I have early 1990s Silvertips 115. Is it better to get HST or PDX lately at 124? Probably not the biggest difference

 

Winchester SilvernTip is definitely NOT!!! My first choice for EDC ammo…it’s outdated and their are much better options on the civilian market…I’ve also Tested Federal HST 147 grain and Winchester PDX1 124 grain +P both performed picture perfect in my Micro shield9 short 3” barrel just like box claimed if not even better

 

I don’t carry it for EDC, but can attest it’s a very accurate round in my G19.5.

 

I think it'll work fine, but not if you miss.

 

I haven’t seen a box of those in a long time. I didn’t think they were still made.

 

They are. We carry them in my store.

 

There are modern bullet designs from quite a few manufacturers which perform better.

For a bit of trivia: that's the ammo Agent Jerry Dove had in his S&W pistol in the Miami shootout. Dove hit Platt with the shot which was discussed at great length in the analysis of the gunfight. There's lots of info about that on the web.

[EDIT]
I'm wrong about Dove's ammo. Further down this thread you'll find more info.
[/EDIT]

 

There are modern bullet designs from quite a few manufacturers which perform better.

For a bit of trivia: that's the ammo Agent Jerry Dove had in his S&W pistol in the Miami shootout. Dove hit Platt with the shot which was discussed at great length in the analysis of the gunfight. There's lots of info about that on the web.

The name is the same but it's not the same bullet.

The bullet fired by Dove had an aluminum jacket, hence the name "Silvertip". Newer Silvertip bullet designs use a nickel-plated copper jacket.

There are probably subtler changes too, such as hardness of the lead core, skiving of the jacket ogive, and dimensions and shape of the hollowpoint cavity.

 

I carried 9mm Silvertips (off the job) in the 80s and maybe early 90s when the 147grain was available (It might be again, I have a vague memory of seeing some available not long ago.) Better choices today for 115.

 

115 Silvertip the 9mm bullet that gave rise to 10mm and 40.

 

The newer version is upgraded. I saw a video of the 80s version compared to a newly manufactured box and it was night and day.

Wouldn’t be my first choice, but if that’s all I had, I would feel just fine.

 

Definitely wouldn't be my first choice but I'd take it over nothing at all. The 147 silver tips would probably do alot better.

 

Old style copper jacketed cup & core JHP, albeit nickel-plated, is 80's technology. Doesn't mean it won't fire and 'work'. Still sold as a defensive JHP in Winchester's commercial product line. Might not meet all the current protocols in gel/barrier ammunition testing used by LE/Gov, though.

 

I do have Winchester 9mm ammo for my EDC, but it is the Winchester USA Ready defensive line. You can also go online with the specific box info, and they have performance stats for it. As well it has gotten good reviews on various tests etc.

 

Good stuff, especially for compact and subcompact 9mm pistols. I chronographed six. They averaged almost exactly the speed stated for the lot number when it was tested at the factory.

 

Might not be the latest and greatest, but it's what's in my Shield and G19s. I won't lose any sleep about it.

 

Go out and get some Gold Dots or HST’s

 

Seems a little light on penetration to me. I usually carry UW 124gr +P JHP these days and they chronograph at an actual 1142 fps from my 3.1" bbl Shield Plus.

 

Not at all scientific or an accepted means of testing ammunition, but Paul Harrell tested current 115 gr Silvertip against some 115 gr Silvertip from the ~1980s. As noted already, it's a different bullet now. Velocity is the same. The new 115 gr Silvertip holds together better and expands more consistently than the old stuff. Penetration may be a little better, but it still penetrates on the short end of the 9mm spectrum (like most 115 gr JHPs usually do).

 

Long ago, a big fat guy walked into our ER with three 9mm Silvertips in his chest. They didn't penetrate anything of importance. The doctors removed them, kept him overnight and let him go the next day.

He did say they hurt like hell.

 

I have early 1990s Silvertips 115. Is it better to get HST or PDX lately at 124? Probably not the biggest difference

I'm a big fan of standard pressure 124 gr Federal HST (although the 124 gr +P is fine too). The Fed HST expands well and reliably while penetrating toward the deeper end of the FBI-recommended 12-18 inches in ballistic gel. If you still want Silvertip for some reason, it appears that modern Silvertip has benefitted from the last 30-40 years of ammunition development.

 

I have never been a fan of 115gr anything for SD. I feel there just isnt enough mass to support expansion & penetration. Sure one can design a 115grJHP to expand a bit less & them still get penetration, like an XTP, but anything less than 14" is just not enough imo. Put a forearm in front of a big guys chest. it wont likely penetrate enough to insure vital tissue crush.

 

Silvertips will often feed where other hp rounds will not.
Of course it can't penetrate when it expands like the rounds shown!

 

Rem GS are pretty feed friendly in something that wont feed other JHP.

 

I used to put them in my .380 eons ago and still have a few for my 1911. I've moved on to HST 147gr in my 9mm.

 

Im running 147 grain Silvertips. I find them to be good to go.

 

Yep.

 

I carried SilverTips in my .32 Beretta back in the 90s. I'm pretty sure they had aluminum jackets. Never shot anything but paper, so I have no idea how they performed as far as penetration, but being a .32, I doubt it was anything but anemic.

 

I recently started carrying 147gr SilverTips in my EDC Glock 43’s (with modified mags) primarily for one reason: they go “bang” every time I pull the trigger. They are accurate (for me, at least) and they subjectively “feel good” (controllable muzzle flip and recoil).

I like Federal HST 124gr+P in all my other 9mm Glocks (including my G26 when I EDC it), and it functions flawlessly in all of them, but my G43’s don’t seem to like it (occasional failures-to-feed).

The G43’s do, however, love the 147gr SilverTips, so I’m comfortable carrying it. I know the ballistics testing shows it to be slightly less penetrative than some other SD ammo, but I’m confident a few well-placed shots would get the job done quite effectively.

With regard to the 115gr SilverTips, I like them as well, and they are a little speedier. My G43’s simply don’t like them as well as they do the 147’s, but if they work for your guns, I say go for it!

Both the 147’s and 115’s are quality SD ammo at a reasonable price.

 

I have a fun stick filled with all the old ones I had. I hope to never need it.

 

Last time I carried any Silvertip ammo was around 2004 or 05. I bought a Glock 37, and the only defensive/carry .45 GAP ammo at the shop was Winchester Silvertips, I believe 185 gr HP. So I bought a couple of boxes. Shot one box through the gun and used the second box for carry ammo.

I called my 37 "Betsy the Vampire Slayer".

 

Old technology and way overpriced usually. If you like 115 gr, Speer Gold Dot is a better option and does well in most testing.

 

Winchester doesn't release any testing of their commercial line ammunition like they do their LE Ranger lines (in the online LE catalog).

However, Vista does for their Speer and Federal LE lines, and that still includes the standard pressure 115gr GDHP. Just use this link to choose Handgun, and check the boxes of any of the loads desired to see a 'poster' comparison in the standard FBI test protocols.

Law Enforcement - Federal Premium LE, Speer LE, BLACKHAWK!, Eagle - Load Comparison

LE Wound Ballistics. Speer and Federal Premium pioneered the use of Wound Ballistic Workshops as a service to police departments nationwide. Utilizing the FBI Ammunition Testing Protocol, firearms training officers test ammunition side-by-side to make informed decisions on the duty ammunition...

le.vistaoutdoor.com

 

Back in the 80's the Silver Tips were all the rage. I had them in 9mm, 45 Auto and 38 Special and Super. In the early 2000's I picked up some new 38 Specials and a box of 38 Super.
I still have them. But, they are in my emergency stock pile. These days I carry Underwoods. But, with them not using Gold Dot's I have been buying HST's now.