.

 

I liked his line about defense against cougars. lol

 

The Sig is good, as is Magtech. Ammo Inc isn't up with those two, but still above average out of my sample so far. Underwood makes a FMJ "range" load. I have some, but haven't chronoed it yet.

You'd want a flat point, not a round nose. I'm guessing all the 10mm FMJ's I've got are flat point, but don't know that.

I'd imagine the hard cast would hold together and penetrate better... otherwise what's the point.

Which factory 10mm loads are full power? With chrono...

Edit Chrono results out of a Springfield XDM Elite 4.5. Blazer Aluminum 200 gr FMJ "1050" $18/50, $.36 Winchester WWB 180 gr FMJ "1080" I paid $45/50, $.90 LPP 1065 fps, 453 ftlbs 1070 fps, 458 ftlbs 1051 fps, 441 ftlbs 1039 fps, 431 ftlbs 1039 fps, 431 ftlbs Avg 443 ftlbs Hornady Critical...

www.glocktalk.com

 

Thanks for the link! That seems to help quite a bit on choosing how warm or watered down I want my factory ammo to be.

Yea I've noticed truncated cone bullets tend to penetrate through medium better. I think everything 10mm and 40 caliber I've come across is all truncated cone if it's fmj. I'm sure there's exceptions I just don't know about though.

 

You'd have to test any FMJ load because an FMJ is not the same as a jacketed solid. ie, a solid, like a hard cast, is tough enough to not expand at all and penetrate deeply. Some FMJ bullets might behave like a solid and not deform but some FMJ's might get squashed with a resulting loss of penetration and not behave as you would expect.

 

Yea the FMJ he tested did get squished/deformed a bit, but the penetration seems to be there. Of course he does his "meat targets" and not ballistics gel, so who knows how to quantify how much the bullet deflected, but seems to get through larger bone just fine, and then some, while "expanding" out a little bit as well.

 

Ill second Magtech. Its hot ammo, good quality, but range ammo pricing, my go to for 10 mm now.

 

I like UW 200gr XTP .. probably best of both worlds

 

My edc round.

 

You don't need a 10 mm for woods carry here are two options and offer more ammo choices as well. Both the .40 and 357 Sig FMJ rounds in this test penetrated 30 inches of gel and still had power left to knock down the nailed backstop. Note neither of these calibers were the more powerful Underwood variety.

 

Depends on your woods. Most lower 48, people & dogs are the issue. If bears are in the mix, bigger is always better with solids.

 

A few years ago I made my 1st steel gong targets and got a surprise. When any "normal" jacketed bullet hit the gong, whether JHP or FMJ, they'd flatten out to about the shape and thickness of a quarter. Seems reasonable to me that they'd do the same if they hit bone.

The Underwood Hard Cast don't flatten and are my choice in all my carry guns when in the local mountains - we have many Black Bears and some Cougars in SW New Mexico.

Generally, my choice of carry is the 9mm Taurus PT111G2 - it's just enuf smaller than my Glock 29 10mm to be more comfortable over a long day's hiking and the Underwood HC ballistics are very good.

Ballistic gel doesn't give real-world penetration specs when shooting at large, heavy animals. If I ever go hiking in Idaho again, I'll carry the 10mm for sure....with Hard Cast.

 

A few years ago I made my 1st steel gong targets and got a surprise. When any "normal" jacketed bullet hit the gong, whether JHP or FMJ, they'd flatten out to about the shape and thickness of a quarter. Seems reasonable to me that they'd do the same if they hit bone.

The Underwood Hard Cast don't flatten and are my choice in all my carry guns when in the local mountains - we have many Black Bears and some Cougars in SW New Mexico.

Generally, my choice of carry is the 9mm Taurus PT111G2 - it's just enuf smaller than my Glock 29 10mm to be more comfortable over a long day's hiking and the Underwood HC ballistics are very good.

Ballistic gel doesn't give real-world penetration specs when shooting at large, heavy animals. If I ever go hiking in Idaho again, I'll carry the 10mm for sure....with Hard Cast.

I hear you, from that Paul Harrell video, it looks like the bullet deforms a bit when hitting bone(s) that are significant in size, however the penetration still seems to be there.

I've EDC'd a glock 19 for well over a decade at this point, so I think a g20 sized gun won't be too bad for me, even on long hikes, however I'll wing it and see before I commit to a longer hike, and if it's an issue I may also get a G29.

 

Magtech 10a and 10b is the hottest stuff you’re going to get besides the sig 10mm rounds in box ammo before you buy underwood ammo. Those are the 2 best box ammos in 10mm you’re going to get. Federal is a joke. You might as well shoot 40s&w if you’re gona buy that. But the underwood is pretty stout for a 1$ a round for the regular hollow point 180-200 grains. 1-1.25$ a round for the most part. I practice with the magtech thou. My G20 won’t cycle anything less. But I built it to take the underwood loads and my hot rounds.

 

A year and a half ago when this thread started, I had chronoed the Magtech FMJ, but not the JHP. I had assumed the JHP would be the same, but it's not. I was disappointed when I did get the JHP and chrono it.

Magtech 180 gr JHP "1230, 605"
$25/50, $.50
LPP
1127 fps,
1146 fps,
1132 fps,
1144 fps,
1139 fps,
Avg 1138 fps, 518 ftlbs
Avg 92 fps less than advertised

Magtech 180 gr FMJ "1230"
$37/50, $.74
LPP
16 rounds
Min 1182 fps, 558 ftlbs
Max 1237 fps, 612 ftlbs
Avg 1209 fps, 584
Avg 21 fps less than advertised

 

Is the test wrong for an attacking animal?
Don't get me wrong, I think the meat test works well for hunting animals. leather, ribbs, lungs, ribbs, something that will catch the bullet.
But if we are talking charging bear, that isn't the shot we get. It will be some part of the head and then it has to go through the body. So, even a medium eastern blackbear is a much deeper target.

I would like to see
10MM AUTO 150GR. XTREME HUNTER PLATINUM EDITION SOLID MONOLITHIC HUNTING & SELF DEFENSE
Then a FMJ 180gr, Underwood does FMJ, so...
Then cast 220gr.
tested.

Needs 3 tests.
1. Heavy bones. I would take a cow skull, maybe scapula, big bones, then bags of grapefruit. How far down the bear can it make it?
2. Straight Gel. Mountain Lion or person, deer
3. Standard sideways meat test, Mountain Lion or person, deer with a perfect hunters shot. If you are worried about big bear test 1 is the important one.

 

Is the test wrong for an attacking animal?
Don't get me wrong, I think the meat test works well for hunting animals. leather, ribbs, lungs, ribbs, something that will catch the bullet.
But if we are talking charging bear, that isn't the shot we get. It will be some part of the head and then it has to go through the body. So, even a medium eastern blackbear is a much deeper target.

I would like to see
10MM AUTO 150GR. XTREME HUNTER PLATINUM EDITION SOLID MONOLITHIC HUNTING & SELF DEFENSE
Then a FMJ 180gr, Underwood does FMJ, so...
Then cast 220gr.
tested.

I'd imagine what you hit past the bear's head, or don't, wouldn't matter, since incapacitation that's reliable and instant would be connecting to the CNS. So as long as it could make it past the skull and into the brain, that'd be the primary importance.

Needs 3 tests.
1. Heavy bones. I would take a cow skull, maybe scapula, big bones, then bags of grapefruit. How far down the bear can it make it?
2. Straight Gel. Mountain Lion or person, deer
3. Standard sideways meat test, Mountain Lion or person, deer with a perfect hunters shot. If you are worried about big bear test 1 is the important one.

Honestly I like that idea. If you or anyone else did it, I'd be watching or reading those studies you guys posted.

 

A thousand years ago (yesterday) I was a lead base to include my feet......a thousand centuries (instanty) passed until I felt a tingle in my feet.....


Sorry, that's all I got....

 

Berry Bullets 220gr FP Thick Plated at 8.6 Long Shot for 1200 fPS in 4.6”. I use this load in G20 with KKM and 22 pound spring for Alaska.

 

Keep in mind that a lot of people giving advice on whacking irritated grizyogis and other quadrupeds have never been far enough from downtown to see the backside of the city limits sign.

A few years ago I made my 1st steel gong targets and got a surprise. When any "normal" jacketed bullet hit the gong, whether JHP or FMJ, they'd flatten out to about the shape and thickness of a quarter. Seems reasonable to me that they'd do the same if they hit bone.

The Underwood Hard Cast don't flatten and are my choice in all my carry guns when in the local mountains - we have many Black Bears and some Cougars in SW New Mexico.

Generally, my choice of carry is the 9mm Taurus PT111G2 - it's just enuf smaller than my Glock 29 10mm to be more comfortable over a long day's hiking and the Underwood HC ballistics are very good.

Ballistic gel doesn't give real-world penetration specs when shooting at large, heavy animals. If I ever go hiking in Idaho again, I'll carry the 10mm for sure....with Hard Cast.

The bullets are not not Thick Plated like Berry at .008” thick. I really like the 220gr FP TP Berry and 8.6 of LS in Alaska.

 

Edit

 

Any reason for Cast instead of FMJ ?

Many / probably most jurisdictions , FMJ is not Hunting legal .

 

Anything goes in Alaska
FMJ Thick Plated from Berry work as well as Hard Cast at 22 BHN
Sidearms are mostly for Bear Protection

 

Suggest Berry 200/220 Thick Plated FN .008” thick plated great for woods carry at 1250/1200fps. 8.6 of Longshot

 

Underwood 200 gr solid for me.

 

10mm - Underwood is not bad Ammo
200gr / 220gr Hardcast contains 8.4 of Longshot

Grizzly Ammo contains 8.5 of LS with 200/220 Hardcast

not bad ammo for trail !

 

A local shop was selling Doubletap hardcast 230's....advertised at 1120 fps out of a 5" barrel. I have not seen 10mm with 230's put out by anyone else and am curious as to what they're stuffing in that case. I picked up a box just to see how they run through my various 10mm's.

 

Don’t get the DT 230 they underloaded them and don’t get advertised velocity

5.8 of Longshot is what DT is loading them with
2 much bullet in 10mm case 1038 fps in 4.6”

Ballistics : 1120fps / 641 ft. lbs. - Glock 20 they claim but my cronograph read 1038 fps.

Suggest stay away from DT !

suggest Grizzly Ammo and Underwood

 

Yes, the 10mm is super popular here in Alaska. 200gr or 220gr hard cast or fmj at 1200fps seems to be saving lives. I don't doubt the Berry’s thick plate will do the job. They are quality bullets.

 

Yup, definitely going to do everything again to make sure I didn't screw up somewhere. I'm running one of the new Garmin chronos and everything is so much easier than with the old one I had.

 

Garmin sweet
love to have one still using my old Caldwell Cronograph seems to work ok but would love a Garmin . Underwood used 800x exclusively in 200 and 220 until it was discontinued. Today I think they use 8.4 of Power Pistol in 200 which reduced the velocity some. I believe the 220gr Load is 8.4 of Long Shot and still a decent load …..I use 8.6 of LS in Handload with 220 and 200.

 

The ideal 10mm load is a 180-200gr. hard cast at 1,300 fps. At his speed, hollowpoints aren't needed, nor desired.

 

Why is this the ideal load? Just askin'