[Bluefish7]

I have a G19 MOS that currently has the factory plastic sights. I will be installing a Holosun SCS-MOS green dot sight on it. My questions are about replacing the plastic sights with something that will pair well with the Holosun SCS. This will be my first attempt at co-witnessing, so I have no idea what is best, or even if I am considering all the right questions.

1) What do you recommend regarding how/where the sights should co-witness: lower 1/5, lower 1/3, absolute, etc.? Should this factor heavily into my decision making process? What are the pros/cons of each?

2) I am considering the Ameriglo Trooper sights. Will classic 3 dot night sights like the Troopers work well with the Holosun, or will this create a sight picture that is too busy (4 dots altogether)? Would something simpler like Ameriglo i-Dots or Ameriglo CAP sights work better and result in a less busy sight picture?

3) Would I use standard size sights (i.e., same height as the factory plastic sights) or would I need taller sights?

4) Other than the Ameriglos, what other sights would you recommend?

A little about me (to help with the recommendations) and the use of the gun…I am an intermediate shooter, but have zero experience with red/green dots. I wear glasses (bi-focal/transitional lenses). The gun will be a bedside/home defense/range gun, and maybe occasional winter carry. My EDC is a G43.

Thank you!

 

[Eagle1]

Message sent

 

[jf44]

G19 Gen5 MOS and Holosun SCS mos for 6K round until it failed to me! (it was a PITA to get a warranty replacement)

The SCS sits low and will totally cowitness with factory and Ameriglo Troopers (don't like this will take almost 50% of your field of view of the little SCS glass) Ameriglo Trooper 818 this combination created too much bright points on my 19, Removed this and went with Trijicon RMR and suppressor height sight to get the 1/4 cowittness that I wanted and never looked back.

 

[Eagle1]

pic of mine.

 

[TheDirtyGoT]

stock sights work perfect with the SCS on my 19 gen 5 mos

 

[vindibona1]

I didn't read all the responses, but when you install a red dot I would think that the only requirement for irons is that you can get a useable sight picture with them with them through the RD window. I'm not an expert at such things but it would seem that if using the RD at time the irons would be irrelevant and if using the irons, if you can see them then the RD wouldn't be in use anyway. i don't know that it's useful to be able to have both exactly on a target at the same time as long as both are zeroed independently. When I installed my RD I just kept the regular irons (not suspressor height or anything like that) as I could still use them if the RD fails. In fact, I like the fact that the irons aren't visually in the way when sighting with the RD. Hopefully I understood the question and provided a reasonable reply.

 

[sas-G19]

I have a G19 MOS that currently has the factory plastic sights. I will be installing a Holosun SCS-MOS green dot sight on it. My questions are about replacing the plastic sights with something that will pair well with the Holosun SCS. This will be my first attempt at co-witnessing, so I have no idea what is best, or even if I am considering all the right questions.

1) What do you recommend regarding how/where the sights should co-witness: lower 1/5, lower 1/3, absolute, etc.? Should this factor heavily into my decision making process? What are the pros/cons of each?

2) I am considering the Ameriglo Trooper sights. Will classic 3 dot night sights like the Troopers work well with the Holosun, or will this create a sight picture that is too busy (4 dots altogether)? Would something simpler like Ameriglo i-Dots or Ameriglo CAP sights work better and result in a less busy sight picture?

3) Would I use standard size sights (i.e., same height as the factory plastic sights) or would I need taller sights?

4) Other than the Ameriglos, what other sights would you recommend?

A little about me (to help with the recommendations) and the use of the gun…I am an intermediate shooter, but have zero experience with red/green dots. I wear glasses (bi-focal/transitional lenses). The gun will be a bedside/home defense/range gun, and maybe occasional winter carry. My EDC is a G43.

Thank you!

Look at posts #2 and #3 in the following thread.

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/anyone-put-a-holosun-scs-on-a-wide-slide-glock.1979346/#post-32069642

Admittedly I do not know about the differences of the sight heights vs. your G19MOS and my G20 gen5 MOS.

 

[bigoldbuck]

For RDS use on a Glock I would go with a lower 1/3 view of the irons thru the optic. I prefer a figure 8 (dot on the front sight and single center dot on the rear)…but not the obviously over-bright dots. Too many things to look at through the RDS is bad for what you are trying to accomplish with an optic on a pistol. Call AmeriGlo and they will set you up with the correct height and type of irons specific to your optic and needs.

 

[Lab4Us]

If you use an SCS-MOS on a MOS Glock (not G43x or G48), you can use OEM height sights and should get lower 1/3 so you can use irons if RDS fails. I’d recommend black or non outlined tritium on front. I had a Big Dot with outlined tritium and even being in lower 1/3 was distracting to me when dot or circle dot in center of window. Granted, Big Dot is bigger than normal front sight, but it was distracting enough, I went with black.

 

[racer88]

As I have evolved and learned... I think the very notion of "co-witness" is flawed. I say so, because the term "co-witness" implies using the two different sighting systems simultaneously. And I think a lot of novices will do exactly that... take the time to "confirm" BOTH sighting systems are aligned. Of course, that is incorrect and could be detrimental in a self-defense situation.

Use one or the other. And unless the RDS fails... very very unlikely (with a quality optic and regularly scheduled battery changes)... the iron sights become vestigial.

As for the degree of "co-witness," which would be better simply termed "visibility," I submit that the less, the better. The back-up iron sights only need to be visible. The sight alignment of the irons does NOT have to be the same or superimposed on the "dot" of the optic. They are two completely separate sighting systems that do NOT need to "co-witness" or coincide.

In other words, if I'm going to be able to see the iron sights, I'd rather they occupy or obstruct as little of the optic window as possible. With so-called "100%" or "Full" co-witness, nearly half of the window is obstructed by the silhouette of the iron sights.

I've got more thoughts on this... which may be part of a blog article, which has been brewing in my head for a while. So, I'll end here.

What say ye?

 

[Lab4Us]

As I have evolved and learned... I think the very notion of "co-witness" is flawed. I say so, because the term "co-witness" implies using the two different sighting systems simultaneously. And I think a lot of novices will do exactly that... take the time to "confirm" BOTH sighting systems are aligned. Of course, that is incorrect and could be detrimental in a self-defense situation.

Use one or the other. And unless the RDS fails... very very unlikely (with a quality optic and regularly scheduled battery changes)... the iron sights become vestigial.

As for the degree of "co-witness," which would be better simply termed "visibility," I submit that the less, the better. The back-up iron sights only need to be visible. The sight alignment of the irons does NOT have to be the same or superimposed on the "dot" of the optic. They are two completely separate sighting systems that do NOT need to "co-witness" or coincide.

In other words, if I'm going to be able to see the iron sights, I'd rather they occupy or obstruct as little of the optic window as possible. With so-called "100%" or "Full" co-witness, nearly half of the window is obstructed by the silhouette of the iron sights.

I've got more thoughts on this... which may be part of a blog article, which has been brewing in my head for a while. So, I'll end here.

What say ye?

Concur. And I’m hoping to get to a point of comfortableness of dropping irons completely (because realistically who is going to line up a sight picture when milliseconds count) and just having only a reliable RDS on my gun. Even then, if by some bizarre reason my RDS fails, I’m thinking point shooting using my RDS window gives me more of a fighting chance than trying to create an iron sight site picture under immense stress.

I‘m also debating making my G43 my test gun and sending slide in to have 507k cut with zero cowitness (RDS almost fully to rear) removing dovetail and plugging front sight hole. Then again, I could do it much cheaper removing sights from G48 MOS that already has a HE507K-GR-X2 with ACSS® Vulcan® on it. I’m just more likely to carry the G43!

 

[racer88]

Concur. And I’m hoping to get to a point of comfortableness of dropping irons completely (because realistically who is going to line up a sight picture when milliseconds count) and just having only a reliable RDS on my gun. Even then, if by some bizarre reason my RDS fails, I’m thinking point shooting using my RDS window gives me more of a fighting chance than trying to create an iron sight site picture under immense stress.

I‘m also debating making my G43 my test gun and sending slide in to have 507k cut with zero cowitness (RDS almost fully to rear) removing dovetail and plugging front sight hole. Then again, I could do it much cheaper removing sights from G48 MOS that already has a HE507K-GR-X2 with ACSS® Vulcan® on it. I’m just more likely to carry the G43!

I've been trying to find a "plug" or "blank" that could be drifted into the rear sight dovetail for a planned G17L clone build...

I was able to find a front sight hole plug. But apparently nobody makes a rear dovetail plug. I bought a steel Glock rear sight that I might try to mill down flush. This will be a range only target gun with an optic (of course).

 

[Lab4Us]

Like these? 😀

C&H Rear Sight Dovetail Filler Plate for Glock Dovetails - C&H Precision

If you have a built-in rear sight on your optic or simply want to delete your dovetail in favor of a smoother look for your optics setup, this simple polymer dovetail filler plate is perfect. Simple and easy to install!

chpws.com

The Wedgie: Glock Rear Site Dovetail Filler Blank

Perfect solution if you are running a red dot optic on a cut slide and want to remove your iron sights.

lakelinellc.com

 

[racer88]

Like these? 😀

C&H Rear Sight Dovetail Filler Plate for Glock Dovetails - C&H Precision

If you have a built-in rear sight on your optic or simply want to delete your dovetail in favor of a smoother look for your optics setup, this simple polymer dovetail filler plate is perfect. Simple and easy to install!

chpws.com

The Wedgie: Glock Rear Site Dovetail Filler Blank

Perfect solution if you are running a red dot optic on a cut slide and want to remove your iron sights.

lakelinellc.com

Damn, you got me excited.... but I'm looking for a metal blank, not a 3D printed plastic filler.

 

[Lab4Us]

Damn, you got me excited.... but I'm looking for a metal blank, not a 3D printed plastic filler.

Sorry, didn’t know you had additional requests! JK. Personally, I’d have no issues using plastic on a plastic gun, though I’ll still probably go for dovetail delete.

 

[racer88]

Sorry, didn’t know you had additional requests! JK. Personally, I’d have no issues using plastic on a plastic gun, though I’ll still probably go for dovetail delete.

A stainless finished blank would go well with this slide.

 

[Bluefish7]

As I have evolved and learned... I think the very notion of "co-witness" is flawed. I say so, because the term "co-witness" implies using the two different sighting systems simultaneously. And I think a lot of novices will do exactly that... take the time to "confirm" BOTH sighting systems are aligned. Of course, that is incorrect and could be detrimental in a self-defense situation.

Use one or the other. And unless the RDS fails... very very unlikely (with a quality optic and regularly scheduled battery changes)... the iron sights become vestigial.

As for the degree of "co-witness," which would be better simply termed "visibility," I submit that the less, the better. The back-up iron sights only need to be visible. The sight alignment of the irons does NOT have to be the same or superimposed on the "dot" of the optic. They are two completely separate sighting systems that do NOT need to "co-witness" or coincide.

In other words, if I'm going to be able to see the iron sights, I'd rather they occupy or obstruct as little of the optic window as possible. With so-called "100%" or "Full" co-witness, nearly half of the window is obstructed by the silhouette of the iron sights.

I've got more thoughts on this... which may be part of a blog article, which has been brewing in my head for a while. So, I'll end here.

What say ye?

Concur. And I’m hoping to get to a point of comfortableness of dropping irons completely (because realistically who is going to line up a sight picture when milliseconds count) and just having only a reliable RDS on my gun. Even then, if by some bizarre reason my RDS fails, I’m thinking point shooting using my RDS window gives me more of a fighting chance than trying to create an iron sight site picture under immense stress.

I‘m also debating making my G43 my test gun and sending slide in to have 507k cut with zero cowitness (RDS almost fully to rear) removing dovetail and plugging front sight hole. Then again, I could do it much cheaper removing sights from G48 MOS that already has a HE507K-GR-X2 with ACSS® Vulcan® on it. I’m just more likely to carry the G43!

I like the thought process here, and it agrees with my use case of only having the iron sights as a back up in the unlikely case that the RDS fails. However, this raises a couple of additional questions in my mind:

1) Will the RDS be adequate/optimal in all scenarios, all lighting conditions, etc. or will there potentially be scenarios where I would want/need to switch to the iron sights even when the RDS is working flawlessly?

2) At 1/3 or even 1/5 co-witness (i.e., with the RDS obstructing as little of the optic window as possible) will the RDS and the backup iron sights still hit the same POI/POA? And if not, is this an issue?

Thank you!

 

[bigoldbuck]

Bluefish7: My handgun iron sights are as low as possible (as seen thru the optic window) and are sighted in as you would normally have on any pistol. As was stated earlier, the RDS is sighted in separately to whatever distance you prefer as a stand alone POI; there is no need for the RDS dot to mate up with the iron sights/front sight. To answer your question, “no” it doesn’t matter relative to the POI/POA. All that being said, I don’t believe I’ll ever be comfortable running a pistol with only a RDS without a set of iron sights….which is the same philosophy I adhere to with my AR’s and their folding BUIS’.

 

[biscut53]

I've found Shadow Systems OEM works well with dots. BUT my personal favorite for my eyes and a setup I'm running on a G21, G22, G34 is SCS with Dawson black steel front and rear. My eye uses the dot as it should without confusion about the front site. Quick, fast, and accurate. If the dot were to malfunction the irons are excellent on their own.

 

[jim c]

As I have evolved and learned... I think the very notion of "co-witness" is flawed. I say so, because the term "co-witness" implies using the two different sighting systems simultaneously. And I think a lot of novices will do exactly that... take the time to "confirm" BOTH sighting systems are aligned. Of course, that is incorrect and could be detrimental in a self-defense situation.

Use one or the other. And unless the RDS fails... very very unlikely (with a quality optic and regularly scheduled battery changes)... the iron sights become vestigial.

As for the degree of "co-witness," which would be better simply termed "visibility," I submit that the less, the better. The back-up iron sights only need to be visible. The sight alignment of the irons does NOT have to be the same or superimposed on the "dot" of the optic. They are two completely separate sighting systems that do NOT need to "co-witness" or coincide.

In other words, if I'm going to be able to see the iron sights, I'd rather they occupy or obstruct as little of the optic window as possible. With so-called "100%" or "Full" co-witness, nearly half of the window is obstructed by the silhouette of the iron sights.

I've got more thoughts on this... which may be part of a blog article, which has been brewing in my head for a while. So, I'll end here.

What say ye?

Concur, as well

My stock sights are merely a reference point for when my optic is on target. Working with a few instructors who have attended rds courses, they also do the same.