Not sure I'm buying what this guy is selling. The IIIA threat protection level is 1450 fps with regular types of ammo which means it protects up to and including 357 Mag. The 1250 fps velocity out of the 9mm carbine would likely not even be enough to defeat IIA armor. Even with the use of bullets designed to penetrate "barriers" a velocity above 1250 fps would very likely be needed to defeat a IIIA vest.

 

He demonstrates in the video. Really don't think he's going to the effort of faking it. Why would he?

 

Some folks may have some uninformed or unrealistic expectations about "body armor". Perhaps we have Hollywood and some "news" programs to thank. Dunno.

If anyone has ever had actual questions about how the armor is tested, the reasons for the testing used and the number of stops versus perforations in testing, they could find a lot of the NIJ info online and read through it. It's been revised from time to time. Some of the documents are long, but worth the time, if someone is interested in how and why it's done.

Body armor is designed and tested taking into account what's considered likely to be current or possible threats.

Some easily found links from different times.

https://justnet.org/pdf/Understanding-Armor-Protection.pdf
https://www.justnet.org/pdf/Riley_NIJArmorWorkshop20080508.pdf
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/223054.pdf
https://www.justnet.org/pdf/NIJ-BA-CTP-MFG-Applicant-Package-rev15-2013-06-17.pdf

Naturally, the condition of the particular panel, how it's fitted and situated, and how long its been exposed to various environmental and mechanical forces has an influence on how well it will withstand an impact, or maybe a few impacts.

Bottom line? Try not to get shot, even if wearing armor.

 

Ummm... the CX4 has 11" more barrel length than a 92FS. Only gained 200fps? That's horrible. Just the limitation of the ammo that it doesn't gain that much benefit with a longer barrel.

 

I may be wrong, but some .357 Mag ammo best 1500 FPS, or more out of a 4" barrel. That's moving in my book, and I don't want to be shot at with it whether I'm wearing a vest or not. Besides, they may hit me in the head or groin which would be just as fatal........

 

Armor protection levels are confusing. IIIA isn't for anything but pistol rounds, and not fast ones at that.
I don't know about the 200 FPS increase being all that, but it does show.
Barrel length is going to help only to a point and won't do the things some would like you to believe.

 

Vests degrade with time, wear and tear, and exposure to the sun.

 

+1
Not all vests are created equal - LOL!
My Bianchi LE IIIa vest is rated to stop a 44 Magnum.
9mm carbine isn't going to cut it.
Really need 5.56 NATO or some other true rifle caliber to shred a quality LE IIIa vest.
My understanding is that's why LE have have mostly replaced 9mm MP5s with 5.56 SBRs.

Yep...some are looking at 300 Blackout to make sure that if there is a hit the perp can hopefully stay down...

Even with a IIIA vest there still is trauma from the impact unless you get a pad to soften the blow....

 

The smaller the caliber, the easier it slips through the fibers. That's what they told us years ago.

 

Interesting. I always knew that a pistol caliber carbine was a great tool for improving the lethality of handgun rounds.

This video confirms you can get about a 200fps improvement from using a carbine. The really interesting thing is that the performance gain is enough to penetrate 3a body armor.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ia1k1Zg4l2A

The issue is the multi-hit.

I've tested all kinds of armor and really, you need to do a single shot in an uncompromised area.

A 9mm pistol caliber carbine will not penetrate 3A with a single shot with traditional JHP.

Multiple shots in the same area will, even with a standard pistol.

They sell individual squares of 3A for this kind of testing. I have done it and I can tell you that a second hit in the area is much different than the first one.

That's a single hit. Caught by the fibers.... the second hit anywhere in that area will snap the already stretched fibers.

I like Paul's channel, but he is not very smart with his testing methodology.

 

Vests degrade with time, wear and tear, and exposure to the sun.

Yes when he said he was "running out of vests" to test it make me think that maybe he had picked up several old used vests on the cheap to use for testing. If the vests were degraded from years of use it might explain why a 9mm at 1250 could defeat them.

 

I can easily get 1450+ out of my 9mm AR

The guy doing the testing was only getting 1250 fps but even at 1450 fps with regular ammo the IIIA vest is rated to protect against this velocity. It you are interested in defeating IIIA armor AND STILL have enough energy left to deliver a lethal hit from handgun ammo. I would suggest visiting the Underwood Ammo site and checking out their XP and XD rounds, especially the 357 Sig and 10mm varieties.

 

We used to be a IIA or II agency.

When I switched us to 357SIG I switched us to IIIA body armor.

I don't have any old IIA armor to shoot but our old II armor stops our duty round (Win Ranger).

 

A. Improperly supported vest (which nullifies his findings, as you can make a vest pass or fail by supporting it incorrectly.)

B. Certification date/exp date of vest and handling? (Likely shooting an expired and degraded vest.)


9mm, even extremely hot ammo, will generally not make it through a serviceable IIIa vest, short of specialty AP ammo, which is not readily available to American civilians.

Repeated hits might, but I've also seen soft armor stop a mag full from an MP-5 at close range without a penetration so it's not a for sure thing.



Has a lot to do with why the SMG went away and the SBR has replaced it.

 

The shape, hardness and speed of the bullet really
helps.

Many handguns can be made to shoot through
a vest with one shot, even the 9mm, but that would be illegal.

 

Vests degrade with time, wear and tear, and exposure to the sun.

Especially if it has any Zylon in it.

I went through 3 vests in a few years during that whole mess.

 

You can bet your bippy there are cops and security out there wearing body armor that should be replaced.

 

Body armor is like vaccines.

They won't prevent you from getting shot
They may not work- you can still die or be badly injured
They reduce the risk, but only if the bullets travel into the armor before hitting you - and only against certain bullets fired in a certain way
They are limited if multiple bullets are coming into the same spot.
The armor itself can injure or kill you from deflection, even if the bullet does not penetrate.
They only cover a small part of your body - the uncovered parts can bleed fatally, or be a pathway to your core.

 

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised that 9mm PCCs can defeat 3A body armor. 🤪

But Necro threads are often amusing.

 

Winchester Ranger 9mm 197gr +P+, fired from a handgun, will also penetrate some soft body armor.

I wouldn't be surprised if Underwood Xtreme Penetrator +P+ will penetrate soft body armor when fired from a handgun.

The DEA/FBI body armor standards are superior to the NIJ standard.