[Lola1]

No, not sleeping one off. The media describes the sig 320 as “cocked at rest” meaning the striker is not half was cocked but ready to fire. Thus, people are claiming the basis for the discharges complained of. The glock, i think, is half cocked and pulling the trigger fully cocks and releases? Is that right? My question, though, pertains to the sig 365, which is my often carry. Is it fully cocked when a round is placed into the chamber by working the slide backwards. Anyone hear of similar claims with that gun.

 

[Coyote3855]

I believe you are correct in your first two assertions. I don't know about the 365.

 

[peng]

The Glock is more than half cocked, and could easily fire a round at that compression but the FP safety makes it impossible until you pull the trigger and complete the striker spring compression.

 

[MarkCO]

The Glock is more than half cocked, and could easily fire a round at that compression

Absolutely false! The striker on a Glock does not have enough energy when cocked. Tons of tests with variable conditions. By Glock before they came to market, and many since.

The M&P and XD, they have enough energy to ignite primers. So does the P320, but the safety is not as robust as on the M&P and XD.

 

[peng]

Let me find my source for that, I read it not that long ago.

Do you have a source for it being false?

My memory says the Glock striker is about 70% compressed after reset. Not 70% of the full spring length but 70% of the max compression it would see just before the striker lets go.

 

[MarkCO]

Do you have a source for it being false?

When the Judge allows me to testify and the opposition withdraws their expert because my lab testing is undeniable...I'll quote myself.

 

[cciman]

The media has it right.
The Glock (difference) enjoys that additional level of mechanical safety, but at a cost for that Glock trigger feel.

 

[n2g]

I am curious about all this, too.

No idea whether credible or not, but I read somewhere a long time ago that Glocks are around 80% compressed and M&Ps about 90 to 95% compressed (compared to just before firing), but both brands have robust internal safeties. The M&Ps can be bought with a thumb safety option as well.

Does anyone know what internal safeties the Ruger LCP Max has? I think the hammer moves back only about 1/8", which isn't much, when the trigger is pulled, but I'm not sure. I just bought one of those for possible pocket carry (in a holster of course) and was wondering.

Unintended discharges don't seem to be a prevalent problem with any of the above. Of course occasionally something other than a finger snags a trigger, but that's not the pistol's fault.

Just curious.

 

[Walter Bishop]

I've never seen anything from Glock or any other source saying what percentage the striker is pretensioned or whether it could fire a round without the striker block safety. Seen estimates ranging up to 90 percent. I have always found it suspicious that Glock wouldn't say since they put so much emphasis on the gun being safer than SA or DA/SA.

 

[peng]

We used to have a poster here, Mike-M, who I think quoted a 90% compressed number years ago.

This would not be hard to see and measure from a Glock cutaway, which I'm sure he said is what he did.

I would trust actual test data over any talk though.

 

[warbow150]

My question, though, pertains to the sig 365, which is my often carry. Is it fully cocked when a round is placed into the chamber by working the slide backwards. Anyone hear of similar claims with that gun.

My understanding is yes. On a 365 series pistol, the striker is fully charged/compressed when the slide is cycled. I often carry a 365XL and don’t worry about it. (I more often carry Glocks, and don’t worry about their being only partially charged/compressed either).

If your 365 is is proper operating condition it’s not firing unless the trigger is completely manipulated through the firing strike.

 

[DirectDrive]

We used to have a poster here, Mike-M, who I think quoted a 90% compressed number years ago.

This would not be hard to see and measure from a Glock cutaway, which I'm sure he said is what he did.

I would trust actual test data over any talk though.

I've never seen 90% for a Glock, but I've seen 70% charged for a Glock that is in battery, ready to fire.
I have never seen it officially declared by Glock.
Maybe it was "observed" in one of the "Cutaway Glocks" ?
In any event, you can feel you're doing more than tripping a sear when you press a Glock trigger.

The consensus I've seen/read for SIG P320 is 95+% charged when in battery, ready to fire.

 

[MarkCO]

I've never seen 90% for a Glock, but I've seen 70% charged for a Glock that is in battery, ready to fire.
I have never seen it officially declared by Glock.
Maybe it was "observed" in one of the "Cutaway Glocks" ?
In any event, you can feel you're doing more than tripping a sear when you press a Glock trigger.

The consensus I've seen/read for SIG P320 is 95+% charged when in battery, ready to fire.

Spring compression is not linear. 70% compressed by length is maybe 50% of max compressed force. 95% of length is pretty close to being at the linear end of the compressed force.

 

[MinervaDoe]

On the questions about the 320, here is a Glock Talk thread that posts a paywall article where according to the thread's OP, "they actually get into the firing mechanics at a fairly in depth level. "

Link to The thread:

Big article on P320 discharge controversy

Unlike most pieces, they actually get into the firing mechanics at a fairly in depth level. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/11/sig-sauer-p320-fires-on-own/

www.glocktalk.com

Link to the paywalled article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/11/sig-sauer-p320-fires-on-own/

 

[DirectDrive]

Spring compression is not linear. 70% compressed by length is maybe 50% of max compressed force. 95% of length is pretty close to being at the linear end of the compressed force.

I do get that.
My comment about the observation was a little "off the cuff"
I've just never seen anything official from Glock on the subject.

 

[peng]

When the Judge allows me to testify and the opposition withdraws their expert because my lab testing is undeniable...I'll quote myself.

I think this is the study I read from years ago. Link does not work now.

"Springfield commissioned a study by the prestigious independent consulting firm, Tioga Engineering of Wellsboro, Pa., to compare the systems of the Glock and XD. In both designs, the firing pin block or safety is the key element, but their test showed that a primed case fired 100 percent of the time in a Glock when the striker was released from the 62 percent normal preloaded level."

http://www.americancopmagazine.com/articles/xd/index.html

A Glock competitor commissioned the study, so big grain of salt there.

Primer material is critical here, maybe they found some soft ones.

 

[MarkCO]

Primer material is critical here, maybe they found some soft ones.

Broken link...

We had to skew the testing with XP striker springs and use Federal primers to even get a 5% ignition rate with Glocks.

 

[dla]

Prepping the trigger.

I've always wondered if the issue with some designs is that the user can "prep the trigger", causing the sear to slide down the firing pin interface and there is insufficient return spring force to return the sear fully. A dry interface would make this worse.
Just thinking out loud. I've a lot of experience with Glocks, some with M&P 2.0, and none with the Sig 320.

 

[HOLLADAY]

No Bueno

 

[J.R. Bob Dobbs]

Spring rate is absolutely linear, unless it is wound so that some coils bind while being deflected “dual rate spring”, then as implied it has two distinct linear rates.