[ChrisD46]

As the title states - please justify why in 2018 with such improvement in 9mm ammo ballistic characteristics you would rather have a .45ACP for self - defense instead of 9mm ? Does a big , slow moving bullet still have a place for modern self - defense applications ? Please explain ?

P.S. I am a current 9mm owner flirting with the .45ACP caliber ... Not a hater .

 

[Sechott]

I’ve taken my wife shooting several times to see what she likes best. She always says “the fat bullets”. Though she is taking up a liking for 40sw.

View: https://youtu.be/7gtTEEm1-1A

 

[-JCN-]

As the title states - please justify why in 2018 with such improvement in 9mm ammo ballistic characteristics you would rather have a .45ACP for self - defense instead of 9mm ? Does a big , slow moving bullet still have a place for modern self - defense applications ? Please explain ?

P.S. I am a current 9mm owner flirting with the .45ACP caliber ... Not a hater .

You’ve been reading too much hype.

9mm is great. But if you look at actual bullet weight and specific ammunition...

You’ll find that 45ACP has widely available ammunition that expands the same as a 9mm, but heavier weight and similar gel penetration.

But if you want it to, you can get ammunition that is heavy and huge expanding.

The only issue for me is size and capacity. For home defense where size isn’t an issue, I can use a higher capacity magazine.

The advantage (to me) is that if you’re wanting a supppressor host, you can pick ammo under 1100 fps that expands to 0.8”, weighs 220gr and still stays subsonic.

Big holes.

Left to right
22WMR, 380, 9mm, 45 ACP, 10mm

 

[Schaffer]

In 2018 when it's widely accepted that anything in a serviceable caliber will do, just pick one.

I'm forced to carry a 45 for work, but I'm not complaining. It works and I can shoot the gun I'm provided just fine. If i had my choice I'd carry a lot of 9mm. 9mm is cheaper, cheaper means you'll shoot more(hopefully) which means you should shoot it better.

 

[Lt. Donn]

I think this subject has been discussed extensively here on GT for years...among the many, many folks whom I instructed for their CHL's over the years, the sgl biggest issue was never about caliber or equipment...it was getting them to accept the idea of Every Day Carry...absolutely, all the time...without exception...the "other" issues like caliber choice, were always secondary

 

[CDW4ME]

As the title states - please justify why in 2018 with such improvement in 9mm ammo ballistic characteristics you would rather have a .45ACP for self - defense instead of 9mm ? Does a big , slow moving bullet still have a place for modern self - defense applications ? Please explain ?

45 got "improved" too, 9mm HST on dime, 45 is on a quarter for size reference:

Bigger holes have more potential to generate the desired result quicker.
I want as much ASAP potential in "modern" self defense as I did two decades ago.

 

[Spats McGee]

I just can't shake the feeling that .45 acp has probably benefited from the same technological advances in the last couple of decades that 9mm has. Here's how The Great Caliber War stacks up for me:

• I really enjoy shooting .45 acp.
• Even more, I really, really enjoy shooting it in my 1911.
• Sadly, my 1911 is the only gun I have chambered in .45.
• A worst-case scenario involves a failure of my SD bullet to expand. In that case, .45 is preferable on the "bigger holes are better than smaller holes" theory.
  
• I waited far, far too long to get a 1911 to consider trading it off.
  
• I don't particularly enjoy CC-in my 1911.
• I can shoot more 9mm than I can .45 acp for the same price.
• I can carry more 9mm than I can .45 for the same weight.
• I can carry my G19 or Shield far more comfortably than I can my 1911.

At the end of the day, it turns out that while I really like .45, I carry 9mm most of the time.

 

[nmglock]

The only reason I carry 9mm is for weight purposes. I want the lightest weight possible because of back problems

 

[G29guy06]

As the title states - please justify why in 2018 with such improvement in 9mm ammo ballistic characteristics you would rather have a .45ACP for self - defense instead of 9mm ? Does a big , slow moving bullet still have a place for modern self - defense applications ? Please explain ?

P.S. I am a current 9mm owner flirting with the .45ACP caliber ... Not a hater .

...actually....I’d prefer a 10mm and skip the .45....

Why? Because I’ve actually SEEN what 9mm does and doesn’t do...

Oh... and the +p (squared, cubed, whatever) stuff:

1) it’s like a sex toy- it may get you there but it’s not the same

2) we take something small, maybe add a slight bit extra weight maybe not, and make it travel faster....ever skipped rocks off the water?

 

[First shot]

"It's like a sex toy"... Somewhere G30SF/F250 just woke up and is not sure why...

 

[Bren]

As the title states - please justify why in 2018 with such improvement in 9mm ammo ballistic characteristics you would rather have a .45ACP for self - defense instead of 9mm ? Does a big , slow moving bullet still have a place for modern self - defense applications ? Please explain ?

P.S. I am a current 9mm owner flirting with the .45ACP caliber ... Not a hater .

Are you aware of some improvement in "9mm ammo ballistic characteristics" that doesn't also apply to .40 S&W or .45 ACP "ammo ballistic characteristics"?

if you are not, your question doesn't make much sense.

If .45 bullets with 80's tech were X better than 9mm bullets with 80's tech, then .45 bullets with 2018 tech are still X better than 9mm bullets with 2018 tech.

Also, while I am not a .45 fan (I prefer .40) I have learned since I got into competitive precision shooting that it is much easier to achieve a high degree of accuracy with .45 than with 9mm. I wish I could figure out why, and some people do build 9mm pistols that shoot sub-1" 50 yard groups, but for equal money with equal quality ammo, the .45 pretty much always wins.

 

[seanmac45]

I base my choice on my life experience. Having seen hundreds of mutts up and walking around after being hit my 9's, my choice has been .45 ACP since retiring. In 1982 I was in Kings County Hospital, guarding a prisoner. Down the hall comes a very skinny black male cuffed to a gurney, DRAGGING IT and demanding to know when he was going to be seen by a doctor. One wood shampoo later I asked his arresting officer, (who had left him unguarded for a bathroom break) what he was waiting to be seen for. He then pointed out five small holes in the perps chest. Seems he had been shot five times in the thoracic cavity with a 9mm. Didn't take much of the fight out of him.

That was not an isolated instance. Over the next twenty years I saw similar behavior in mutts who were hit well, but refused to acknowledge their 9 mm wounds. I can't say the same for the 45 recipients. They usually capitulated in a MUCH quicker time frame. Then I trained with Jeff Cooper at Gunsite in 92. Steel poppers took two 9mm hits to fall, but fell resoundingly upon being struck by one 45. All of these things put together gave me what we in police work call a CLUE.

As I explained to a very good friend two days ago when he inquired about my six 45 ACP pistols on my carry permit, being retired means;

• I am not wearing body armor
• I don't have an armed partner
• I don't have that magical little box marked "MOTOROLA" which allows me to invite 35,00 of my closest armed friends to the fight at the push of a button

Now I know that this is just my opinion, and that what works for me may not work for others. However, until something better comes along (I can't double tap nearly as fast with a 10 mm as I can with a 45) I will stick with the round that MIGHT not expand, but will never contract.

 

[TheDreadnought]

As the title states - please justify why in 2018 with such improvement in 9mm ammo ballistic characteristics you would rather have a .45ACP for self - defense instead of 9mm ? Does a big , slow moving bullet still have a place for modern self - defense applications ? Please explain ?

P.S. I am a current 9mm owner flirting with the .45ACP caliber ... Not a hater .

A lot of posts have touched on the advantages of .45 over 9mm, so I’ll just add a couple perspectives not mentioned.

First I don’t think the weight issue has merit. You’re carrying a mag or two for self defense. You’re not carrying a “go to war load.” Yes with 9mm you get more bullets for the same weight, but volume of fire isn’t your primary concern in a SD situation. In self defense you want the most effective hits early. It’s better to have bullets that do more damage over more bullets.

Second, I actually view .40 as the modern take on .45. You get most of the capacity of 9mm, most of the expansion of .45, and better penetration and volume of destroyed tissue than either. .45 actually gets too much of a good thing in expansion and penetrates too shallowly for my taste.

Finally, if you want to carry bullets that do more damage than 9mm, .40 is a better option than .45 since it’s a lot cheaper. You can practice a lot more with .40 for the same money over .45. Extra practice, regardless of caliber, is always a good thing.

 

[unit1069]

As the title states - please justify why in 2018 with such improvement in 9mm ammo ballistic characteristics you would rather have a .45ACP for self - defense instead of 9mm ? Does a big , slow moving bullet still have a place for modern self - defense applications ? Please explain ?

P.S. I am a current 9mm owner flirting with the .45ACP caliber ... Not a hater .

For self-defense (assuming against human predators) choose whichever caliber you prefer. Both calibers have been dealing with dangerous scenarios for over one hundred years, and ballistics improvements have benefited each.

 

[orangejeep06]

I base my choice on my life experience. Having seen hundreds of mutts up and walking around after being hit my 9's, my choice has been .45 ACP since retiring. In 1982 I was in Kings County Hospital, guarding a prisoner. Down the hall comes a very skinny black male cuffed to a gurney, DRAGGING IT and demanding to know when he was going to be seen by a doctor. One wood shampoo later I asked his arresting officer, (who had left him unguarded for a bathroom break) what he was waiting to be seen for. He then pointed out five small holes in the perps chest. Seems he had been shot five times in the thoracic cavity with a 9mm. Didn't take much of the fight out of him.

That was not an isolated instance. Over the next twenty years I saw similar behavior in mutts who were hit well, but refused to acknowledge their 9 mm wounds. I can't say the same for the 45 recipients. They usually capitulated in a MUCH quicker time frame. Then I trained with Jeff Cooper at Gunsite in 92. Steel poppers took two 9mm hits to fall, but fell resoundingly upon being struck by one 45. All of these things put together gave me what we in police work call a CLUE.

As I explained to a very good friend two days ago when he inquired about my six 45 ACP pistols on my carry permit, being retired means;

• I am not wearing body armor
• I don't have an armed partner
• I don't have that magical little box marked "MOTOROLA" which allows me to invite 35,00 of my closest armed friends to the fight at the push of a button

Now I know that this is just my opinion, and that what works for me may not work for others. However, until something better comes along (I can't double tap nearly as fast with a 10 mm as I can with a 45) I will stick with the round that MIGHT not expand, but will never contract.

“wood shampoo”, too funny,gotta remember that one

 

[srjdsmith]

I think your starting premise is incorrect. The “improved performance” of modern 9mm isn’t there. As one of the first responses says, both 9mm and .45 ACP have been doing their jobs for decades, and they both do what they do. 10mm and .40 S&W are newer and they do what they do. But it’s not like 9mm is better than it ever was. There’s new bullet technology- for all calibers- and still each individual picks the gun/ammo they believe will do the job. But today’s .45 acp and 9mm are very similar to the BALLISTICS from the early 1900’s with some advances in bullet technology on all sides.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fredj338]

I have always been a 45 guy, but, if the goal is 60cal+ hole going 14-18", then there is a good argument for todays well designed 9mm jhp. Smaller guns for ccw with more rds available & just flat easier to shoot fast & accurate in any platform. In states that do not allow jhp, then a 45 all day; bigger bullet bigger hole. So if you just want a 45, go for it. With good jhp it is slightly more effective on target than a 9 or 40, but only if you can shoot it as well & most shooters just can not, not without a lot more trigger time.

 

[fredj338]

I base my choice on my life experience. Having seen hundreds of mutts up and walking around after being hit my 9's, my choice has been .45 ACP since retiring. In 1982 I was in Kings County Hospital, guarding a prisoner. Down the hall comes a very skinny black male cuffed to a gurney, DRAGGING IT and demanding to know when he was going to be seen by a doctor. One wood shampoo later I asked his arresting officer, (who had left him unguarded for a bathroom break) what he was waiting to be seen for. He then pointed out five small holes in the perps chest. Seems he had been shot five times in the thoracic cavity with a 9mm. Didn't take much of the fight out of him.

That was not an isolated instance. Over the next twenty years I saw similar behavior in mutts who were hit well, but refused to acknowledge their 9 mm wounds. I can't say the same for the 45 recipients. They usually capitulated in a MUCH quicker time frame. Then I trained with Jeff Cooper at Gunsite in 92. Steel poppers took two 9mm hits to fall, but fell resoundingly upon being struck by one 45. All of these things put together gave me what we in police work call a CLUE.

As I explained to a very good friend two days ago when he inquired about my six 45 ACP pistols on my carry permit, being retired means;

• I am not wearing body armor
• I don't have an armed partner
• I don't have that magical little box marked "MOTOROLA" which allows me to invite 35,00 of my closest armed friends to the fight at the push of a button

Now I know that this is just my opinion, and that what works for me may not work for others. However, until something better comes along (I can't double tap nearly as fast with a 10 mm as I can with a 45) I will stick with the round that MIGHT not expand, but will never contract.

The discussion posed is based on modern jhp not 1982 designs, which is why the 9mm was always lacking back in the day.

 

[fredj338]

I think your starting premise is incorrect. The “improved performance” of modern 9mm isn’t there. As one of the first responses says, both 9mm and .45 ACP have been doing their jobs for decades, and they both do what they do. 10mm and .40 S&W are newer and they do what they do. But it’s not like 9mm is better than it ever was. There’s new bullet technology- for all calibers- and still each individual picks the gun/ammo they believe will do the job. But today’s .45 acp and 9mm are very similar to the BALLISTICS from the early 1900’s with some advances in bullet technology on all sides.


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The entire discussion is about bullet tech. After placement, The bullet is everything. Design it right, exoands to 60cal + & with enough mass, penetrates deeper. Yes it is easier to get that with a bigger bullet but you increase recoil. So to reduce recoil you go bigger/heavier gun. That is the issue to consider. I let the platform decide caliber. Small light wt guns, 9 is just easier to get fast goid hits with. I like the 45 just fine, but make the gun smaller, throw in +p to add back some vel, most will not be doing their best shooting. Smallest gun I like in 45 is my xd45c. 10+1 in a compact package that is manageable with std 45acp ammo. Still, I shoot my g26 just a bit faster with identical shot placement. True for most people.

 

[BuckyP]

Bullet for bullet, .45. Then again, it’s no where near as easy to carry 16 loaded (ie not to include an extra mag) .45s as it is 9mms. That’s why I like .40.