[Z71bill]

I have been kicking around the idea of building some sort of AR - just because it seems interesting - and I am not even sure if it will be a rifle of a pistol at this point.

Most likely buy a budget stripped lower locally (or two even - Andersen stripped lowers are on sale for $35) - and finish it off with a kit from PSA.

Reading a little about the ATF regs - and I am confused.

I keep reading - once you register it as a rifle - it can't be changed over to a pistol

But if you register it as a pistol first - then you can switch it over to a rifle later no problem.


WTF? Texas doesn't register firearms - so am I required to "register" an AR (rifle or pistol) if I build it myself? Who do I register it with?

If I don't need to register it (I don't think I have to) does it matter if I build a rifle then build a pistol later on the same receiver?



Let's start with these - I think I have a few more I am saving for later.

 

[Ross-in-Pa]

As I understand it, a stripped lower is the serialized item. Essentially it is the firearm.

It requires a ATF 4473 form to be filled out at the FFL dealer.

That form is where it would be designated as a rifle or as a pistol.

 

[bubbatime]

Lowers are transferred as "other" when you buy them on the 4473 form. You can built them into a pistol or rifle if you want. Since there is no registration in TX, you dont register nothing. Dont over think it.

If the shop is transferring the lower PROPERLY, it will always be transferred as other, and not pistol or rifle.

 

[Biggsly]

Like said above. Other, and your good.

 

[flyover]

Lowers are transferred as "other" when you buy them on the 4473 form. You can built them into a pistol or rifle if you want. Since there is no registration in TX, you dont register nothing. Dont over think it.

If the shop is transferring the lower PROPERLY, it will always be transferred as other, and not pistol or rifle.

As far as I know this is correct. The lower does not become anything until you build it.

 

[cowboy1964]

 

[Z71bill]

So if I had a stripped lower and built it into a rifle -

Then changed my mind and wanted to make it into a pistol -

Is that OK?

Or is it one of those things that would technically be illegal - but since I never officially registered it - and only used it as a range toy I just would have an almost zero chance of ever being charged with a crime?

 

[Z71bill]

I am also totally screwed up about AOW - any other weapon --

I know it is illegal to have a forward vertical grip on a pistol - but not on an AOW.

But that would be pretty cool and useful -

I also see that a gun that is over 26" is not considered a pistol, because it can't be concealed (unless it is actually concealed on you) - so it could have a forward vertical grip as long as you didn't conceal it on your body.

Say I wanted to build such a gun -

What would I need to do?

Build a pistol lower and put an upper on it so that the length from end of the threads on the muzzle - to the end of the buffer tube - is 26.25"?

I am trying to avoid getting any stamps or any other paperwork - but having an AR that is 26.25" long with a vertical forward grip would be pretty cool as a HD weapon.

But I obviously don't want the AFT ripping me a new butt hole.

If it is a major gray area I would just avoid it - not worth it to me.

Maybe ask it this way -
Can I legally put a 14" barreled rifle upper on a pistol lower?

It is not a rifle because the barrel is not 16"

It is not a pistol because it is over 26" in total

So it is a AOW - and I can put a vertical grip on it.

 

[835mag]

I always figured as long as it has a butt stock it better not have a barrel shorter that 16”. Switch out the stock for a buffer tube only or some type of approved brace and your good to go with a pistol length upper.

 

['Ol Grandad]

In WA., you buy a lower then you designate if it's going to be a short barreled rifle, rifle or handgun.
If you register it as a handgun, you can later switch out the barrel for a rifle BUT if you register it as a rifle, you cannot build it into a handgun later.
That's how I understand the laws in my state.

 

[Syclone0538]

Pretty sure an AOW is treated pretty similar to suppressors.

 

[garya1961]

Pretty sure an AOW is treated pretty similar to suppressors.

Nope, suppressors are NFA. You don't need a tax stamp for AOW.

 

[Syclone0538]

Nope, suppressors are NFA. You don't need a tax stamp for AOW.

 

[Z71bill]

View attachment 670464

I am not transferring anything - so do I still pay a transfer tax?

 

[flyover]

Nope, suppressors are NFA. You don't need a tax stamp for AOW.

AOW is, I think, how a Mossberg Shockwave shot gun is marked on the 4473.

 

[Syclone0538]

I'm sure there are people on here who have done it legally. I haven't and I'm not the best person to ask.

I always thought it was the same as suppressors. Are you "manufacturing" an AOW according to the ATF? Well you're starting with a receiver that is considered a gun in itself, so it'd be like converting an existing firearm into an AOW, which I'm pretty sure you can do, but I don't know what is required.

Clearly somebody has to pay the $5, and I'm assuming register it with the ATF in the process.

 

[Parzival]

Nope, suppressors are NFA. You don't need a tax stamp for AOW.

you are sadly mistaken here!

 

[Z71bill]

Wait - I may have this backasswards -

AOW is less than 26 inches - so it can be concealed -

If a gun is over 26" - so it can't be concealed - it is not an AOW

This stuff is messed up -

What do you call a gun without a stock (so not fired from your shoulder) but

Barrel less than 16" -

Can't be a rifle - so it must

Still be a pistol - but is not a pistol -

But since it is over 26" it is classified as a firearm - but not an NFA firearm and you can use a vertical grip?

I just want to know what I need to do to put a vertical grip on an AR type gun that is not a rifle and has a barrel less than 16 inches.

 

[Syclone0538]

Looks like you can make an AOW for $200, or transfer it for $5.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/am-i-required-register-my-pistol-if-i-want-put-vertical-fore-grip-it

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/o...-letter/all-ffls-may2006-open-letter-adding-vertical-fore-grip-handgun/download

 

[Z71bill]

AOW is, I think, how a Mossberg Shockwave shot gun is marked on the 4473.

It is not an AOW because it is 26.5" long

ATF classifies it as a firearm subject to GCA regs but is not NFA regulated firearm.

https://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Shockwave-Letter-from-ATF-3-2-17.pdf