I'm not familiar with the CO backcountry, but is 9mm sufficient for the animals you could encounter?? I'm only asking because I'm not sure.

We hike here in north GA all year, and I usually carry a .45 with 2 extra mags, and my wife carries her SR9. So far, all we've seen are snakes, squirrels, & caught the faint whiff of a bear a few times.

 

Climb14er,

What perceived threat in the "back country" makes you carry the +P+ instead of +P?

Have you chrnographed the two loads through the pistol in which you carry them? I'd be willing to bet there is little difference in projectile velocity.

Most folk that I know, myself included, who spend time a lot of time hiking and camping in relatively remote areas where wildlife abounds, are mostly concerned with bears, and second to bears, mountain lions. Frankly, if you shoot an aggressive bear with +P+, it won't feel it any more than if you shoot it with +P. Either load will likely just piss it off more. Best odds for bears is bear spray. If you have to have a handgun, and not a rifle, you'll want .44 magnum or better for bears.

 

A +P buffalo bore is very well suited to all bears. Ill get more rounds on target with my Glock 19X than you will with your 45 or 10mm I guarantee it. Hardcast will penetrate and break bones. This 9mm will only piss of bears nonsense is just that. Yes a 45 round is better if its a 1 shot game. if its so fast you cant get a round off it doesn't matter what you carry. My split times with 9mm blows away split times for a .45 with anyone I shoot with and we are all good shooters. Accuracy is also much better. I shoot a Glock 19X with a radian compensator and +P buffalo bore never leaves the sight window of my Red dot. Plenty of Grizzlies have been killed with 9mm and even much smaller rounds. Everything thing is faster with a 9mm compared to a .45 or 10mm. Now i'm 5'11" 194 lbs as i sit today with about 15% bodyfat. I've been a gym rat my whole life and I'm stronger than 90% of men out there and a .45 draw and split times with a .45 are much slower and less accurate. So if you're the 5% of men with good shooting ability, a gym rat and over 200# then yes a .45 or 10mm may be a better option than a 9mm hardcast buffalo bore. Yes the outliers like lena Micculick may do very well with the larger calibers but that's just it outliers. Also you want penetration for bears not hollow point. well placed rounds are what will win the fight. winging a bear with a .45 or a 10mm will still get you mauled. I bet my life on it every time i go out fishing and hunting in Montana with my 9mm and I'm not changing. Another thing i hear often is i carry a 9 but take my .45 when i go out west. Another prescription for disaster if your not practicing with that .45 often you have 1 shot to get it right because you wont get a second. Carry a 9 and increase the odds you survive an animal attack. If you dont shoot often with anything carry bear spray.

 

I'm not familiar with the CO backcountry, but is 9mm sufficient for the animals you could encounter?? I'm only asking because I'm not sure.

We hike here in north GA all year, and I usually carry a .45 with 2 extra mags, and my wife carries her SR9. So far, all we've seen are snakes, squirrels, & caught the faint whiff of a bear a few times.

The question is about Buffalo Bore +p+ Penetrator ammo in a Glock 19.

Let me further clarify...

If I'm up in Wyoming, back in the Wind Rivers or in Montana, similar, I carry bear spray.

Rather than buying a Glock 20, or a .44Mag or a .357Mag, I carry a 9mm... in addition to bear spray.

I'd just like to know if anyone has carried the +p+ loads in a 9mm and if they work well with a stock Glock 19.

Not trying to get into a caliber war. I trust you folks understand as I've been on this forum a long time and would like to keep my Glock 19 on me in the backcountry.

Appreciate any solid info on the Penetrator ammo. Thanks!

 

The question is about Buffalo Bore +p+ Penetrator ammo in a Glock 19.

Let me further clarify...

If I'm up in Wyoming, back in the Wind Rivers or in Montana, similar, I carry bear spray.

Rather than buying a Glock 20, or a .44Mag or a .357Mag, I carry a 9mm... in addition to bear spray.

I'd just like to know if anyone has carried the +p+ loads in a 9mm and if they work well with a stock Glock 19.

Not trying to get into a caliber war. I trust you folks understand as I've been on this forum a long time and would like to keep my Glock 19 on me in the backcountry.

Appreciate any solid info on the Penetrator ammo. Thanks!

I carry a 357 Sig loaded with Underwood Xtreme Penetrators or Hornady 147gr XTPs for woods carry. That is solid info, wishing that a certain round will turn the 9mm into a bear gun is risky business.

 

The question is about Buffalo Bore +p+ Penetrator ammo in a Glock 19.

I know what I'm asking and carrying! Been out in Colorado backcountry for forty years.

I did some good searches before I asked the question of this forum. I also leave my .45 ACP home. The question is about +p+ Penetrator or similar ammo in a Glock 19.

Sorry to have bothered you. Best of luck.

If you want solid info on that specific ammo, here it is. Anything else is just one man's opinion.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=225

 

Sorry to have bothered you. Best of luck.

If you want solid info on that specific ammo, here it is. Anything else is just one man's opinion.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=225

I've read it already the other day, thank you.

I posted here as I want the opinion of others who have used the ammo in a Glock 19. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I've read it already the other day, thank you.

I posted here as I want the opinion of others who have used the ammo in a Glock 19. Nothing more, nothing less.

Gotcha. I may order a box for the heck of it just out of curiosity to shoot side by side with my HST. I wonder what the recoil difference would be like... I've shot +P before, so I can imagine the +P+ would pack a punch!

 

If I were shooting a steady diet of +p+, I would up the recoil spring one rate. It should be fine for occasional use. The bigger question is proper tool for the job. If you spend a lot of time in big bear territory, get suitable handgun. Any handgun is a min compromise, service calibers for 400# grizz, really at the bottom of choices IMO.

 

My two third-gen G19's have had probably a thousand rounds each of Winchester and Federal 115 gr +P+, those used to be the issue load for my department. No indications of any problem.

Keep in mind that NATO 9mm is already +P, and that's what the gun was designed for. NATO might even be a little hotter, but the pressure measuring systems and locations were a little different and exact comparisons are difficult.

When I took the armorer course from Glock a few years ago, they said that their guns are not officially rated for +P+ because there is no industry standard. But they also said that lots of departments were using +P+ extensively in Glock 9mm guns, and there were no unusual problems.

But having said all that, I'm suspicious of hot ammo from small companies. Several years ago I tested two different lots of CorBon 115 +P in my Browning Hi Power, a gun that worked with anything that would fit in the magazine. Every mag, the Corbon would give me one or two cases that stuck in the chamber and wouldn't extract. And it chronographed 50 fps faster than the Win/Fed +P+. Primers were really flat. There ain't no free lunch, that stuff was running really high pressures.

Like Climb14er, I carry my G19 in the boonies, including Africa. I use Winchester 9mm NATO, purchased from a LE distributor and not A-----m, where I bought a case of Federal NATO that was no faster than regular commercial 124 gr; I think it was on the civilian market because it failed the NATO velocity spec. Just guessin'.
I also have some of the old Vector ammo (low temp tracers) that I carry for emergency signaling, not available any more.

I've dispatched a few down but not dead animals with the 9, it's not a wonder gun but it's what I have. A wildebeest, shot between the eyes where horns join the skull, just looked at me until I shot it behind the ear. The skull bullet was recovered, the fmj was flattened out like a nickle. Other animals produced better results. And I've actually read more stories of people killing bears with 9mm than with .44, perhaps because that's considered unusual. The technique seems to be to just unload a full mag of fmj into the bruin's chest as quickly as possible.

In the lower 48, I might use Speer 124 gr +P Gold Dot, penetration would be less than fmj but more than normal jhp.

And anywhere you go, people are always the biggest danger. Even if there are very few of them. The G19 is excellent for that; light, rustproof, easy to shoot, lots of bullets.

 

If I was really wanting to push a 9mm fmj fast I would go with my G32 or P229 loaded with hot 357 Sig loads. If you are counting on the bear spray for bears why not use it for that and load the 19 for human troublemakers?

 

Jim, thanks for the good reply!

Little more back story...

I've narrowed down my calibers to two... 9mm and .45ACP. My regular carry gun is a Lightweight Commander CCO .45ACP and a Glock 19. Oh, I take the first statement back... I carry a NAA .22Mag Mini Mag when I run. Light and ok for up close stuff.

I have been thinking about the backcountry protection more and more as I get older. I've climbed the high peaks in virtually all the states in the West and know what?

I've only seen one large black bear crossing I-70 here in Colorado and never have seen a mountain lion.

Yes, I've seen scat and knew that I was being watched, you know... you just have that feeling. But my main pursuits have been mountaineering where weight has always been a factor in addition to safety.

I began to carry my Glock 9mm six years ago in the back country after I survived an armed robbery at my house. I figured that I could carry an additional weight of a Glock 19 with a spare mag in a Safepacker holster on my climbing trips.

I've thought about going to a Glock 20 and may do so. But this is another caliber platform and one where ammo is not that readily available... but can be obtained through the internet and reloading, which I don't do.

I would keep it to a Glock 20 but with two mags of ammo, the added weight of the 20 is much greater than the 19. Remember, I'm climbing and backpacking and weight is important.

So I've gone from just bear spray to Glock 19 and bear spray. That's weight in and of itself. Catch my drift.

If weight was no matter, I'd carry a 12ga with slugs and be done with the whole thing. But we've got weight to deal with here.

So... a more potent FMJ 9mm +p+ round for the Glock 19 is what I'm looking at... at least for the time being.

I don't ask many questions here on this or other forums... and thought that I could get good reponses re: the +p+ ammo for the Glock 19 here.

Again, I like the Glock 19, it's a great gun for personal protection, great in the back country, reliable, accurate and the type of gun that is good for what I'm intending it for w/o buying another caliber platform.

Just some additional .02 so you know where I'm coming from.

 

If stuck on the idea of the 9mm as a backpacking gun, then I would look for penetration, a +p loaded 147grFMJ. You want/need momentum, not necessarily more vel, for animal penetration. If its people or big cats, then a 147grJHP would be a better choice. Mountain lion are thin skinned, lightly muscled compared to bear. As noted, you have a bigger problem from people in the back country than animals in most places, load accordingly.

 

Just responding to the +p+ 124gr at 1,300fps. If all you are going to shoot it occasionally, the factory spring is fine. Believe it or not you will have less felt recoil with the factory spring, but the gun will feel it more. If you are going to shoot less than 100 rounds I would not worry about it, The gun will be reliable and will not be beat up any noticeable amount. If you are going to shoot more than that, I would consider two pounds heavier than stock. You can run almost anything with +2, but may have some problem with practice 115gr. I carry +p+ with factory rated springs, but do all of my practicing with lower velocity. Actually, it is not the pressure, but the velocity. A 124gr at 1,300fps +p+ is a bit harder than let's say 9BPLE which is a 115gr at 1,300fps +p+. I would shoot 9BPLE all day with the factory spring.

 

rated springs, but do all of my practicing with lower velocity. Actually, it is not the pressure, but the velocity. A 124gr at 1,300fps +p+ is a bit harder than let's say 9BPLE which is a 115gr at 1,300fps +p+. I would shoot 9BPLE all day with the factory spring.

Good point, something often over looked, it's recoil impulse, not pressure. Why the 115gr +p+ will be easier on the gun than most 124gr +p.:dunno:

 

If you are thinking about a Glock 20 for the back country do not overlook the Glock 29. They are great back country carry guns. I carry 200 grain FMJ's or the 220 grain Buffalo Bore hardcast in mine.

 

Appreciate the replies!

I'm going to order Buffalo Bore Penetrator 9mm +p+ 124gr FMJ ammo for the Glock 19. Heck, I could also use this ammo in my Sig P226 9mm Navy.

I am also very seriously considering the Glock 20SF with some Buffalo Bore 220gr. Hardcast ammo. We'll see how this unfolds.

Stay safe everyone!

 

If you are thinking about a Glock 20 for the back country do not overlook the Glock 29. They are great back country carry guns. I carry 200 grain FMJ's or the 220 grain Buffalo Bore hardcast in mine.

Ak has a point as far as ease of carry. I have a lot of 10mm's in 1911, but if I were to pick a gun to carry a 10mm would be my G29. Also, I got a 4.6" barrel for my G29 from Storm Lake. It really does not stick out far and G29 holsters work as long as they are not closed bottom. You get G20 ballistics in a much smaller package. As a note, get the Pearce magazine extension. It does not add any rounds, but gives a place for your little finger, which is necessary when shooting full 10mm fast. Also, carry a G20 magazine for backup.

 

Appreciate the replies!

I'm going to order Buffalo Bore Penetrator 9mm +p+ 124gr FMJ ammo for the Glock 19. Heck, I could also use this ammo in my Sig P226 9mm Navy.

I am also very seriously considering the Glock 20SF with some Buffalo Bore 220gr. Hardcast ammo. We'll see how this unfolds.

Stay safe everyone!

Please forgive everyone for not directly answering your question sometimes. It is just the nature of the group to go beyond the question asked. Good luck and I think you will be fine. My son carried the M9 through two tours of combat and was surprised at the penetration he would get with 9mm NATO FMJ as far as going through vehicle doors.

 

Everything's cool!

The main goal of the forum and posts...

To be safe and protect one's self and family.

 

Here in No. CA all we have is the fairly timid blackies and Mtn. Lions to worrie about. The 9mm is far from perfect as an outdoor woods caliber but it the 9mm was all I had I'd find myself a FMJ load that has a gilding metal clad steel bullet and use that; it's a much harder bullet jacket than just a standard gilding metal FMJ.

 

Just curious...wouldn't a flat-nose profile do more to crush through bone and flesh than a HP?

I thought that was the attraction of the BB Penetrator +P+ round.

 

wrong spot

 

wrong spot

 

I have shot +P+ ammunition out of my Glock 19 with absolutely no problem! However I only shoot it about 100 to 200 shots a year and constantly carry it in the gun when I CCW it.

I have heard, and believe, if you are going to shoot allot of it every year say around 800 or more rounds it would be wise to increase the recoil spring a couple of lbs. Thats what I have done with my Beretta 92. I would advise if you carry this in the back country to constantly practice double and triple taps!!!

Best.

 

Just curious...wouldn't a flat-nose profile do more to crush through bone and flesh than a HP?

I thought that was the attraction of the BB Penetrator +P+ round.

Unfortunately this is one of those myths that continues to persist today.

In reality SWC bullets are no better than RN profile bullets. They just push tissue aside and cause ice pick style damage in human tissue.

 

A flat nose helps straight line penetration, doubt it does much for tissue damage unless it's hard and almost Wadcutter profile. A longer fmj/RN pistol bullet will likely tumble.