usually, weight, speed, energy, penetration...how much those differences make...I predict you will get plenty of feedback in this thread...

good luck,

Bill

 

.380
90 to 100 grain bullet
Velocity is about 850 to 1,000 feet per second
With good JHP bullets, the bullet will expand decent

9mm
100 to 140+ grain bullet
Velocity is about 1,050 to 1,250 FPS.
With good JHP bullets, the bullet will expand decent


Kind of like being hit by a compact or full size car. Both can kill you. By some small measure the full size car may be more likely to kill you.


In any case, the proficiency of the shooter is far more important than the caliber.
It makes no difference what caliber you are missing the target with.

 

From an article..
"SAAMI industry-standard catalog specifications for the two cartridges rate the 380 at approximately 950 fps velocity and 200 foot-pounds (ft-lbs) energy for JHP bullets in the 90- to 100-grain weight range while the 9mm (which is offered in a much wider range of bullet weights and styles) is specced at 1150 fps and 340 ft-lbs energy with a 115-grain JHP bullet and 990 fps and 320 ft-lbs energy with heavier 147-grain JHP subsonic loads. In raw energy terms alone, then, the 9mm has about a 65 percent advantage. (Standard four-inch ballistic test barrels are employed for the SAAMI ratings for both cartridges.) "

Here is the link to the entire article..
http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aast9mmv380a.htm

 

From an article..
"SAAMI industry-standard catalog specifications for the two cartridges rate the 380 at approximately 950 fps velocity and 200 foot-pounds (ft-lbs) energy for JHP bullets in the 90- to 100-grain weight range while the 9mm (which is offered in a much wider range of bullet weights and styles) is specced at 1150 fps and 340 ft-lbs energy with a 115-grain JHP bullet and 990 fps and 320 ft-lbs energy with heavier 147-grain JHP subsonic loads. In raw energy terms alone, then, the 9mm has about a 65 percent advantage. (Standard four-inch ballistic test barrels are employed for the SAAMI ratings for both cartridges.) "

Here is the link to the entire article..
http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aast9mmv380a.htm

How much is the 9mm giving up in that inch of barrel?

 

Has there been any test done on the best 380 rounds vs the best 9mm rounds out the same sized guns?

 

For the 380 haters out there I always tell people I would not want to get shot in the chest with a 380. Next, when I don't feel the need to carry, I just put a LCP in my front pocket, otherwise my general carry gun is some sort of 45.

 

This looks like a discussion for the guy in black BDU's leaning on the counter at the local gun shop.
:mallninja:

 

This looks like a discussion for the guy in black BDU's leaning on the counter at the local gun shop.
:mallninja:

Bingo,give that man a cigar. SJ 40

 

Yes - on the fast follow up 2nd shot UNDER STRESS and REQUIRING A SPEED DRAW (bad grip possible) you will most likely be less accurate with a 9mm. That goes double if you had to use one hand.

Many will reply that they are just as accurate on the second shot with a 380 or 9mm. That is at the range - not under the stress of someone shooting at them or attacking them with a knife.

 

Bingo,give that man a cigar. SJ 40

Make it a cigarello since he seems to like little small things:rofl:

 

For the 380 haters out there I always tell people I would not want to get shot in the chest with a 380. Next, when I don't feel the need to carry, I just put a LCP in my front pocket, otherwise my general carry gun is some sort of 45.

'don't want to be shot with'.. aw geeze man, I don't want to be shot with a .22 short, so what?

My Glock 26, 3.42 inch bbl, gets from my chrono 1240 fps using Winchester +p+ 127 gr JHP.

Even standard pressure 124gr ball (Buffalo Bore) gets:
1037 fps -- S&W Shield with 3.1 inch barrel

And 147gr jhp gets:
932 fps -- Sig P938, 3.0-inch

So does the .380 get anywhere near that with even a 90 gr jhp?

Best Buffalo Bore does with a 90 is:
Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel-----1200 fps
Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel---1123 fps
Keltec---1100 fps

So, no, the .380 is no where near a 9mm in any shape or form.

But then I've always felt the .380/.32 was more of a 'always' walk-around gun, like a .38 J snub.

Deaf

 

'don't want to be shot with'.. aw geeze man, I don't want to be shot with a .22 short, so what?

My Glock 26, 3.42 inch bbl, gets from my chrono 1240 fps using Winchester +p+ 127 gr JHP.

Even standard pressure 124gr ball (Buffalo Bore) gets:
1037 fps -- S&W Shield with 3.1 inch barrel

And 147gr jhp gets:
932 fps -- Sig P938, 3.0-inch

So does the .380 get anywhere near that with even a 90 gr jhp?

Best Buffalo Bore does with a 90 is:
Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel-----1200 fps
Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel---1123 fps
Keltec---1100 fps

So, no, the .380 is no where near a 9mm in any shape or form.

But then I've always felt the .380/.32 was more of a 'always' walk-around gun, like a .38 J snub.

Deaf

Yeah the whole
"I don't want to be shot with" argument is too funny.
But I've noticed the mouse gun proponents have a whole slew of bs reasons that justifies their convoluted decision to carry tiny calibers.

 

So does the .380 get anywhere near that with even a 90 gr jhp?


Deaf

You are correct but for the wrong reasons.

In the FBI Gel tests most 380s do not meet the 12" standard - I think the Hornady Critical Defense does.

http://brassfetcher.com/

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/380auto.html

 

I don't have a 3" barrel .380; however, i do have a 3" barrel Kahr MK9. I chrono'ed the Kahr and with 147 Gr HST, I got an average of about 932 fps. With Gold Dot 124 gr. +p, I got an average of about 1056 fps. By the way, I do not use 115 grain bullets for defensive purposes. I tend to prefer heavier weight bullets in a given caliber.

I doubt that a 3" .380 will even come close when you consider weight and velocity. The only .380 I carry when I want something real small and light is my Kel Tec P3AT with around 90-95 grain bullets that I have not chrono'ed.

So, in my opinion, for whatever it may be worth, I would take the 3" 9mm over the 3" or any size barrel .380 any day, unless the situation dictates an extremely small and lightweight pistol such as the Kel Tec P3AT. Anything bigger and heavier than the Kel Tec would make me chose a small 9mm every time.

 

This looks like a discussion for the guy in black BDU's leaning on the counter at the local gun shop.
:mallninja:

Yes - on the fast follow up 2nd shot UNDER STRESS and REQUIRING A SPEED DRAW (bad grip possible) you will most likely be less accurate with a 9mm. That goes double if you had to use one hand.

Many will reply that they are just as accurate on the second shot with a 380 or 9mm. That is at the range - not under the stress of someone shooting at them or attacking them with a knife.

Someone stepped right up to prove Bren right....:whistling:

 

Someone stepped right up to prove Bren right....:whistling:

How so?

 

:rofl:

Someone stepped right up to prove Bren right....:whistling:

 

How much is the 9mm giving up in that inch of barrel?

If you want to use a 380 just do so. If you want to kid yourself that 380 = 9mm than do so.

Here is some 9mm Para info.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

And is is some 380 info.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/380auto.html

Do the results look even remotely similar to you? I like my LCP and Glock 42 but I don't think for one second that either one will perform equal with what my Kahr MK9, Ruger LC9 or Beretta Nano can do.

 

...


In any case, the proficiency of the shooter is far more important than the caliber.
It makes no difference what caliber you are missing the target with.

Because this bears repeating.

 

Because this bears repeating.

true dat.

 

There have been so many recent .380 ACP thread topics that I've not been able to keep track of which ones I've read or in which I've posted comments.

I think M2 Carbine pretty much covered the basic concept in his post.

In any case, the proficiency of the shooter is far more important than the caliber.
It makes no difference what caliber you are missing the target with.

Is the .380 ACP up to the same ballistic performance levels of the standard 9mm? Of course not. Is it even equal to the .38 Spl? Probably not, at least when it comes to the .38 Spl being able to fire heavier bullet weights.

Personally, I think that once you choose a quality example from among the growing breed of diminutive .380's ... and confirm your example is reliable with the ammo you use ... it really comes down to how well you can use the little .380, meaning consistently accurately and effectively.

Focus on maintaining the little gun properly, honing your skillset and cultivating a practical mindset so you can fight with the little gun under stress and difficult conditions.

It's a .380 ACP. It is what it is. It's not a 9mm or a .38 Spl (or anything else that's larger, more powerful or fires a heavier bullet).

You ever see some folks shot and either killed or paralyzed with the .380 caliber, you hopefully realize it's not some leisurely hypothetical "ballistic performance" gun counter ninja/commando debate. There are very real potential consequences when rounds are fired in the real world.

I often tell some of the folks I help on training & qual ranges that it's less about the particular caliber & ammo, and more about them being able to effectively use it, that really matters when the rubber meets the road.

 

Yes - on the fast follow up 2nd shot UNDER STRESS and REQUIRING A SPEED DRAW (bad grip possible) you will most likely be less accurate with a 9mm. That goes double if you had to use one hand.

Many will reply that they are just as accurate on the second shot with a 380 or 9mm. That is at the range - not under the stress of someone shooting at them or attacking them with a knife.

I don't buy that. Perhaps that might be true if you had .380 and 9mm pistols of equal size, weight and action type. But since most .380s are smaller and lighter than their 9mm counterparts, and use a blowback action instead of a locked breech, they are more difficult to shoot fast and accurately than a comparable pocket-sized 9mm IMO.

 

There have been so many recent .380 ACP thread topics that I've not been able to keep track of which ones I've read or in which I've posted comments.

I think M2 Carbine pretty much covered the basic concept in his post.

Get prepared for being called

the guy in black BDU's leaning on the counter at the local gun shop.
:mallninja:

 

I don't buy that. Perhaps that might be true if you had .380 and 9mm pistols of equal size, weight and action type. But since most .380s are smaller and lighter than their 9mm counterparts, and use a blowback action instead of a locked breech, they are more difficult to shoot fast and accurately than a comparable pocket-sized 9mm IMO.

Talk about stating the obvious. We all know that subcomact .380 & 9mm do not weigh the same.

Go shoot a Keltec pf9 and akeltec p3at and then get back to us.

 

Get prepared for being called

Dunno about that. You'll notice I didn't disagree with his short and concise comment.

Bren may cause some indigestion for some folks from time to time (I suspect it's often intentional ), but he has a (dry) sense of humor and his line of work and experience has exposed him to the more practical sides of issues such as this one.