Reloading .45 ACP Hornady 185 gr XTP Bullet

F106 Fan · Nov 7, 2019

So, one more try for the G36. I bought a box of the Hornady bullets and I imagine I want to load them high. Maybe around 1000 fps. Although I don't have +P load data, the pistol should accept +P pressures.

I have 3 candidate powders of those recommended by Sierra (for 1000 fps):

Titegroup - 6.2 gr = much higher than Winchester data
Unique - 7.7 gr
WSF 8.0 gr = much higher than Winchester data

When I look at the Hornady manual, they have different powders and weights and I have Bullseye:

Titegroup - 6.1 gr 950 fps - apparently they don't think much of Sierra 6.2 gr
= much higher than Winchester data
Bullseye - 6.6 gr 950 fps. = Alliant says 6.4 gr

Wichester tames down the loads (wimps):

WSF - 7.5 gr 981 fps
700-X - 5.5 gr 959 fps
Titegroup - 5.5 gr 956 fps

I have no real preference but I really like WSF in .40 S&W and I use a lot of 700-X for .45 ACP

Anybody loading this bullet? Thoughts?

I really want my G36 to like the rounds. It's not my opinion that the recoil of my existing loads is insufficient but I'm willing to experiment. The gun just might hate the bullet shapes.

The Hornady 185 gr Critical Defense works well and it is running 1000 fps from a 3" barrel. That is NOT the load in their manual! That thing is hot!

fredj338 · Nov 8, 2019

I don't own a G36, never liked the way it felt when shooting it. You can easily get close 1000fps with any of those powders. I run WST & get 1000fps in a 5" gun, so maybe they would be 950fps? WSF or Unique will work well for top end loads with a bit of safety margin. Either with 7.5gr & work it up in 1/10gr increments. Your OAL is the critical issue for proper feeding with the XTP. Load them as long as you can & still get them to fit the barrel.

Collo Rosso · Nov 8, 2019

Wish I could help you with the XTP, but have never loaded any for 45acp. Have you tried gold dots? I load 230gr. for 45acp and have never had a feed problem in any pistol, Glock or otherwise. You can also get them in short barrel, with a bigger cavity opening. Supposed to help at lower FPS. They've been cheaper than the XTP's also.

Borg Warner · Nov 8, 2019

F106 Fan said:
So, one more try for the G36. I bought a box of the Hornady bullets and I imagine I want to load them high. Maybe around 1000 fps. Although I don't have +P load data, the pistol should accept +P pressures.

I have 3 candidate powders of those recommended by Sierra (for 1000 fps):

Titegroup - 6.2 gr = much higher than Winchester data
Unique - 7.7 gr
WSF 8.0 gr = much higher than Winchester data

When I look at the Hornady manual, they have different powders and weights and I have Bullseye:

Titegroup - 6.1 gr 950 fps - apparently they don't think much of Sierra 6.2 gr
= much higher than Winchester data
Bullseye - 6.6 gr 950 fps. = Alliant says 6.4 gr

Wichester tames down the loads (wimps):

WSF - 7.5 gr 981 fps
700-X - 5.5 gr 959 fps
Titegroup - 5.5 gr 956 fps

I have no real preference but I really like WSF in .40 S&W and I use a lot of 700-X for .45 ACP

Anybody loading this bullet? Thoughts?

I really want my G36 to like the rounds. It's not my opinion that the recoil of my existing loads is insufficient but I'm willing to experiment. The gun just might hate the bullet shapes.

The Hornady 185 gr Critical Defense works well and it is running 1000 fps from a 3" barrel. That is NOT the load in their manual! That thing is hot!

Stick with slower burning powders. A slow burning powder will give you higher velocity with lower pressures. Titegroup is a very fast burning powder best used for plinking loads. WSF is about the same burn rate as WW231 and is slower than titegroup or Bullseye but is still a fast burning powder compared to medium burn rate powders like Unique or Universal which have a burn rate similar to 700X.

Better powders if you're looking for velocity, are Hodgdon's CFE pistol, Winchester Autocomp and 800x

gjarcher · Nov 8, 2019

To get 1000 fps MV from the G36 3.78" barrel, you'd be looking for maximum book loads that are tested at >1100fps with a 5" test barrel, which most bullet & powder manufacturers use for their load data.

While slower burning powders might generate the velocity you want, in my experience they are inefficient in short barrels ... hence, a great amount of muzzle flash and not the velocity increase commensurate with the increase of charge weights. The only candidate +P loads I can find are Accurate Powder's .45 Auto +P load data for Ramshot ZIP, Ramshot Silhoutte, Ramshot True Blue, Accurate AA5 & AA7. However, none of the load data is for HDY 185 XTP, so you'd be working with maximum +P pressures off book.

If you are comfortable 'experimenting' with loads specifically for the HDY 185 XTP, starting low and working up slowly while looking for case head expansion and other pressure signs, Power Pistol and Longshot from the Hornady load data would be my suggestions. Using a chronograph while working up loads off book is highly recommended.

F106 Fan · Nov 8, 2019

Borg Warner said:
Stick with slower burning powders. A slow burning powder will give you higher velocity with lower pressures. Titegroup is a very fast burning powder best used for plinking loads. WSF is about the same burn rate as WW231 and is slower than titegroup or Bullseye but is still a fast burning powder compared to medium burn rate powders like Unique or Universal which have a burn rate similar to 700X.

Better powders if you're looking for velocity, are Hodgdon's CFE pistol, Winchester Autocomp and 800x

My chart shows 700-X as faster than any of the others mentioned and slightly faster than Bullseye. I have been using 700-X in .45 ACP for decades. I used to use it for trap and skeet loads as well.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2018/01/download-latest-hodgdon-imr-relative-burn-rate-chart/

I would like the powder to mostly burn up in the barrel, flames aren't required. To me, that would suggest using a fast powder, like 700-X, which I happen to have in the hopper at the moment. Winchester says 5.5 gr which is a LOT more than the 4.8 gr I use for 200 gr LSWC and 230 gr LRN and FMJ. No worries, I can crank up the weight!

I would also like to try WSF. I use it in .40 S&W and it gets rid of that nasty spike feeling typical of .40. I am using it for Sig P229s and it works very well and comes very close to matching the velocity of Federal HST which was a goal. I think it will be used in my second test group at Winchester's recommended 7.5 gr. I trust Sierra but the difference between 7.5 gr (Winchester) and 8.0 gr (Sierra) seems a bit widespread.

I have no intention of loading "off book". The issue is, as always, "which book". Sierra has charge weights far beyond Hornady (presumably bullet specific) and Winchester (conservative lawyers). But Hornady only includes Titegroup (6.1 gr) and Bullseye (6.6 gr) of the powders I have on hand.

I don't really care much about muzzle velocity, I only bring it up as a reference for a maximum load. What I really need, I think, is recoil to move the slide. Naturally, that is going to be tied to velocity.

In a perfect world, the bullet shape would solve the problem and I could load them a little lighter than max (whatever that is). I will always use the Hornady Critical Defense for SD rounds so my reloads are just for messing around.

Borg Warner · Nov 8, 2019

F106 Fan said:
My chart shows 700-X as faster than any of the others mentioned and slightly faster than Bullseye. I have been using 700-X in .45 ACP for decades. I used to use it for trap and skeet loads as well.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2018/01/download-latest-hodgdon-imr-relative-burn-rate-chart/

I would like the powder to mostly burn up in the barrel, flames aren't required. To me, that would suggest using a fast powder, like 700-X, which I happen to have in the hopper at the moment. Winchester says 5.5 gr which is a LOT more than the 4.8 gr I use for 200 gr LSWC and 230 gr LRN and FMJ. No worries, I can crank up the weight!

I would also like to try WSF. I use it in .40 S&W and it gets rid of that nasty spike feeling typical of .40. I am using it for Sig P229s and it works very well and comes very close to matching the velocity of Federal HST which was a goal. I think it will be used in my second test group at Winchester's recommended 7.5 gr. I trust Sierra but the difference between 7.5 gr (Winchester) and 8.0 gr (Sierra) seems a bit widespread.

I have no intention of loading "off book". The issue is, as always, "which book". Sierra has charge weights far beyond Hornady (presumably bullet specific) and Winchester (conservative lawyers). But Hornady only includes Titegroup (6.1 gr) and Bullseye (6.6 gr) of the powders I have on hand.

I don't really care much about muzzle velocity, I only bring it up as a reference for a maximum load. What I really need, I think, is recoil to move the slide. Naturally, that is going to be tied to velocity.

In a perfect world, the bullet shape would solve the problem and I could load them a little lighter than max (whatever that is). I will always use the Hornady Critical Defense for SD rounds so my reloads are just for messing around.

I was mistaken. 700x is a very fast burning powder and not suitable for higher velocity loads. The fact is, slower burning powder produce more velocity with lower pressures.

WSF is slightly slower than Unique and would probably work well, and Power Pistol, Auto-comp and CFE pistol might be worth a try as well.

F106 Fan · Nov 8, 2019

I have a lot of WSF (like 10#) so I really think I'll start there. I think the hot setup is to just swap out the powder measure rather than changing the settings. In fact, I might just hand measure out these sample loads rather than trying to adjust the powder bar. It might be faster.

WSF makes .40 S&W really fun to shoot!

Borg Warner · Nov 8, 2019

F106 Fan said:
I have a lot of WSF (like 10#) so I really think I'll start there. I think the hot setup is to just swap out the powder measure rather than changing the settings. In fact, I might just hand measure out these sample loads rather than trying to adjust the powder bar. It might be faster.

WSF makes .40 S&W really fun to shoot!

Definitely work up you loads by hand measuring first. Load 5 rounds with your starting load then increase that load by two tenths of a grain and load 5 more and work up to you max load.

Then mark the primers of each five rounds with a felt marker, (Starting load no mark, next increase in powder, black marker, next increase in powder blue marker, and max load Red marker)

Then shoot each 5 round load at a target and write on the target which load is which.

fredj338 · Nov 8, 2019

Borg Warner said:
Stick with slower burning powders. A slow burning powder will give you higher velocity with lower pressures. Titegroup is a very fast burning powder best used for plinking loads. WSF is about the same burn rate as WW231 and is slower than titegroup or Bullseye but is still a fast burning powder compared to medium burn rate powders like Unique or Universal which have a burn rate similar to 700X.

Better powders if you're looking for velocity, are Hodgdon's CFE pistol, Winchester Autocomp and 800x

Actually Borg WSF is almost exactly the burn rate of Unique. IF I load identical loads of Unique & WSF, the WSF loads will be slightly slower. Maybe you are thinking WST?? Which is faster than W231 by a bit, closer to TG, just better. OOPS. I see you caught that.:cheers:

stavey · Nov 8, 2019

I shoot 185g XTP/zero jhp exclusively.
I do load development in the ransom rest and over the years I have found that the 185 xtp in most cases like to be pushed fast. 7.5g of accurate #2 loaded to 1.205-1.208 will shoot around 3/4” -5 round groups at 25 yards in most of my 45’s.
Or if you want an accurate bunny fart load try 4.3 - 4.7g or WST powder under an XTP loaded to the same coal.

FlyfishermanMike · Nov 8, 2019

8.5 gr. of Power Pistol does 1,010 fps out of my Glock 30. 8 gr. Does 945 fps.

I went as high as 8.9 but shot those out of my Blackhawk.

8 gr. Of CFE Pistol does 975 fps out of my Glock 30. 7.6 gr does 910 fps.

OAL 1.230"

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

robhic · Nov 8, 2019

F106 Fan said:
So, one more try for the G36. I bought a box of the Hornady bullets and I imagine I want to load them high. Maybe around 1000 fps. Although I don't have +P load data, the pistol should accept +P pressures.

Couple of things: I've shot +P loads from my 36 without issue. You'll know you fired them (!!!) but it will handle it so I'd not worry. I also think bullet profile plays a big part. Some work. Some do not. Higher power also (in my case) seemed to cycle the gun better and better results. You mentioned LSWC and I'll tell you not to waste your time. When my 36 was digesting any and everything I loaded into it SWC would NEVER feed except one at a time. If that's OK, load away. Otherwise stay away from SWC of any type. I am interested in what your results reveal. I had to massage OAL pretty carefully because it's pretty sensitive. I'm pullin' for ya!!!

stavey · Nov 8, 2019

1.230” wont feed xtp consistently in my M&P or my P320. Even if it did I’ve tested 1.230” against 1.210 and 1.210” prints consistently smaller groups at 25 yards. Zero as well as others load their 185g “match” ammo to around 1.205-1.210 for consistent feeding across platforms.
I size using an egw undersize sizing die
Flare on the 650 using a mr bulletfeeder powder drop< amazing powder funnel
Winchester brass
Winchester primers
Seat using a Redding competition seating die on the 650
Light or no crimp
I’ve been testing 9mm and 45 acp for years . I think every serious reloader should have a ransom rest.
For 45acp it’s not even worth getting the chrono out

F106 Fan · Nov 9, 2019

Well, I loaded a few hundred LSWC yesterday to use up the powder in the hopper. For the first time in 3 or 4 years, the 650 is empty.

I have decided to hand measure the powder so I bought an AT 500 Powder Die, Plastic Funnel and Powder Funnel (.45 ACP) from Dillon. I think I'll set up a toolhead for messing around with development loads.

BTW, Amazon has .30 cal ammo cans with free Prime shipping. The price isn't the lowest around but from other suppliers, the freight is outrageous. I get these the next day:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077XMQL7X

That's the problem with 650 and 1050 presses. You can load so much ammo, so fast, that the incidental costs get out of control. Things like ammo cans and such...

F106 Fan · Nov 9, 2019

robhic said:
You mentioned LSWC and I'll tell you not to waste your time. When my 36 was digesting any and everything I loaded into it SWC would NEVER feed except one at a time. If that's OK, load away. Otherwise stay away from SWC of any type. I am interested in what your results reveal. I had to massage OAL pretty carefully because it's pretty sensitive. I'm pullin' for ya!!!

In the bad old days, even the Colt Model 70 1911 wouldn't feed LSWC without a bunch of grinding on the feed ramp. I got carried away and have done what few others could: I got a Glock Bulge on a Colt! OOPS! Barstow replacement barrels were cheaper back then...

These days my LSWC loads work in all of my .45s except the G36 and, you're right, I don't even bother. My LRN don't work either nor does at least one brand of FMJ.

I think I'm on the right track and since I don't have anything else to do, I'm going to beat this problem into submission.

I bought a Ruger LCP some years back and the feedramp had an oxide finish. It wouldn't cycle worth a darn. A little Flitz and a Dremel tool fixed it right up. Maybe I should polish the feed ramp on the G36 while I'm at it. It seems pretty shiny and smooth but who knows? Maybe it will help...

F106 Fan · Nov 9, 2019

stavey said:
1.230” wont feed xtp consistently in my M&P or my P320. Even if it did I’ve tested 1.230” against 1.210 and 1.210” prints consistently smaller groups at 25 yards. Zero as well as others load their 185g “match” ammo to around 1.205-1.210 for consistent feeding across platforms.

I'll have to back down some on the powder as the Hornady data is based on 1.245". I think shorter will turn out to be better so I'll probably assemble a few bullet/case examples and hand cycle the gun to get an idea of which length will work.

I size using an egw undersize sizing die
Flare on the 650 using a mr bulletfeeder powder drop< amazing powder funnel
Winchester brass
Winchester primers
Seat using a Redding competition seating die on the 650
Light or no crimp
I’ve been testing 9mm and 45 acp for years . I think every serious reloader should have a ransom rest.
For 45acp it’s not even worth getting the chrono out

I like Redding competition dies. In fact, I like them so much, I think I'll order one for this project.

I have always wanted a ransom rest but the fact is, I don't shoot for bullseye (or PPC) any more. Absolute accuracy just isn't an issue for my pistol loads. Rifle? Absolutely! I like little bitty (and repeatable) groups from my Rem 700 .308 and I have high expectations of my M1A Super Match (not so much from my M1A Standard).

FlyfishermanMike · Nov 10, 2019

F106 Fan said:
I'll have to back down some on the powder as the Hornady data is based on 1.245". I think shorter will turn out to be better so I'll probably assemble a few bullet/case examples and hand cycle the gun to get an idea of which length will work.

Their newer data is based off 1.245" while some of their older is 1.225" The loads I posted above are right at max so be careful. Unless you're right at max it's best to find an OAL that feeds best in your gun(s). Plunk test all you're barrels!

I've shot +P out of my 45 Shield and its surprisingly comfortable.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

fredj338 · Nov 10, 2019

F106 Fan said:
Well, I loaded a few hundred LSWC yesterday to use up the powder in the hopper. For the first time in 3 or 4 years, the 650 is empty.

I have decided to hand measure the powder so I bought an AT 500 Powder Die, Plastic Funnel and Powder Funnel (.45 ACP) from Dillon. I think I'll set up a toolhead for messing around with development loads.

BTW, Amazon has .30 cal ammo cans with free Prime shipping. The price isn't the lowest around but from other suppliers, the freight is outrageous. I get these the next day:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077XMQL7X

That's the problem with 650 and 1050 presses. You can load so much ammo, so fast, that the incidental costs get out of control. Things like ammo cans and such...

Just back away frm the press F105??:cheers:

F106 Fan · Nov 10, 2019

I loaded a few thousand .45 ACPs early in the year, hence the ammo cans. I left some powder in the the hopper and primers in the tube so I thought I might as well load until I used up the powder. In theory, the powder should still be good but I would never consider pouring it back in an 8# jug. OTOH, it should still go bang so I might as well shoot it up.

Reloading .45 ACP Hornady 185 gr XTP Bullet

F106 Fan

fredj338

Collo Rosso

Borg Warner

gjarcher

F106 Fan

Borg Warner

F106 Fan

Borg Warner

fredj338

stavey

FlyfishermanMike

robhic

stavey

F106 Fan

F106 Fan

F106 Fan

FlyfishermanMike

fredj338

F106 Fan

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