[Bosch]

Hold on I may not have been wrong after all.
It seems the ATF classification of a shotgun includes a gun designed or REDESIGNED, made or REMADE to be fired from the shoulder.

Is a shotgun a firearm subject to the NFA? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The NFA defines shotgun, in part, as a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles...

www.atf.gov

As Mac said. ^^

In the exact same way a brace doesn't make a pistol AR an SBR.

 

[garya1961]

As Mac said. ^^

In the exact same way a brace doesn't make a pistol AR an SBR.

But it does contradict the not a shotgun never a shotgun. If you put a stock on a shockwave you have created a short barrel shotgun as I said.
I believe I had the AOW backwards though. If you remove the grip and install a brace on the shockwave wouldn't it then fall into the AOW category?

 

[Bosch]

But it does contradict the not a shotgun never a shotgun. If you put a stock on a shockwave you have created a short barrel shotgun as I said.
I believe I had the AOW backwards though. If you remove the grip and install a brace on the shockwave wouldn't it then fall into the AOW category?

No, it doesn't.

Brace Yourself for the Remington TAC 14 SBL: SB Tactical Does it again! - The Loadout Room

Who doesn't love the SB Tactical line of pistol braces? They are as revolutionary as they are controversial. Today we are looking at the new Remington Tac 14 SBL kit and seeing if it can keep up with a 12 gauge.

loadoutroom.com

.

 

[nipperwolf]

....

 

[garya1961]

Why do you keep calling the brace a stock?

I am not calling a brace a stock. Someone said a shockwave could never be a shotgun. I said if you put a "stock" on a shockwave you have created a short barrel shotgun.

 

[garya1961]

Some may think I'm just trying to argue, I'm not. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. If I'm wrong I will gladly admit it as I have already done once in this thread.

 

[Pmedly]

I’ve gone down this rabbit hole myself a few months ago when I got my shockwave. My understanding between the paperwork that came with the firearm and talking to different people is changing the birds head out changes how the ATF views the firearm. In my opinion, putting a brace on it is a gray area I didn’t really want to mess with and trying to save $200 isn’t worth it. I’d form 1 it and never worry about it again but to each their own.

 

[garya1961]

If it was legal to put a brace on a shockwave don't you think you could buy one that way? How many shockwaves with a brace have you seen for sale on the internet?
It's not a gray area it is illegal. It has never been legal. The shockwave is intended to be used with two hands. Anything on the butt other than the birdshead grip would be considered a buttstock for shoulder firing.

 

[Bosch]

If it was legal to put a brace on a shockwave don't you think you could buy one that way? How many shockwaves with a brace have you seen for sale on the internet?
It's not a gray area it is illegal. It has never been legal. The shockwave is intended to be used with two hands. Anything on the butt other than the birdshead grip would be considered a buttstock for shoulder firing.

You can once they are in stock again. Remington and a few others sell them like that.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/remington-870-tac-14-arm-brace-12-gauge-pump-action-rifle-matte-black-81240.html

 

[Bosch]

or here...

Remington 870 TAC-14 Arm Brace Firearm

The Remington 870 TAC-14 is small in size but huge on home defense capability, the Model 870 TAC-14 delivers devastating power.

atlanticfirearms.com

"Classified as a "Firearm" not a shotgun and fully-compliant by Federal BATFE, these 12 gauge models require no Tax Stamp for transfers, where permitted."

 

[Pmedly]

If it was legal to put a brace on a shockwave don't you think you could buy one that way? How many shockwaves with a brace have you seen for sale on the internet?
It's not a gray area it is illegal. It has never been legal. The shockwave is intended to be used with two hands. Anything on the butt other than the birdshead grip would be considered a buttstock for shoulder firing.

I agree, thats why I said just form 1 it. Shoulda been a little more specific with what I meant. Everything says illegal but they sell braces with many people owning them and whatnot, hence why I said gray since companies make them. Not worth committing a felony over $200 imo.

 

[garya1961]

You can once they are in stock again. Remington and a few others sell them like that.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/remington-870-tac-14-arm-brace-12-gauge-pump-action-rifle-matte-black-81240.html

or here...

Remington 870 TAC-14 Arm Brace Firearm

The Remington 870 TAC-14 is small in size but huge on home defense capability, the Model 870 TAC-14 delivers devastating power.

atlanticfirearms.com

"Classified as a "Firearm" not a shotgun and fully-compliant by Federal BATFE, these 12 gauge models require no Tax Stamp for transfers, where permitted."

Out of stock, no reviews of guns sold? It wouldn't be the first time the ATF pulled the plug on a firearm or accessory that hit the market. Until I see one that you can actually order I'm standing by original statement.
Show me one that I can order.

 

[Bosch]

e.

Out of stock, no reviews of guns sold? It wouldn't be the first time the ATF pulled the plug on a firearm or accessory that hit the market. Until I see one that you can actually order I'm standing by original statement.
Show me one that I can order.

No. You are free to believe what you like. I stopped caring just a moment ago.

 

[garya1961]

e.

No. You are free to believe what you like. I stopped caring just a moment ago.

I give you that they were once listed for sale but I have searched and cannot find any that are currently available. As I said earlier I just want to get to the bottom of this. There is a lot of conflicting info and at best it is a gray area if not illegal. Mess around in the gray area with the ATF and you may not like where you end up.
I'm personally going to consider them illegal until it is proven otherwise.

 

[Steel & Wood]

A brace does not change a "firearm" i.e. Shockwave into a SBS because it's still not intended to be fired from the shoulder even though you can. So yes, a brace on a Shockwave is legal.

This answer is 100% true and that is why SB tactical makes a brace specifically for the Shockwave and the tac-14.

As Mac said. ^^

In the exact same way a brace doesn't make a pistol AR an SBR.

Again, 100% true!

The shockwave was never intended to be fired with one hand as a pistol would be, therefore attaching a brace to a shockwave is creating an illegal firearm without a stamp. Since the weapon is not intended to be fired with one hand the brace would be considered a stock for shoulder firing and the weapon would be considered a short barrel shotgun.
This is from everything I can find on the subject, second hand atf reporting.
Some may think I'm just trying to argue, I'm not. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. If I'm wrong I will gladly admit it as I have already done once in this thread.

Then why does SB Tactical make braces for these firearms? I know they make them because I have one and I have used it at the range with no issues or questions about it:

I’ve gone down this rabbit hole myself a few months ago when I got my shockwave. My understanding between the paperwork that came with the firearm and talking to different people is changing the birds head out changes how the ATF views the firearm. In my opinion, putting a brace on it is a gray area I didn’t really want to mess with and trying to save $200 isn’t worth it. I’d form 1 it and never worry about it again but to each their own.

If that's true then why hasn't SB Tactical been raided by the ATF?

MY TAKE-AWAY FROM THE ENTIRE THREAD SO FAR......

1. The SB Technical brace is 100% legal on the Mossberg 590 Shockwave (or Remington Tac-14).

2. A brace is not designed nor intended to allow the Shockwave (or Tac-14) to be fired from the shoulder.

3. I still don't know if I can unscrew the SB Tactical tube and screw in my Kynshot recoil damper or any other standard AR-15 5- or 6-position buffer tube?????

 

[mac66]

The Shockwave grip really is only relevant because it brings the firearm up to the 26" OAL minimum and is not intended to be fired from the shoulder. One hand or two handed has nothing to do with it.

Consequently you can put anything on a Shockwave as long as you keep the OAL 26" or longer and it's not intended to be fired from the shoulder.

A brace is not intended to be fired from the shoulder and is therefore allowed.

A stock changes the Shockwave into a shotgun because it's intended to be fired from the shoulder and because it has a barrel less than 18" it becomes a short barrel shotgun.

 

[garya1961]

This answer is 100% true and that is why SB tactical makes a brace specifically for the Shockwave and the tac-14.



Again, 100% true!



Then why does SB Tactical make braces for these firearms? I know they make them because I have one and I have used it at the range with no issues or questions about it:
View attachment 1354215



If that's true then why hasn't SB Tactical been raided by the ATF?
View attachment 1354217

MY TAKE-AWAY FROM THE ENTIRE THREAD SO FAR......

1. The SB Technical brace is 100% legal on the Mossberg 590 Shockwave (or Remington Tac-14).

2. A brace is not designed nor intended to allow the Shockwave (or Tac-14) to be fired from the shoulder.

3. I still don't know if I can unscrew the SB Tactical tube and screw in my Kynshot recoil damper or any other standard AR-15 5- or 6-position buffer tube?????

It seems you may be correct, I was just able to add a shockwave brace to my cart. It's just that there is so much conflicted info on this that I'm still a little skeptical. I don't have a Shockwave or tac14 and never really wanted one. I actually prefer a shotgun with a real buttstock even if used for home defense.
As I said before I will admit I am wrong and it seems I may be wrong on this. I would like to find something definite from the ATF though before I make my final judgment.

 

[Steel & Wood]

The Shockwave grip really is only relevant because it brings the firearm up to the 26" OAL minimum and is not intended to be fired from the shoulder. One hand or two handed has nothing to do with it.

Consequently you can put anything on a Shockwave as long as you keep the OAL 26" or longer and it's not intended to be fired from the shoulder.

A brace is not intended to be fired from the shoulder and is therefore allowed.

A stock changes the Shockwave into a shotgun because it's intended to be fired from the shoulder and because it has a barrel less than 18" it becomes a short barrel shotgun.

I believe this is the answer I was looking for, thank you so much!

In essence, because the KynShot recoil damper is designed to mitigate recoil on the shoulder, it is therefore illegal to attach to a Shockwave or Tac-14 and then attach a brace!

Do you all agree with this statement?

 

[Bosch]

I would like to find something definite from the ATF though before I make my final judgment.

Best of luck with that one. They don't even know the laws they make up.

 

[Pmedly]

This answer is 100% true and that is why SB tactical makes a brace specifically for the Shockwave and the tac-14.



Again, 100% true!



Then why does SB Tactical make braces for these firearms? I know they make them because I have one and I have used it at the range with no issues or questions about it:
View attachment 1354215



If that's true then why hasn't SB Tactical been raided by the ATF?
View attachment 1354217

MY TAKE-AWAY FROM THE ENTIRE THREAD SO FAR......

1. The SB Technical brace is 100% legal on the Mossberg 590 Shockwave (or Remington Tac-14).

2. A brace is not designed nor intended to allow the Shockwave (or Tac-14) to be fired from the shoulder.

3. I still don't know if I can unscrew the SB Tactical tube and screw in my Kynshot recoil damper or any other standard AR-15 5- or 6-position buffer tube?????

Just stated that from info I’ve gotten and also by clearly how muddy the water is, it’s just easier to avoid for me. Honest curiosity here, if the brace isn’t meant to be shouldered and they’re legal then how would changing the tube to the recoil damper make any difference with legality?