 195gr. Problem is i dont know any caster making a 180gr, a better fit in the 40.

I agree. I have loaded a lot of 175gr LSWC in 40S&W for my G35. They feed like butter in that gun. I would choose those, appropriately loaded velocity wise, as a woods carry all day long over any RN profile, including RN/FP.

As Fred noted, a WFN profile in 180gr would be sweet for a 40 woods carry gun. Short of that, I would likely go 180gr XTP, loaded as stout as you feel comfortable. There is a thread, I think it is over in the Gun Related Clubs sub forums, under 40 S&W where SDGlock23 did amazing load development of hot 40's. You might check it out. Not a great deal of need for 10mm for most NA areas if you worked up something similar to one of his hotter loads.

 

[fredj338]

If you cast your own, great custom molds can be had for less than $150. So you could have a 175-180gr wnfp for the cost of 500 xtp? Coat them, Hitek or powder coat, good to go as hard as you can push that bullet in any 40.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=40-180P-D.png

 

[Bluescot]

I understand a little about handgun hunting but not a great deal.

I measured the flat surface point ( hard to get an accurate reading) of the two bullet designs and the plated 180g had a .282 and the 175g SWC had a .265 for a difference of .017 and I wondered if that would make a large difference in performance on game ?

Is it the design of the shoulders of the SWC that make it more desirable? I remember Elmer Keith who I once met, was a real advocate of the flat point bullet design.

If I'm looking for deep penetration would the plated bullet fit the need better with it's wider flat point?

Another thought was to alternately load a 180g HST bullet round over a generous load of Power Pistol followed by a plated/SWC round but then again my experience in handgun hunting is limited.

Recommendations ?? and thanks for the posts, very helpful.

 

[SJ 40]

My choice would align with those of Elmer Kieth,SWC for penetration and disruption. SJ 40

 

[SDGlock23]

Of those two you listed I would definitely go with the 175gr SWC. I think the HST would do okay and although I haven't done much testing with the 180gr HST, it does seem to start coming apart much past 1100 fps. One JHP I would definitely recommend is the Hornady XTP 180gr or 200gr. With some Power Pistol and 200gr XTP I've gotten just shy of 1050 fps from a 4" G23, which is nearly 500 ft-lbs and it will penetrate deep while expanding reliably. A 180gr XTP can hit 1175-1200 fps in 4" .40 S&W using Longshot powder.

To put it another way, Keith Warren has a video where he's hog hunting with a SIG 10mm and the ammo he's using is a 180gr XTP (Freedom Munitions brand) rated for 1120 fps, which is pretty easily accomplished in a .40 S&W.

I'm a pretty big 10mm fan but the .40 is no joke, far from it and would be enough for most any medium sized animal, even some large with the right bullet.

 

[fredj338]

I would NOT choose the HST as a woods load, unless i needed to defend myself against a coyote or maybe mountain lion. They open too fast, penetration is not deep enough for thick skinned, heavy muscled animals. The larger the flat point the more tissue damage. Think pushing a sharpened pencil thru a piece of meat vs a unsharpened, one goes thru easy the other has to be pushed with a lot more force, tearing a lot more tissue.

 

[Bluescot]

Of those two you listed I would definitely go with the 175gr SWC. I think the HST would do okay and although I haven't loaded a pulled 180gr HST, I do know that you can hover around 1150-1200 fps from a 4" barrel if you have some Longshot laying around. One JHP I would definitely recommend is the Hornady XTP 180gr or 200gr. With some Power Pistol and 200gr XTP I've gotten just shy of 1050 fps from a 4" G23, which is nearly 500 ft-lbs and it will penetrate deep while expanding reliably.

To put it another way, Keith Warren has a video where he's hog hunting with a SIG 10mm and the ammo he's using is a 180gr XTP (Freedom Munitions brand) rated for 1120 fps, which is pretty easily accomplished in a .40 S&W.

I'm a pretty big 10mm fan but the .40 is no joke, far from it and would be enough for most any medium sized animal, even some large with the right bullet.

I looked at my reloading records and saw that with a pulled 180g HST out of a Sig 226 I got 1174fps with Power Pistol and that pistol is a shooter. The G27 turns out 1164fps with a KKM barrel of stock length on it. Those G27 loads were with cast slugs and with plated they run about 25-30 fps slower. Recoil with the G27 is noted but hitting stuff makes it negligible.

I did load up some rounds with 180g plated and a healthy dose of Longshot and went out into the desert for testing along with some milder 180g cast loads. I was shooting at 115 yards and doing better than expected (one inch groups offhand....joke)with the Longshot loads and then ran a magful of the milder loads and was surprised at the difference in impact at that distance,much much lower. I know that pistols aren't designed for long distance work but shooting at the distance sure helps your trigger control. Flinch in the least and you miss your target by 10 yards and suffer the jabs of your buddies.

I have used some Hornady XTP bullets in the past and sounds like time to revisit them. Thanks.

 

[WeeWilly]

I understand a little about handgun hunting but not a great deal.

I measured the flat surface point ( hard to get an accurate reading) of the two bullet designs and the plated 180g had a .282 and the 175g SWC had a .265 for a difference of .017 and I wondered if that would make a large difference in performance on game ?

Is it the design of the shoulders of the SWC that make it more desirable? I remember Elmer Keith who I once met, was a real advocate of the flat point bullet design.

If I'm looking for deep penetration would the plated bullet fit the need better with it's wider flat point?

Another thought was to alternately load a 180g HST bullet round over a generous load of Power Pistol followed by a plated/SWC round but then again my experience in handgun hunting is limited.

Recommendations ?? and thanks for the posts, very helpful.

Yes, the squarer the edges of the shoulders (or the opened HP) the better. Rounded shoulders will tend to steer the bullet when it meets obstacles in the object. The flat surfaces and squarer edges of a WFN or SWC (or the flat plate presented in an open HP like an XTP) will tend to pound straight ahead (much better for wounding penetration).

The squarer the edges also force the flesh flow to detach causing a wake like effect, where the more rounded shoulders cause it to stay attached to the flow causing less disruption of tissues and a smaller overall wound channel.

 

[dartor]

Hornady 180gr XTP!

 

[Taterhead]

The way that 200 gr hard cast from Buffalo Bore run in my G23 leads me to think that I'd load a 200 gr WFN hardcast like sold by Beartooth. I love that bullet in 10mm, and pretty sure 1000 fps is doable in the G23 with Long Shot. That bullet is a hammer. They are veey similar in profile to those in Fred's post.

If I ever get around to firing up my new Pro Melt, I'll likely just buy a mold in that profile. The Beartooth bullets are great, but it takes ages for them to fill the order, and they are EXPENSIVE!

 

[fredj338]

The way that 200 gr hard cast from Buffalo Bore run in my G23 leads me to think that I'd load a 200 gr WFN hardcast like sold by Beartooth. I love that bullet in 10mm, and pretty sure 1000 fps is doable in the G23 with Long Shot. That bullet is a hammer. They are veey similar in profile to those in Fred's post.

If I ever get around to firing up my new Pro Melt, I'll likely just buy a mold in that profile. The Beartooth bullets are great, but it takes ages for them to fill the order, and they are EXPENSIVE!

Accurate Molds has my exact bullet, a tweaked design of a mold he had with a slightly larger meplat, http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=40-195G-D.png

 

[Taterhead]

Accurate Molds has my exact bullet, a tweaked design of a mold he had with a slightly larger meplat, http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=40-195G-D.png

Yes. That exact mold is on my short list. It will be that or a WFN from LBT. The Beartooth bullet mold might actually be a Veral Smith design since they tout LBT mold designs on the website.

 

[fredj338]

Yes. That exact mold is on my short list. It will be that or a WFN from LBT. The Beartooth bullet mold might actually be a Veral Smith design since they tout LBT mold designs on the website.

Isn't that a gc though? IMO, gc isn;t needed.

 

[Taterhead]

Isn't that a gc though? IMO, gc isn;t needed.

The BT component is a GC, but Veral will cut whatever base that you want.

 

[fredj338]

Same for Accurate. Tom is a good guy, design your own, tweak one already in the catalog, same price. He also has great CS, molds are often to your door in 2 weeks.

 

[happie2shoot]

Yes. That exact mold is on my short list. It will be that or a WFN from LBT. The Beartooth bullet mold might actually be a Veral Smith design since they tout LBT mold designs on the website.

I have some LBT molds and like them more than all the other
molds I have, have around fifty molds.

One day I will either make or buy a mold for the 40/10mm.

Having shot game with cast boolits and been around
hunters that have shot game with cast boolits I would
get a 180gr rnfp with a gc.

Regardless what you hear speed helps and a 180 can be driven
faster than a 200gr, and a gc helps, they both will penetrate
just fine but the extra speed will do more damage.

I would also get a .300'' to .320'' meplat, remember this is to
get the most from the 40/10mm, you can get a cheap mold from
lee for other tasks.

With factory data the 180 in the 40 can 1150 fps in 4'' barrels,
longshot, and in a six inch barrel 1270 is easy, a 4.5'' barrel will
do over well 1200 fps, I have shot this load many times with this
boolit,

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690256/double-cavity-mold-401-175-tc

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690690/6-cavity-mold-401-175-tc

They are good boolits and will probably work for most that we do.

I have a nice 200 wfn .40 NOE five cavity mold that I wish was the 180 gr
that I stated, would probably sell the mold to get the better boolit.