Interesting topic.
The Military and 9mm?
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Railsplitter
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Interesting topic.
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The guy makes a good point. With FMJ use the .40 and .45 are both bigger than the 9mm the 10mm and 357 Sig both have more barrier penetrating velocities. Doesn't add up does it except for the NATO BS that we could easily ignore.
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Ok, who is this guy & why would you think he has a point? He thinks the military adopted the p365? I agree, 9mm ball sucks, but 40 isnt really any better, neither is 357sig. If you must use solids, its only 45acp. Pistols in the military are way down the list of necessities Imo.
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And the US Military, in some places, uses JHPs.
U.S. Military Moves From Full Metal Jacket To Hollowpoint Rounds
For decades the U.S. military has used full metal jacket (FMJ) rounds for their pistols, but are finally switching to jacketed hollowpoints (JHP).
gunsamerica.com
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541 Posts
Let me destroy this guy's arguement
1. Military just switched to Sig
2. 9mm has been a defensive weapon and rarely sees combat
3. Some in the military cannot use 45 or 10mm, (The military usually allows only 50 rounds of training a year)
4. They are attempting use JHP in 9 as it is primarily a defensive and not offensive round, skirting Hague
5. He has no ties to the military, you can tell by comments like P365, and white box is Nato ammo, no Nato 9mm is hotter.
1. Military just switched to Sig
2. 9mm has been a defensive weapon and rarely sees combat
3. Some in the military cannot use 45 or 10mm, (The military usually allows only 50 rounds of training a year)
4. They are attempting use JHP in 9 as it is primarily a defensive and not offensive round, skirting Hague
5. He has no ties to the military, you can tell by comments like P365, and white box is Nato ammo, no Nato 9mm is hotter.
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I've heard it said the use of JHP in the military was for SOF to use in ops against terrorism. The rational was the Hague conventions didn't apply since it was not a declared war. IDK if that is legit or not, but that was the rumor back when I was kicking around with military folks.
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5,146 Posts
Remington UMC 180 FMJ-
.
Late production, two gallons of water and an inch into a phone book-
I've seen this frequently enough from this load--including its earlier, copper jacket variety-
-to be convinced it isn't a fluke.
In my world a thin-jacket flat point 40 FMJ, which occasionally deforms is 'better' than pointy 9mm ball that doesn't.
And finally- Pistols in the military are way down your list of necessities. Veterans from my family alone used handguns in combat five times, from WWII to The Sandbox.
Pistols are also way down the list of civilian necessities, but we carry them anyway.
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I doubt there is a consideration to switch to 40. The video from the title alone reads like click bait. Plus GFG’s facts are off in several places. However, Coast Guard & NCIS had 40 and it was phased out with the SIG M17/M18 adoption.
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Oh and we have stockpiles of probably millions of rounds of 9mm, not to mention, Sig building that ammo plant. It would be unbelievable costs to switch now
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Maybe we can get some Ukraine $ back. 😩
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^^^This^^^
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As part of the M17/M18 9mm Modular Handgun System contract, U.S. Military is replacing "pointy" M882 124gr FMJ with flat point M1152 115gr FMJ, to "increase lethality", (and also adopting special purpose M1153 147gr JHP).
Photo below shows M1153, left, and M1152, right.
Not buying what this guy is selling, BUT...
If the military is unhappy with the terminal performance of 9mm ball ammo, but is treaty constrained from using hollow points, maybe they should test the Phillips head screwdriver bit tipped fluted rounds to see if there's anything to that concept as far as getting enhanced wounding from non-expandimg, non-fragmenting rounds.
I'm not convince they work, but, given the constraints imposed, it would be worth finding out.
If the military is unhappy with the terminal performance of 9mm ball ammo, but is treaty constrained from using hollow points, maybe they should test the Phillips head screwdriver bit tipped fluted rounds to see if there's anything to that concept as far as getting enhanced wounding from non-expandimg, non-fragmenting rounds.
I'm not convince they work, but, given the constraints imposed, it would be worth finding out.
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The military and FBI have tested fluted bullets.
All the flutes do is create a temporary cavity no larger in diameter than the temporary cavity produced by an expanded JHP bullet.
The temporary cavity - the "splash" created by a bullet penetrating water-filled soft tissues - simply pushes soft tissues away from the bullet's path.
A handgun bullet must directly contact critical tissues to be effective. Critical tissues in the torso are elastic soft tissues that easily stretch and rebound with little more damage than bruising.
The temporary cavity produces blunt trauma-like damage to soft tissues.
This would not surprise me. I've always been skeptical. Do you know if those test results were published? And was there any live tissue testing?
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We never signed the 1899 Hague Convention
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