Rob Pincus or Mas Ayoob would be good. In fact, ANY professional trainer can help you. You don't want to go from Isos to Weaver. Virtually everyone is going the other direction!

How are you hitting? Where do the rounds tend to group?

 

Rob Pincus or Mas Ayoob would be good. In fact, ANY professional trainer can help you. You don't want to go from Isos to Weaver. Virtually everyone is going the other direction!

How are you hitting? Where do the rounds tend to group?

I'm thinking of those, and Robert Vogel.

My groups are usually centered, although I have my sights pushed a bit to the right. It's the size of the groups that's the issue. I am at risk of drinking too much coffee. I have a prescription to Atenolol around here somewhere, I may try that to rule out tremor-related issues.

I'm redoing Burkett's Practical Shooting volumes 1-4 and 7 this week, probably buy Vogel's, and see if I can make some progress at home, even if I do go to a trainer. And I believe I'll stop load development for a while. That stuff is addictive.

 

Shooting off a bench is a good way to learn that trigger control and sight alignment though so don't give up on that.

I assume your groups and much better shooting off a rest then?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how is your trigger pull? Do you pull it straight to the rear in one motion like a revolver?

I'm currently trying to help a friend get into shooting and that's how his trigger pull is. I'm trying to train him to take of the slack in the trigger first, then smoothly pull through the break point until the shot breaks. When I watch him and he starts pulling all the way through the trigger again, that's when his shots start dropping low left.

 

Shooting off a bench is a good way to learn that trigger control and sight alignment though so don't give up on that.

I assume your groups and much better shooting off a rest then?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how is your trigger pull? Do you pull it straight to the rear in one motion like a revolver?

I'm currently trying to help a friend get into shooting and that's how his trigger pull is. I'm trying to train him to take of the slack in the trigger first, then smoothly pull through the break point until the shot breaks. When I watch him and he starts pulling all the way through the trigger again, that's when his shots start dropping low left.

Yes, pretty much 1" groups off a rest at 21-50'.

I've tried "riding the break" and squeezing slowly for the entire trigger travel (what Leatham recommends). Can't really say which way works better for me. I'll try to test that at the range tomorrow. I have a suspicion that I may be unknowingly jerking the trigger a bit when I am paying attention to anything else. I probably need to get someone to watch me shoot more often, and focus them on single issues, like how I am working the trigger.

 

Here is training for one-on-one training if you are near Charlotte. http://www.eaglerockts.com/ I have spoken staff and they should be able to help.

After reading your post, I feel you are not pulling the trigger straight back or pushing on the trigger a little sideways as pulling. This is common among shooters and is commonly known as "Jerking" the trigger.

 

Maybe reloading's my "Spiritual Gift", and I should rejoice in my role as the Family's Reloader, but I grow weary of everybody I shoot with being more accurate than me,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Matt 5:3 , Blessed is the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.I get aggravated also,but I realize that there are some things I'm not as good as I would like to be.I shoot 1000 rds/ month also............DOC

 

A gentleman at brianenos.com suggested Chris Tilley in Raleigh. Duh, I watched Chris on Top Shot last year, I don't know why I did not think of him.

Thanks for the tips. I believe I will review the DVD's and stuff I have on hand, get some trigger time without chrono, and go see Chris.

 

I don't necessarily mean riding the reset after each shot, I mean taking up the pre-travel in the trigger before you finally squeeze the shot off.

Dry fire is a big help here, but (at least for me) I don't have too terribly long of sight lines in my house so I actually do a good amount of dry fire at the range during practice because I don't have a 25 yard hallway in my palace

 

I don't necessarily mean riding the reset after each shot, I mean taking up the pre-travel in the trigger before you finally squeeze the shot off.

Dry fire is a big help here, but (at least for me) I don't have too terribly long of sight lines in my house so I actually do a good amount of dry fire at the range during practice because I don't have a 25 yard hallway in my palace

Got it, yes I try to practice taking up the slack.

I dry fire at home with Snap-Caps in all calibers and Glocks currently owned, probably not enough though. I find the lasers help by exaggerating the barrel movement. I need to make a regular habit of at least 15 minutes a day dry firing during the time before my wife is awake, when I have the house to myself.

 

I don't like a laser for dryfire because it takes your attention off the sights. You need to be burning that image of the front sight into your brain when that shot breaks to be able to properly call a shot. If your attention is partially on the laser you won't be fully focused on the sights.

 

Your situation sounds a lot like mine. Turns out... while I can squeeze the trigger perfectly fine while dry firing... subconsciously I tend to flinch when shooting live rounds.

Try this. Have someone load up a magazine with 5 rounds or so, but one is a snap cap. Object is that YOU don't know if it's the 3rd, 4th, or whatever. Shoot slow fire at a close target... maybe a 2" circle at 7 yards. Try to put shot dead center. I'd wager that when you come to the dummy round? You FLINCH! Gun jumps like it has a mind of its own. That is what I'm doing, and I've PLACED at GSSF events more than once (two seconds and a 3rd at Columbia, SC in 2011).

The problem I have with snap caps, is that I usually practice alone. So I can put one snap cap and 5 bullets in my hand and load blind, but I will "feel" the snap cap when I come to it, and I know where it is in the order which defeats the purpose. So being a reloader, I did this: I made 5 or so "dummy" rounds... I didn't punch out the primer and didn't put powder in them. But obviously put bullets in them. I took a magic marker and painted the bottoms black. I keep them in a separate bag in my shooting bag. So I can grab 2 of those, 5 regular bullets, mix them up in one hand... then load into magazine.

I pulled the decapping pin when I was making the dummy rounds... this let me resize like normal, flare, seat, crimp. This is something you can do in minutes, and will let you see if it's your problem too.

Because nobody could see me doing this, I couldn't tell it either, UNTIL I did this. Very frustrating, because now even though I know what my root cause is, I can't figure out how to solve it. I don't even think an instructor can either. I must be getting better at it as my accuracy is improving, but is something you need to be thinking of during practice.

 

Your situation sounds a lot like mine. Turns out... while I can squeeze the trigger perfectly fine while dry firing... subconsciously I tend to flinch when shooting live rounds.

Try this. Have someone load up a magazine with 5 rounds or so, but one is a snap cap. Object is that YOU don't know if it's the 3rd, 4th, or whatever. Shoot slow fire at a close target... maybe a 2" circle at 7 yards. Try to put shot dead center. I'd wager that when you come to the dummy round? You FLINCH! Gun jumps like it has a mind of its own. That is what I'm doing, and I've PLACED at GSSF events more than once (two seconds and a 3rd at Columbia, SC in 2011).

The problem I have with snap caps, is that I usually practice alone. So I can put one snap cap and 5 bullets in my hand and load blind, but I will "feel" the snap cap when I come to it, and I know where it is in the order which defeats the purpose. So being a reloader, I did this: I made 5 or so "dummy" rounds... I didn't punch out the primer and didn't put powder in them. But obviously put bullets in them. I took a magic marker and painted the bottoms black. I keep them in a separate bag in my shooting bag. So I can grab 2 of those, 5 regular bullets, mix them up in one hand... then load into magazine.

I pulled the decapping pin when I was making the dummy rounds... this let me resize like normal, flare, seat, crimp. This is something you can do in minutes, and will let you see if it's your problem too.

Because nobody could see me doing this, I couldn't tell it either, UNTIL I did this. Very frustrating, because now even though I know what my root cause is, I can't figure out how to solve it. I don't even think an instructor can either. I must be getting better at it as my accuracy is improving, but is something you need to be thinking of during practice.

Actually, I would never have admitted it, but I made the same dummy rounds, just so my mags would weigh the same as at the GSSF line. The Mall Ninja part is that I used gray Russian steel cases (for quick identification), loaded them with my average throw weight of dried sand (+/- 0.5 gr), inserted a bullet to SAAMI spec, and enameled the bullets black (for quick identification, and because I'm a tool). I baked them at 350F for an hour to be sure they did not flake in the magazine. Did this for three calibers and five Glocks. Took most of an evening. Been loading Snap Caps for the last two rounds, so when I accidentally eject one, there is another. These are in a mag with an orange base plate.

Someone on this thread or over at Enos's suggested I was over-analysing. Hmmm. So maybe I should examine my OCD Mall Ninja traits first, then worry about the flinch, poor groups, etc. Food for thought. No one at the range has laughed at me yet about the heritage quality dummy rounds, but then again, I usually have a 10mm in my hand.

I hear you about mixing the dummy rounds at random. I'll try that. Lots of good advice in this thread, thanks to all responders.

 

Your situation sounds a lot like mine. Turns out... while I can squeeze the trigger perfectly fine while dry firing... subconsciously I tend to flinch when shooting live rounds....

I forgot to mention this: I've been starting with the 10mm, then shooting 40S&W, then 9mm, because it made the smaller rounds feel so easy. My new shooting crony, Charlie, pointed out that his father, an old-school champion 1911 shooter, and all his Bullseye Buddies, always started practice with a .22, then worked up to .45. I'm thinking of getting one of those outrageously expensive Advantage Arms .22 conversion kits, since I don't spend enough money on this hobby, and seeing if that helps get rid of any possible subconscious flinch.

Then again, if I found shooting buddies who had not been shooting since they were two and were trained by shooters who once won a match by knocking down a silhouette with a .45 at 200 yards one-handed, I would not be having the underlying problem anyway, which is vanity.

 

While you are "dry firing", either at range or house, place a "Penny" on the front sight. Try keeping the "Penny" on the front while pressing the trigger. This works.

During your live fire session, have a friend load your magazine with the dummy ammo and live ammo to you.. If you flinch, begin "Dry Fire" again about 12 reps.... Have your friend reload another mag.. If you finch, restart "Dry Fire".... This will help......

Thanks - Rob

 

I hear you about mixing the dummy rounds at random. I'll try that. Lots of good advice in this thread, thanks to all responders.

That's the key thing, you CANNOT know you're going to have a dummy round in the chamber for this to show off the defect. Next time out, make sure to load the mag blindly, so you don't know where the dummy rounds are going to be. I'll load 5 rounds, 3 live and 2 dummy.

It is very puzzling to me. I don't feel like I'm "afraid" of the gun going off. I can dry fire at length and the sights not even quiver. But there is some sub-conscious thing going on where I indeed flinch. It's not every time, but it does happen.

I'm a fairly successful competition shooter. Missed classifying as IDPA expert by less than half-a-second 12 months ago. Fully expect to make it next time I try. Classified as a 'B' USPSA shooter immediately. I've taken two 2cd places and probably 5 3rd places at GSSF matches (getting *paid*). I don't suck. Yet, I do have a flinch that arises on occasion and affects accuracy. The first thing is to know it's there. Then you have to work on it.

If it turns out you have the same issue, and can find someone who can help you with that... let me know. I live near Charlotte myself. I'm just trying to do it with more dry fire, and lots of slow speed accuracy drills. I do seem to be improving, but it is not a fast rate for sure.

 

You would be amazed at how a 2lb trigger on a Glock will help your shooting.

 

You would be amazed at how a 2lb trigger on a Glock will help your shooting.

I've got the "-" connector and a good $0.25 trigger polish in all my Glocks, and have a set of Wolff competition springs. Perhaps I'll throw them in one of the Glocks and see if I get light strikes. I use Federal primers, so maybe that won't be a problem. Is this how you achieve 2#?

The other issue with this is shooting GSSF, I'm not sure that will pass inspection, and I'd like to be more proficient with the gun being near stock. Thanks, however, for the suggestion.

 

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=549549&highlight=Duck+Death+trigger+job

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=52311

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1369375

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72964

 

I've got the "-" connector and a good $0.25 trigger polish in all my Glocks, and have a set of Wolff competition springs. Perhaps I'll throw them in one of the Glocks and see if I get light strikes. I use Federal primers, so maybe that won't be a problem. Is this how you achieve 2#?

The other issue with this is shooting GSSF, I'm not sure that will pass inspection, and I'd like to be more proficient with the gun being near stock. Thanks, however, for the suggestion.

Federal primers are the softest and best to use with a reduced spring. I've never fired a shot out of either of my Glocks with the stock spring in place and also never had a light strike. I use Federal primers only.

With the - connector and a reduced Wolff striker spring my trigger weighs just under 3 pounds.

 

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=549549&highlight=Duck+Death+trigger+job

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=52311

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1369375

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72964

Okay, Duck, I just put the competition springs in the G34, and I'll try it in the morning. And look at all that fancy drilling later. Thanks.