The accuracy is going to depend on more than just bullet weight. It will differ depending on the powder used, the design of the bullet and different guns respond differently to different loads. Buy a small supply and do some experimenting making notes of what works best for you.

Then try a different combination until you find the one that hit's the sweet spot for you and your rifle. Then stock up on that combination.


That's my recommendation at any rate.

 

The accuracy is going to depend on more than just bullet weight. It will differ depending on the powder used, the design of the bullet and different guns respond differently to different loads. Buy a small supply and do some experimenting making notes of what works best for you.

Then try a different combination until you find the one that hit's the sweet spot for you and your rifle. Then stock up on that combination.


That's my recommendation at any rate.

I suspect that's a good idea. Thanks!

 

Utahirishman nailed it! My 308's love 168 gr and 175 gr Sierra bt's. I have found the Accutips to be almost as consistently accurate.

 

My view of the .308 is that it is a precision round, where you'd have to do split experiment to find how much powder on a particular bullet weight, to give you the required precision on a particular gun&barrel. Mine would do 1" group (5shots) at 200meter.

To foster consistency between 308 rounds, a number of reloading parameters have to be tightly controlled:
AOL
powder charge to 0.1grain or less,
sorted bullet weights and design profile,
case length trim at neck,
case annealed at neck,
cleaned primer hole.

As a result, each 308 cartridge should receive special attention. I have jokingly refer to each reloaded 308 as a "jewel". This notion/concept may not be possible to implement on a progressive (high speed) reloader. Simple powder metering on Progressive reloaders have too much uncertainty.

If you just want to shoot, it would be fine to reload on a progressive,
But if you want to shoot well, you'll need to reload each 308 cartridge one by one with precision.

FWIW

 

Longer bullets are sexier. Nice boat tail. Polymer tip. Just saying.

 

147s are almost always M80 ball, which is produced for machine guns and is not accurate in most guns. I had a Handi Rifle that would do about 1.5moa with them, but my LR308 won't put them inside 4MOA.

150s are generally either FMJs manufactured by modern makers like Hornady, OR they are SP hunting bullets. Most of them will shoot inside 2.5MOA in most guns, but the higher end hunting bullets will be significantly more accurate.

155s are typically higher-end match bullets (AMax, the various HPBTs like Sierra Match Kings, etc).

168s are almost all accuracy-centered bullets, again like Hornady Amax, SMKs, etc.

180s are typically heavy SP hunting bullets, which are good for big game inside of maybe 400 yards or so from a .308.

I would also agree that I think of .308 as less of a "blasting" round. Granted, I have pretty aggressively switched up my perspective on reloading to much more of a precision process looking for specific results. Still, a typical range loadout for my .308 AR might be 20-50 rounds of blasting ammo, but 10 sets of 10 new defensive or accuracy loads for testing.

Long story short, I would not necessarily buy a .308 with the intent of cranking out only blasting ammo.

 

My experience is the same as Colorado's, longer bullets with polymer tips are the ticket.

The 150-168 grain bullets have too much drag. The 175 A-max and the new SMK with a polymer tip will fly all the way to a grand, staying supersonic the whole way.

 

You said that you read that 168 grain bullets are more accurate. Not true. 168 grain match bullets are generally more accurate than non match bullets The 168 Sierra Match King works well in many rifles and has been around a very long time. It is a good place to start and has become a standard for ballistic scopes.

At my high altitude I can shoot all the way to 1000 yards with 168 boat tail bullets. The same bullet would only be super sonic to 800 yards at sea level. You would need to go with the heavier 173 grain SMK or similar bullet in the 308.

A few Summers ago I and a friend work up a load for his Browning BAR in 308 Win. and 18" barrel. I told him what every work in his rifle would be a very good overall in my rifles. The load we came up with is 47 grains of Winchester 748 with Nolser 150 Ballistic Tip Boat Tail. That load shoot MOA or better in several rifles I have.

Now if you want to duplicate Federal 168 Match and hit the same point of impact you have to use 44 grains of IMR 4064. This powder will not work in a powder dispenser of a progressive press. I could get match accuracy with ball powders but did not hit the same place as Federal 168 Match. My goal was to be able to use either handloads or factory in a very accurate Rock River rifle.

Now if you are just wanting a high volume reloads for shooting then you could buy 147 150 FMJ bullets at a better price.

 

168gr SMK. .3x" at 100 yds. 5 rds. Can't remember the exact measurement. Stock Rem 700.

 

Turns out that most people have the same result as my own. Rem 700 Heavy BBL using Sierra 168 MKHP. Mine only go about 2300 out of the muzzle but gives me 1 ragged hole at 100 and can ring a disc blade at 500 nearly all the time. It would probably do better, but I"m the weak link, I'm quite sure. Love that rifle.

As it happens, I think it's actually a good hunting bullet. While I don't hunt anymore, a farmer that has allowed me to shoot for years had a 13 year old steer that ruptured herself giving birth and couldn't get up. He didn't have the heart and asked me to shoot it. I didn't want to but didn't feel like I could turn him down. I shot from 50 yards in the head and it didn't make a sound, just laid it's head down. I was quite surprised and happy the farmer didn't have to listen to what I expected.

 

Sad story....

Can't help but love the Rem 700.

 

All interesting information. What I have noticed is a lot of the first mentioned bullet weights available and having never reloaded for a rifle was just curious. I'm using my two RRA LR's and a DPMS as a platform and I'm considering buying a Ruger precision Rifle. I'm close to retirement and have a little more time to play. I'm just thinking of working up something that would be reasonably accurate (whatever that means!) at 300 to 400 yards max, if that's possible with the rifles mentioned. As I said earlier I've only loaded pistol ammo before so this will be a new experience. I don't hunt but like to spend some time killing paper.

 

If are only going to 400 yards you might want to try my 150 Nolser with 47 grain of 748. When we were trying this load we went past 47 grains but did not really gain any more velocity so went back to 47 grains. This load in my RR LAR carbine shoots under MOA. It also shoots MOA out of my RR LAR rifle. I got a lucky here because the rifle is set up for the 168 match load and is calibrated from 100 to 1000 yards. When the rifle is set at 100 yards for the 168 load it shoots the 150 hunting load 2 1/2" high. I have hunted and shot a lot of big game with 30 caliber rifle with that setting to have the ballistic drop burned into my DNA.

I know you want to use your Dillon. So would I but I handload these using small base dies and trimmed to length. If you are loading for semi auto you will need to use a medium burning powder such as 748. You may get by with standard dies but once to start loading for several you may need to get small base dies. I found the need for a case gage when loading for several different semi auto guns whether pistols or rifles. Doesn't mean you can't use a progressive press you just need to play attention to quality control.

 

Well for my Rem 700 it loves 168 grain. And my Socom chews through 147 grain. Those are about the only two weights I shoot

 

Bello, do the 147s shoot accurately? Or you just mean they function well? And are you talking about the Springfield M1A SOCOM?

 

It seems that a person could still use a progressive loader along with something like the RCBS Chargemaster 1500 to drop the powder, especially the powders that are more difficult to get precise loads. It would be just a little slower not using the Dillon powder drop, but still get a little more speed with the Dillon machines.

Steve

 

It seems that a person could still use a progressive loader along with something like the RCBS Chargemaster 1500 to drop the powder, especially the powders that are more difficult to get precise loads. It would be just a little slower not using the Dillon powder drop, but still get a little more speed with the Dillon machines.

Steve

Sure can! Case preparation is more critical if you want more accuracy in more different guns. If you are loading brass fired in one rifle it is easy to load accurate ammo for that same gun using a progressive press. You can find easy to meter ball powder that will work in the 308 Win. The 308 is an easy round to find go load data. If you use good quality bullets, powder and primers, all easy to come by, you will get good accurate ammo.

There really no secret to load accurate ammo. Be consistence and eliminate as many variables as you can. There are many medium burning rate powders that are known to work well in the 308. 30 caliber bullets has been America's bore size that bullets manufactures have got that covered too.

 

It seems that a person could still use a progressive loader along with something like the RCBS Chargemaster 1500 to drop the powder, especially the powders that are more difficult to get precise loads. It would be just a little slower not using the Dillon powder drop, but still get a little more speed with the Dillon machines.

Steve

They could and I have never done it. But it would not be much faster then my arbour press as your still waiting on the dispenser. But it would be a little faster I guess.

 

If you’re looking to load plinking loads on your XL650 for a mag fed semi-auto RRA and/or DPMS. 1 MOA or better is more than sufficient IMO, you are restricted by mag length anyways. This can easily can be accomplished with 150-155 and personally all I would use if those were the range requirements. The key is finding the right powder / bullet combo. I use 155 Ballistic tips or a surplus of 155 Sierra Palma blems that a buddy gets for me. I run these with mixed military brass that I process myself (something I am shocked no one has mentioned) backed with RL15 or BLC-2 all loaded progressively on my XL650. Guns used are a SA Socom 16 and an 18 inch Aero .308 mid-length.

 

They could and I have never done it. But it would not be much faster then my arbour press as your still waiting on the dispenser. But it would be a little faster I guess.

Well, with the 1500 there is an "Auto" function on the drops, so I'd figure by the time you have rotated the carousel, the dispensed powder should be ready to pour into the next case. Of course this isn't going to be as fast as the Dillon powder dispenser, but it would seem to be better than one individual action for each step on each and every round.

Steve

 

Well, with the 1500 there is an "Auto" function on the drops, so I'd figure by the time you have rotated the carousel, the dispensed powder should be ready to pour into the next case. Of course this isn't going to be as fast as the Dillon powder dispenser, but it would seem to be better than one individual action for each step on each and every round.

Steve

Yep it is faster.

 

Maybe this is just me but I wouldn't try to learn reloading using a progressive press and a high pressure round. There are too many variables a noob can miss that could damage a gun or your face.

I am gearing up to start reloading in the next year or so. I am going to start with a single stage press, probably try to get consistent with .45acp before I start .45 super loads and 6.5 Creedmoor.

If I ever get to the point of loading high volume, its going to be more about finding inexpensive components than accuracy. For .308 that probably means pulled FMJ ball and Russian primers. If I can find decent pull down powder that works I would buy that in bulk (this is a risk).

Before I try high volume rifle rounds I would definitely reload high volume pistol ammo with hard cast or plated bullets. If I could do that well I might try rifle but I would have to shoot a lot more to justify it.

 

I load rifle and pistol on a RL1050, XL650 and a single stage. I'll tell you right now based on what you state ultimately want to do... forget about the single stage until your ready to load some real precision rifle. Get a 550 instead.Contrary to popular belief statistically loading on a single stage you are actually more likely to make a mistake based on the number of times you have to handle a case.

 

How do you get ready to "load some real precision rifle" when you are using a progressive press? That doesn't make sense.

I would love to see your statistical data.

You might know the phrase "lies, damn lies and statistics", I'll take my chances with a single stage and pay attention when I'm loading.

 

I apologize if I hurt your feelings regarding my statements of loading on a SS, that was not the intention. I was simply trying save you the hassle of starting with a SS where it’s obvious to me (and I’m sure by many others here) by your previous statements of wanting to load “high volume pistol ammo with hard cast or plated bullets” and then eventually “If I ever get to the point of loading high volume, its going to be more about finding inexpensive components than accuracy.”

These are general terms that I'm dubbing down but most inexperienced reloaders associate precision reloading with the type of firearm used. There’s a difference in loading for a bolt gun as opposed to volume loading for a semi-auto, generally you are loading single shot with bolt gun. The difference in results are bug holes or acceptable groups still inside MOA for gun games, training and practice. The use of consistent components and extent in case preparation the primary differences in results. If you have a good progressive you can actually for the most part get away with loading “precision” rifle (just have to be realistic of the expectations) and be able to load in volume.

As for your demand for statistical data, it’s just common math. The more often you have place your hand on the case to remove it off a tray or shell holder the more chance a mistake will be made. I’ve been a gun game RO/SO and NRA RSO for over 20 years, IDPA, USPSA, 3-Gun. I’ve seen more than my share of blown up guns and called many “squibs”. I always asked “what press did you load those on?” 99 percent of the time the answer is SS or manually indexing progressive. I’m not saying that loading rifle in particular on a progressive IS more precise than loading on a SS but it can be almost as precise depending on the components used. If your intention is to load volume pistol or rifle it’s just in my opinion better just to start with a reasonably priced progressive provided it is within your budget means.

Hey but what do I know? This year I only budgeted to load 6K of .223, 10K of 9mm and a maybe 2K of long range rifle for PRS. That's not even half of what me and some of the guys I normally attend matches and squad would load/shoot in years past. I could be wrong?

You get back to us in a year or so when you start reloading and share your experiences.

 

To which bits, specifically, are you referring?


Lots of people reload .30 cal bullets. Google will actually do most of the leg work of compiling those data and anecdotes.

I'm sorry, but this post screams "for no obvious reason, ignore everyone else and listen only to my opinions!"

I stand by what I post. I have three M1A, standard, match and 16". Three FAL rifles. Two metric and one inch pattern. Four AR 10 type from 16" carbine to 24" heavy barrel. Three sporting rifles in 308. A Winchester 100 carbine, a left hand Sako rifle and a Savage 99 leveraction. I joined the NRA in May 1968 but been a reloader longer. I bought 7.62 NATO for as low as 7 1/2 cents a round delivered back in the 1990s when NATO countries were surplusing it out for 5.56. For the last several years I have been shooting my battle rifles cheaper than most people can shoot their 22s.

When I reload 308 it has to be accurate and work in everything. When I shoot my reloads I am not saving money or time. I want performance.

How do you think Mr. Google gets it information? Does Mr. Google shoot and reload? Glock Talk is a place where real people can ask honest question to real people that will be kind enough to be respectful and tell them their real life experience.

I would never tell Tombstone to "GTS". As far as I know he did and still wants more knowledge.

 

I stand by what I post. I have three M1A, standard, match and 16". Three FAL rifles. Two metric and one inch pattern. Four AR 10 type from 16" carbine to 24" heavy barrel. Three sporting rifles in 308. A Winchester 100 carbine, a left hand Sako rifle and a Savage 99 leveraction. I joined the NRA in May 1968 but been a reloader longer. I bought 7.62 NATO for as low as 7 1/2 cents a round delivered back in the 1990s when NATO countries were surplusing it out for 5.56. For the last several years I have been shooting my battle rifles cheaper than most people can shoot their 22s.

When I reload 308 it has to be accurate and work in everything. When I shoot my reloads I am not saving money or time. I want performance.

How do you think Mr. Google gets it information? Does Mr. Google shoot and reload? Glock Talk is a place where real people can ask honest question to real people that will be kind enough to be respectful and tell them their real life experience.

I would never tell Tombstone to "GTS". As far as I know he did and still wants more knowledge.

Wyoming, I think you might have misinterpreted my post. I wasn't quoting you, and hadn't disagreed with anything you'd said prior to this...

 

My feelings were not hurt, I didn't do any demanding either.

I don't intend to do high volume reloading. My schedule makes range trips infrequent and I think the last time I shot more than 100 rounds of center fire in a sitting was almost 4 years ago. High volume isn't necessary unless I suddenly find a lot more time for shooting.

My intention is to make accurate ammo in 6.5 Creedmoor and some ammo in the expensive and oddball chamberings I have.

On your statistics, I am sure the defect rate for a properly adjusted and run progressive press is quite low but there are two learning curves here, reloading in general and the progressive press. Trying to figure out both at the same time is where I would expect error to creep in.

Getting back to statistics, I wonder how many progressive loaded rounds have to get pulled down after the reloader discovers that he just made 1,000 identical rounds with the wrong powder charge. You are only going to hear about the first one, not the other 999.

Maybe its a bad habit on my part but I'll call out things that don't make sense. In my defense, you were trying to speak from a position of authority due to "statistics", then you back it up with "common math". I don't want to be a dick but that is pretty weak.

 

Boxer I believe you. Arguing with a newbie member that is asking you for your "statistical" data is wasting your time. I have several print outs from my chronograph with real data shooting from my guns. I too have loaded many thousands of rounds of ammo this winter.

This Summer I plan to work on 7-08 for neighbor kid. I already went and found published data to begin my work. I will follow the statistical data until I find what I want.

I agree and been pulled down that road here before... that's the beauty of the internet. You can be an expert reloader without having even loaded a round.

 

Well, with the 1500 there is an "Auto" function on the drops, so I'd figure by the time you have rotated the carousel, the dispensed powder should be ready to pour into the next case. Of course this isn't going to be as fast as the Dillon powder dispenser, but it would seem to be better than one individual action for each step on each and every round.

Steve

I use the auto function. Still takes a good amount of time to dispense powder. More then enough time to seat a bullet and wait for the dispenser.

 

How do you get ready to "load some real precision rifle" when you are using a progressive press? That doesn't make sense.

I would love to see your statistical data.

You might know the phrase "lies, damn lies and statistics", I'll take my chances with a single stage and pay attention when I'm loading.

Creedmoor. Your not a loader and it shows. Just a guy who read some stuff. Your fear of rifle on a progressive is totally unfounded. It's things like loading .45 with a low volume powder on a progressive that is riskier. Not rifle. You could double or triple charge 45 easily. You would never be able to double charger a rifle round with most powders. Basically your just repeating unfounded fears from non loaders or people who are just not that seasoned.

I have also personally seen more problems with loads on a single stage then a progressive. I would argue a 650 is safer than a single stage any day of the week.


Welcome

 

I have no fear of a progressive press, I am just familiar with some statistical process controls in manufacturing.

Rather than automating my reloading with a progressive press and trying to gather data to implement effective process controls, I'm going to go single stage and inspect many times between fired brass and reloaded cartridge.

Inspection is not something you do to weed out defective parts, you do it to confirm that your process is working the way you intend.

What I do for a living is kind of unusuaL, I have to design and verify things made by the million and the defect rate has to be zero because we indemnify our customers against failures caused by our parts.

The stakes are high, kind of like reloading except easier to screw up.

You'll probably discount my experience because its not reloading the same way I discount your statistics because its not numbers.

l am still skeptical that a new reloader can get a feel for precision reloading when one stroke up and one stroke down on the handle de-primes and re-sizes, flares the case mouth, seats a primer, drops a metered load of powder, seats a bullet, crimps the case neck and moves the shell holder.

I expect to quickly develop a feel for hand priming and bullet seating by using a hand priming tool and a single stage press.

 

There is a difference between reloading as you describe and choose to call precision reloading and loading high quality ammo that is very accurate. Rifle usually requires handling the brass more then pistol. So even if it's loaded on a progressive you are still inspecting it before loading. I load my precision rifle on a arbour press. Doesn't mean my ammo is better then then the guy down the street using a 550. I have seen his groups at long range. Pretty impressive.