For starters I don't give too much credit to ballistic testing. It's too sterile of an environment. That being said it is still a good way to begin researching a round. I have seen test results of various handgun rounds, and the 357 sig doesn't impress me. It has the same or even less penetration as the 9, 40, and 45 depending on the weight of bullet used. It has a smaller or similar wound channel as the 9mm. These tests are with standerd loads, not +p in the 9 or 45. I'm sure someone will have seen completely different results, that's the nature of ballistic testing. I think the 40 and 45 are much better rounds. The heavier ones have planty of penetration, and they make larger holes. Besides, with the 40 you get the same size weapon and magazine capacity with a larger and heavier bullet.

 

Sterile environment ballistic gel test:

 

I guess what got me to thinking was that right now I carry a .40 caliber (the real version) and what draws me to the .357 Sig is the opportunity for increased accuracy, the same extreme velocity, deep penetration the 10mm I have currently provides me with and all in a much SMALLER/comfortable/more concealable package. I have seen what sort of tissue damage the Sig round can do verses a 124gr 9mm and I think with the increased velocity it stands to reason that the .357 Sig is a more devastating bullet.

I checked out Buffalo Bore's offerings and here's what they got:

Heavy 357 Sig. Low Flash Pistol and Handgun Ammo - 125 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1,425fps/M.E. 564 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box

Because you requested it, Buffalo Bore is now producing two full power 357 Sig. loads. These loads are full power 357 Sig. Not the watered down stuff that other factories are already producing. Why is it that a new cartridge gets developed with touted ballistics in the media, only to have the ammo manufacturers "water" it down after a few years on the market? (The same thing happened with the original 10MM) The 357 Sig. was designed to blast a 125gr. bullet at 1,425 FPS out of a four inch carry gun barrel. (Not a much longer test barrel) So, that is what both our loadings do.

We use flash suppressed powder so that you wont be blinded by your own gun fire should you be required to drop the hammer in low light. Since over 90% of civilian shootings in America happen in low light, flash suppressed ammunition is a huge tactical advantage.

Item 25A utilizes the 125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point bullet. It is designed to open radically and penetrate roughly 12 to 14 inches in human tissue. Note my velocities from my real world pistol, (not a test barrel) below.

a. Sig. Mod. 229, 4 inch barrel - 1,430 fps (567 ft. lbs.)

Item 25B utilizes a 124gr. FMJ flat nose bullet at 1,425 fps. This bullet will smash through typical stick frame walls, car doors and a bears skull or shoulder bones. It is designed for those who need deep penetration. It should penetrate 24+ inches in human tissue. If I were carrying a 357 Sig. for defense, I would carry my pistol with our 125gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) loaded in the chamber and the top 4 or 5 rounds in the magazine. The remaining rounds in the magazine would be these FMJ flat nose loads. Why? After the first few rounds are fired in a fight, most opponents will be dead or behind cover. The FMJ flat nose loads will penetrate many types of cover that would stop a hollow nose bullet. Note my velocities, from my real world pistol, (not a test barrel) below.

a. Sig. Mod. 229, 4 inch barrel - 1,433 fps (575 ft. lbs.)

 

Everything is a trade off/compromise. I carry both, but most of the time it is the .357 sig. I have found the G32 and G29 to be similar in accuracy and are very close in size with the 29 being a bit wider. Capacity goes to the 32. My real deciding factor is contollability. I can get faster and more accurate follow up shots with the 32. On a more subjective note, I figure that if the .357 sig is good enough for the TX DPS then it must have something going for it!

 

I'm going to try and get a few different offerings for my G33 this summer when I'm done coaching ball for a while and see how they do on the chrony and against some barrier test. I know from testing my Sig 229 357sig against my Sig 226 9mm that the 357 GDHP made much larger holes and a good bit deeper penetration than my Cor Bon 9mm and it clocked even with Fed .357 mag from my Ruger. From the field reports I've seen I have no desire to carry anything else....but I do want a G29 in case I am attacked by Zombies in an M1Abrams.

 

Push a 155gr JHP @ 1400fps & things start getting interesting. That is about as fast as most 357sig ammo goes w/ a lighter bullet, less momentum, same SD. Plus the 10mm can push a 200gr JHP @ 1200fps, much deeper penetrating than a 125gr 9mm. Of course recoil is higher but if you can shoot it, I think the 10mm has a clear advantage as a woods round. Then again, I would carry a 4" 44mag & not even think twice.

 

My real deciding factor is contollability. I can get faster and more accurate follow up shots with the 32

Having never shot .357 Sig how does it stack up recoil/snapwise against the 10mm? You say you can control it better, so I'm assuming there's MUCH less muzzle flip with this round, but how much less are we talking? Is it down to .40S&W snap or even less? Thanks for the help guys =) Keep it coming!

 

A little Google time and you could answer your own question.

 

The goal of the .357 SIG project was to offer a level of performance equal to the highly effective 125 grains (8.1 g) .357 Magnum load. The .357 SIG accomplishes this with a 125 grains (8.1 g) bullet at a muzzle velociy of 1,450 feet per second (440 m/s) out of a 4 in (102 mm) barrel, which is generally identical to the velocity achieved by standard factory 125 grains (8.1 g) .357 Magnum loads out of a 4 in (102 mm) revolver barrel.
*Thank you Wikipedia

It appears that the loadings have gotten less intense since its introduction back in 1994 like what the guys at Buffalo Bore said... What major ammunition manufacturer can you buy a 125gr bullet that gets pushed at 1450fps...?

 

It appears that the loadings have gotten less intense since its introduction back in 1994 like what the guys at Buffalo Bore said... What major ammunition manufacturer can you buy a 125gr bullet that gets pushed at 1450fps...?

Well if my handloads were for sale you could break 1500 out of a sig 229 but I wouldnt want to take on the liability of someone having a KB. BB, Double Tap, and corbon are the way to go if you want performance in the 357 sig.

 

Well if my handloads were for sale you could break 1500 out of a sig 229

I will be reloading if I go with this round and it will be getting shot out of the Glock 32 (4.02'' barrel) so I'm guessing similar velocities would be available...? Would you tell me your recipe and I could load my own releasing you of any liability? Sort of a "load at your own risk" kind of thing...? What type/size bullet do you use for this loading and what is the reason for the round... target/SD/Woods/something else?

corbon are the way to go if you want performance in the 357 sig

What are the reasons for this? Are you talking the DPX rounds or a different HP?

 

.357sig is nice, but it ain't no 10mm. 767ft lbs from DT's website with a 135grn bullet or reload data pushing that same bullet to 750ft lbs outta the g29 with 800X. Or how bout almost 1000ft lbs from a 6" bbl with that bullet weight? Of course the energy will go down as the bullet weight goes up since you are robbing the case of it's capacity... but you get the picture.

 

I visited the LGS today...

My current CCW/Woods/SHTF gun...

What, pray tell, is an 'LGS'?

What's a 'SHTF' gun?

------------------------------------

I too am seriously considering a couple guns in 357 Sig. One would be the G32, exactly what you're considering for a carry gun. The other is a Lone Wolf 357 Sig barrel for my 40-cal. G35.

Seems there are several great PD bullets available; if I buy a G32, I'll start with the 124g. Hornady XTP (just $14.19/100 at Midway right now) and also the more-expensive Speer 125g. GD (about $20/100). AA#9 seems to be the high-velocity powder of choice, while I'll start with LongShot since I have a bunch.

 

The 10mm is more versatile, so if you're looking for a woods gun as well as something for CCW, it's a really good choice. With all the varying bullet weights & velocities it's easy to find just the right thing for your need.

The 357sig is more of a '1 trick pony', but it's definitely a horse that I want (& have) in my stable. It's well suited to CCW or LEO use, especially in a Glock. Recoil is always more of a personal thing, but IMO it feels like a hot 9mm: I feel it more in the palm of my shooting hand, vs. say a 40sw, that seems to have more of a muzzle flip. The 357sig's accuracy is awesome. It's definitely a flat shooter, so if you do any long distance shooting, this caliber is for you.

 

What, pray tell, is an 'LGS'?

Local Gun Shop

What's a 'SHTF' gun?

S*** Hits The Fan

 

The 9mm and 357SIG both produce roughly identical permanent wound cavities. The 357SIG causes a more violent TC.

The 10mm produces a larger wound cavity than both, and is capable of even larger TC's with faster loads.

In shooting water-jugs with 9mm 124+P GDHP from a P226, and the 125gr TX DPS 357SIG load from a P226, penetration in water jugs is identical.

Penetration in phone-books soaked for a few hours in water favored the 357SIG by a couple inches or so. The .45 was bested by 1-1.5" by the 9mm, which was bested by about 1" by the 357SIG LP loading, which was bested by about 1-1.5" by the TX DPS loading. All loads were with GDHP. THe .45 was fired from a 5" barreled 1911, the others by a P226 SIG (2 different SIGs).

Penetration in pine boards heavily favored the 357SIG round vs. the .45 and 9mm.

Penetration in water-jugs favored the .45 230gr GDHP, however, the margin is unsure as 1 of the jugs was hit in the upper/thinner portion where the handle cut-out is (Milk Jugs), so I don't want to make that claim hard and fast as I didn't back it up with another test.

Penetration on steel (car doors) in my testing greatly favors the SIG round.

My P226 with a trigger-job reliably shoots 1-1.5" 5-shot groups at 25 yards using the TX DPS 357SIG loading fired by hand from a sand-bag.

LGS's are full of BSers.

*I have seen gel testing of the 357SIG indicate it will penetrate nearly 2x 24" in gel using FMJ. Further, I don't know about a bear's skull or shoulder. Angle, build of the bear, a lot of factors go into that. It's like saying "This guy here, if he punches someone, he is going to knock them out"...well...maybe.

*Phone book testing, penetration described above in text.

From L-->R
TX DPS load, LP load, 9mm 124+P, .45 230gr.

 

*I have seen gel testing of the 357SIG indicate it will penetrate nearly 2x 24" in gel using FMJ. Further, I don't know about a bear's skull or shoulder. Angle, build of the bear, a lot of factors go into that. It's like saying "This guy here, if he punches someone, he is going to knock them out"...well...maybe.

Could you point in the direction of the test you're referring to? I understand that most claims are purely hypothetical and that it's mostly a relative statement where I have to take the average (person, bear, cougar, etc) and figure that must be what they're talking about - OR - conduct my own personal tests to find out what's true.

On a side note... I realize most gun shop guys would be considered less than trustworthy, but I know this guy is legit.

 

Could you point in the direction of the test you're referring to? I understand that most claims are purely hypothetical and that it's mostly a relative statement where I have to take the average (person, bear, cougar, etc) and figure that must be what they're talking about - OR - conduct my own personal tests to find out what's true.

On a side note... I realize most gun shop guys would be considered less than trustworthy, but I know this guy is legit.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/HG_0208_01/index1.html

54" of gel and then some.

 

I'm thinking I really like the penetration advantage that the .357 Sig has over what I've heard about the 10mm. I think it'd make a really nice woods gun and the with the lighter recoil I would probably like it more too. I will be loading my own stuff so I'm not worried about that part of things at all. 54+'' of penetration is INCREDIBLE and a MAJOR selling point for me!

 

The 357 sig, will not out penetrate the 10mm, unless you load the 10mm with light for caliber loads.


Put some WNFGC rounds in 200-230 grain and the gap between a personal defense weapon and a woods gun become evident quickly.

 

10mm is as close as you can get to .41 magmun performane out of an autoloader.

 

I'm thinking I really like the penetration advantage that the .357 Sig has over what I've heard about the 10mm. I think it'd make a really nice woods gun and the with the lighter recoil I would probably like it more too. I will be loading my own stuff so I'm not worried about that part of things at all. 54+'' of penetration is INCREDIBLE and a MAJOR selling point for me!

Boy, you're really trying to talk yourself into a 357SIG. Not saying there's anything wrong with them, if you want one, buy one.

At the end of the day, especially when handloading is an option, the 10mm spanks the 357SIG all day long!!! Not to mention the 10mm is by FAR more versatile with an array of different bullet weights to choose from (135, 140, 150, 155, 165, 180, 200, 230...).

And what, you're gonna carry FMJ with all that worthless hype talk of +54" penetration depth...??? 200gr XTPs in the 10mm are good for ~20" penetration depth in gel, not to mention impressive expansion. Show me a 357SIG JHP load capable of anywhere near that with the 357SIG! :animlol:

The 357SIG has nothing over the 10mm besides less recoil and a slimmer grip on the gun, and that's practically argueable. You do know SF versions of the Glock 10mms are available, right? Held one of them yet?

So, to sum up, is there anything wrong with choosing the 357SIG? Heck NO!!! Will the 357SIG gain you anything over the 10mm? Heck NO!!! Give your guy at the LGS my reguards, and don't let him kid you, and don't kid yourself. :thumbsup:


Good Shooting,
Craig :thumbsup:

 

I guess what got me to thinking was that right now I carry a .40 caliber (the real version) and what draws me to the .357 Sig is the opportunity for increased accuracy, the same extreme velocity, deep penetration the 10mm I have currently provides me with and all in a much SMALLER/comfortable/more concealable package.

If you're looking for a high velocity, powerful caliber in a smaller Glock, 357sig is the way to go.

 

Boy, you're really trying to talk yourself into a 357SIG. Not saying there's anything wrong with them, if you want one, buy one.

At the end of the day, especially when handloading is an option, the 10mm spanks the 357SIG all day long!!! Not to mention the 10mm is by FAR more versatile with an array of different bullet weights to choose from (135, 140, 150, 155, 165, 180, 200, 230...).

And what, you're gonna carry FMJ with all that worthless hype talk of +54" penetration depth...??? 200gr XTPs in the 10mm are good for ~20" penetration depth in gel, not to mention impressive expansion. Show me a 357SIG JHP load capable of anywhere near that with the 357SIG! :animlol:

The 357SIG has nothing over the 10mm besides less recoil and a slimmer grip on the gun, and that's practically argueable. You do know SF versions of the Glock 10mms are available, right? Held one of them yet?

So, to sum up, is there anything wrong with choosing the 357SIG? Heck NO!!! Will the 357SIG gain you anything over the 10mm? Heck NO!!! Give your guy at the LGS my reguards, and don't let him kid you, and don't kid yourself. :thumbsup:


Good Shooting,
Craig :thumbsup:

357 does have a slimmer profile. If cc it could be a benefit to some. Other than that I agree with eveything you posted. The 10mm is such a versatile handgun. By far my favorite semi auto.

 

I understand the 10mm is pretty much the beez knees, and that's why it's my EDC currently. With that said though I'd like to say that after holding the Glock 32 yesterday and comparing it with my G29 (which has the Pearce grip extension) I realized that it's really NOT that small and concealing the G32 would be much easier... 1/10'' doesn't seem like much until you have the each in your hands!
I like the idea of a Do It All Gun because my philosophy is to shoot the fewest number of calibers/different platforms possible to become proficient with what I've got verses alright with everything. That's why I've been so stoked on the 10mm, but the .357 Sig has caught my eye and I really want to know how it stacks up against the 10mm!
Thanks for all your help so far =) Keep it coming!