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10mm fmj for woods

5.2K views 60 replies 25 participants last post by  RedTeam98  
#1 ·

I came across this when searching for woods 10mm loads, and it seems if you can find a warmer loaded 10 in FMJTC, it gets fairly close to underwoods hardcast stuff. Would there be any other reason to go with something like underwood HC instead of some sort of quality fmj loading? I've heard good things about sig's 10mm fmj "elite performance" where those loads aren't your typical watered down 10mm factory stuff.
 
#4 ·
The Sig is good, as is Magtech. Ammo Inc isn't up with those two, but still above average out of my sample so far. Underwood makes a FMJ "range" load. I have some, but haven't chronoed it yet.

You'd want a flat point, not a round nose. I'm guessing all the 10mm FMJ's I've got are flat point, but don't know that.

I'd imagine the hard cast would hold together and penetrate better... otherwise what's the point.


 
#6 ·
Thanks for the link! That seems to help quite a bit on choosing how warm or watered down I want my factory ammo to be.

Yea I've noticed truncated cone bullets tend to penetrate through medium better. I think everything 10mm and 40 caliber I've come across is all truncated cone if it's fmj. I'm sure there's exceptions I just don't know about though.
 
#5 ·
You'd have to test any FMJ load because an FMJ is not the same as a jacketed solid. ie, a solid, like a hard cast, is tough enough to not expand at all and penetrate deeply. Some FMJ bullets might behave like a solid and not deform but some FMJ's might get squashed with a resulting loss of penetration and not behave as you would expect.
 
#7 ·
Yea the FMJ he tested did get squished/deformed a bit, but the penetration seems to be there. Of course he does his "meat targets" and not ballistics gel, so who knows how to quantify how much the bullet deflected, but seems to get through larger bone just fine, and then some, while "expanding" out a little bit as well.
 
#11 ·
Depends on your woods. Most lower 48, people & dogs are the issue. If bears are in the mix, bigger is always better with solids.
 
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#22 ·
A few years ago I made my 1st steel gong targets and got a surprise. When any "normal" jacketed bullet hit the gong, whether JHP or FMJ, they'd flatten out to about the shape and thickness of a quarter. Seems reasonable to me that they'd do the same if they hit bone.

The Underwood Hard Cast don't flatten and are my choice in all my carry guns when in the local mountains - we have many Black Bears and some Cougars in SW New Mexico.

Generally, my choice of carry is the 9mm Taurus PT111G2 - it's just enuf smaller than my Glock 29 10mm to be more comfortable over a long day's hiking and the Underwood HC ballistics are very good.

Ballistic gel doesn't give real-world penetration specs when shooting at large, heavy animals. If I ever go hiking in Idaho again, I'll carry the 10mm for sure....with Hard Cast.
 
#23 ·
A few years ago I made my 1st steel gong targets and got a surprise. When any "normal" jacketed bullet hit the gong, whether JHP or FMJ, they'd flatten out to about the shape and thickness of a quarter. Seems reasonable to me that they'd do the same if they hit bone.

The Underwood Hard Cast don't flatten and are my choice in all my carry guns when in the local mountains - we have many Black Bears and some Cougars in SW New Mexico.

Generally, my choice of carry is the 9mm Taurus PT111G2 - it's just enuf smaller than my Glock 29 10mm to be more comfortable over a long day's hiking and the Underwood HC ballistics are very good.

Ballistic gel doesn't give real-world penetration specs when shooting at large, heavy animals. If I ever go hiking in Idaho again, I'll carry the 10mm for sure....with Hard Cast.

I hear you, from that Paul Harrell video, it looks like the bullet deforms a bit when hitting bone(s) that are significant in size, however the penetration still seems to be there.

I've EDC'd a glock 19 for well over a decade at this point, so I think a g20 sized gun won't be too bad for me, even on long hikes, however I'll wing it and see before I commit to a longer hike, and if it's an issue I may also get a G29.
 
#25 ·
Magtech 10a and 10b is the hottest stuff you’re going to get besides the sig 10mm rounds in box ammo before you buy underwood ammo. Those are the 2 best box ammos in 10mm you’re going to get. Federal is a joke. You might as well shoot 40s&w if you’re gona buy that. But the underwood is pretty stout for a 1$ a round for the regular hollow point 180-200 grains. 1-1.25$ a round for the most part. I practice with the magtech thou. My G20 won’t cycle anything less. But I built it to take the underwood loads and my hot rounds.
 
#35 ·
A year and a half ago when this thread started, I had chronoed the Magtech FMJ, but not the JHP. I had assumed the JHP would be the same, but it's not. I was disappointed when I did get the JHP and chrono it.

Magtech 180 gr JHP "1230, 605"
$25/50, $.50
LPP
1127 fps,
1146 fps,
1132 fps,
1144 fps,
1139 fps,
Avg 1138 fps, 518 ftlbs
Avg 92 fps less than advertised

Magtech 180 gr FMJ "1230"
$37/50, $.74
LPP
16 rounds
Min 1182 fps, 558 ftlbs
Max 1237 fps, 612 ftlbs
Avg 1209 fps, 584
Avg 21 fps less than advertised
 
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#28 ·
Is the test wrong for an attacking animal?
Don't get me wrong, I think the meat test works well for hunting animals. leather, ribbs, lungs, ribbs, something that will catch the bullet.
But if we are talking charging bear, that isn't the shot we get. It will be some part of the head and then it has to go through the body. So, even a medium eastern blackbear is a much deeper target.

I would like to see
10MM AUTO 150GR. XTREME HUNTER PLATINUM EDITION SOLID MONOLITHIC HUNTING & SELF DEFENSE
Then a FMJ 180gr, Underwood does FMJ, so...
Then cast 220gr.

tested.

Needs 3 tests.
1. Heavy bones. I would take a cow skull, maybe scapula, big bones, then bags of grapefruit. How far down the bear can it make it?
2. Straight Gel. Mountain Lion or person, deer
3. Standard sideways meat test, Mountain Lion or person, deer with a perfect hunters shot. If you are worried about big bear test 1 is the important one.
 
#29 ·
Is the test wrong for an attacking animal?
Don't get me wrong, I think the meat test works well for hunting animals. leather, ribbs, lungs, ribbs, something that will catch the bullet.
But if we are talking charging bear, that isn't the shot we get. It will be some part of the head and then it has to go through the body. So, even a medium eastern blackbear is a much deeper target.

I would like to see
10MM AUTO 150GR. XTREME HUNTER PLATINUM EDITION SOLID MONOLITHIC HUNTING & SELF DEFENSE
Then a FMJ 180gr, Underwood does FMJ, so...
Then cast 220gr.

tested.

I'd imagine what you hit past the bear's head, or don't, wouldn't matter, since incapacitation that's reliable and instant would be connecting to the CNS. So as long as it could make it past the skull and into the brain, that'd be the primary importance.

Needs 3 tests.
1. Heavy bones. I would take a cow skull, maybe scapula, big bones, then bags of grapefruit. How far down the bear can it make it?
2. Straight Gel. Mountain Lion or person, deer
3. Standard sideways meat test, Mountain Lion or person, deer with a perfect hunters shot. If you are worried about big bear test 1 is the important one.
Honestly I like that idea. If you or anyone else did it, I'd be watching or reading those studies you guys posted.
 
#34 ·
Keep in mind that a lot of people giving advice on whacking irritated grizyogis and other quadrupeds have never been far enough from downtown to see the backside of the city limits sign.
A few years ago I made my 1st steel gong targets and got a surprise. When any "normal" jacketed bullet hit the gong, whether JHP or FMJ, they'd flatten out to about the shape and thickness of a quarter. Seems reasonable to me that they'd do the same if they hit bone.

The Underwood Hard Cast don't flatten and are my choice in all my carry guns when in the local mountains - we have many Black Bears and some Cougars in SW New Mexico.

Generally, my choice of carry is the 9mm Taurus PT111G2 - it's just enuf smaller than my Glock 29 10mm to be more comfortable over a long day's hiking and the Underwood HC ballistics are very good.

Ballistic gel doesn't give real-world penetration specs when shooting at large, heavy animals. If I ever go hiking in Idaho again, I'll carry the 10mm for sure....with Hard Cast.
The bullets are not not Thick Plated like Berry at .008” thick. I really like the 220gr FP TP Berry and 8.6 of LS in Alaska.
 
#50 ·
A local shop was selling Doubletap hardcast 230's....advertised at 1120 fps out of a 5" barrel. I have not seen 10mm with 230's put out by anyone else and am curious as to what they're stuffing in that case. I picked up a box just to see how they run through my various 10mm's.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Garmin sweet
love to have one still using my old Caldwell Cronograph seems to work ok but would love a Garmin . Underwood used 800x exclusively in 200 and 220 until it was discontinued. Today I think they use 8.4 of Power Pistol in 200 which reduced the velocity some. I believe the 220gr Load is 8.4 of Long Shot and still a decent load …..I use 8.6 of LS in Handload with 220 and 200.