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Discussion starter · #81 ·
An active shooter threat is different than clearing YOUR house by yourself. If you are alone there is NO reason to clear the house. You get secure, you call Police, you are armed, you wait for the threat to come to you. When Police do show up it is safer for everyone if there are no "innocents" wandering around inside the house. You tell them where you are located, and anything else moving around inside is considered a "threat". IMHO
I can think of one. You’re at your home and you have family members in other rooms. Bad guy enters home and you hear gunshots. Are you just going to stay locked in your bedroom dialing 911 when you have loved ones in other locations within the household?
 
Discussion starter · #82 ·
Not that I'd choose it, but I have a split floor plan. If there's ever a crash at night, obviously authorities will be called, but my two little boys are on the other end of the house. I'll have to take the risk, fraught with danger as it is.

Anyway, the thread's about M16A5 types.
Thanks and sorry this thing derailed arguing about bayonets.
 
Not that I'd choose it, but I have a split floor plan. If there's ever a crash at night, obviously authorities will be called, but my two little boys are on the other end of the house. I'll have to take the risk, fraught with danger as it is.

Anyway, the thread's about M16A5 types.
Yes, family complicates everything. You secure them first and foremost. You stay with them and follow through with your security plan.
 
I can think of one. You’re at your home and you have family members in other rooms. Bad guy enters home and you hear gunshots. Are you just going to stay locked in your bedroom dialing 911 when you have loved ones in other locations within the household?
Already answered another on this. Family complicates everything. You secure family first, stay with them, and follow through on the rest of the plan.
 
AK_Stick did you guys ever utilize the bayonet like us crayon eaters in Iraq? Or were we just looking for an excuse to turn our rifles into a spear?
I never did, but clearing houses was not my main gig, simply something we occasionally had to do to get to a downed aircraft/secure an area.


A lot of the time I was carrying a SAW
 
An active shooter threat is different than clearing YOUR house by yourself. If you are alone there is NO reason to clear the house. You get secure, you call Police, you are armed, you wait for the threat to come to you. When Police do show up it is safer for everyone if there are no "innocents" wandering around inside the house. You tell them where you are located, and anything else moving around inside is considered a "threat". IMHO
Tell me you live in a city without saying you live in a city.
 
Discussion starter · #88 ·
I never had an issue clearing a structure with a full size rifle although I’d prefer a 10.5 if that was my main gig. Short stocking works. Having an RMR on top of the ACOG also makes this concept much more valid than simply relying on point shooting. I never really felt like I was hindered all that much using a 20 inch rifle.

I still vastly prefer rifle length gassed 18/20 inch guns for general purpose weapons. There’s some magic with a 77 grain OTM coming out of a 20 inch pipe.
 
I never had an issue clearing a structure with a full size rifle although I’d prefer a 10.5 if that was my main gig. Short stocking works. Having an RMR on top of the ACOG also makes this concept much more valid than simply relying on point shooting. I never really felt like I was hindered all that much using a 20 inch rifle.

I still vastly prefer rifle length gassed 18/20 inch guns for general purpose weapons.
This I pretty much agree with. Rifles aren’t perfect for entry/CQB but they can still be very effective. I’m one of those who adheres to the philosophy of never slowing down a 5.56 or .223 unless there’s a compelling reason to do so. For a dedicated entry gun, or a patrol carbine that’s going in and out of vehicles regularly, there’s a compelling reason.

For a perimeter gun, DMR, or in my current status a GP AR type weapon, a 20” rifle makes more sense. The 14.5 or 16 inch guns are also very good GP weapons for most applications you’d want an AR for. Ultimately, mission should determine the gear.
 
I do not live in a city, if it matters. I live in a typical suburban setting, Sheriff response time can be anywhere from 15-30 mins depending on where they are in their patrol.
Bizarre to have such an incorrect notion when you understand the cops aren’t coming.
 
The above mentioned velocity statements, of not reducing the barrel lengths unless compelling reasons exist is perfect. The 10.5" for civvie use is kind of funny, or just 2nd cool factor. You're literally taking everything away the AR-15 is good at, when reducing barrel length.

This is also why, even though many dislike them, I love my 16" M4 carbine type. You're right above 3000 FPS with most ammo with a 16" gun, but you're still a bit more compact. If you like the bayonet option, mid length 16 inch guns are awesome, too.

I honestly believe the 16" barrel on the AR is the best general, "do it all reasonably well" setups out there.
 
The above mentioned velocity statements, of not reducing the barrel lengths unless compelling reasons exist is perfect. The 10.5" for civvie use is kind of funny, or just 2nd cool factor. You're literally taking everything away the AR-15 is good at, when reducing barrel length.

This is also why, even though many dislike them, I love my 16" M4 carbine type. You're right above 3000 FPS with most ammo with a 16" gun, but you're still a bit more compact. If you like the bayonet option, mid length 16 inch guns are awesome, too.

I honestly believe the 16" barrel on the AR is the best general, "do it all reasonably well" setups out there.

The only reason to go to a 10.5 is if you're running it supressed, you're reducing the OAL so that you can run the supressor without ending up with a 20 inch musket during MOUT operations.


I do disagree with the 16 inch barrel statement though. It really is the length we have because of arbitrary rules. 18 inches and 12.5 are pretty much the ideal lengths for 5.56 for most uses. If you're hunting/using the gun for overwatch/ DMR roles, the 18 inch barrel is perfect. You get enough velocity to use the 5.56 out as far as its realistically useful at any extended range (100-600 ish meters) and with an adjustable stock, you can still use it in closer if you need to. (Hence the MK12's adoration).

For a self defense/all around gun for in closer, the 12.5 gets you plenty of velocity for self defense, while still letting you hang a can on it, and be maneuverable. Especially if you run an OTB can like an Allen/Ops/Otter Creek Labs reflex can, you can get an extra inch or two of barrel, and have the same OAL as a 11.5 or 10.5 gun with a more popular end mount silencer. Giving you more velocity, and ironically a quieter gun. While also increasing the dwell time (which really isn't a issue with guns with cans but it makes it easier to tune)
 
True but if ever anticipate having to clear your own house in hypothetical scenario, having a sharp pointy thing on the end of your rifle is an advantage in a CQB scenario. Guy tried to grab your rifle and gets stuck by an M9 bayonet instead .
Nothing says leave me alone like shoving 7" of cold steel through someone's sternum.
 
The only reason to go to a 10.5 is if you're running it supressed, you're reducing the OAL so that you can run the supressor without ending up with a 20 inch musket during MOUT operations.


I do disagree with the 16 inch barrel statement though. It really is the length we have because of arbitrary rules. 18 inches and 12.5 are pretty much the ideal lengths for 5.56 for most uses. If you're hunting/using the gun for overwatch/ DMR roles, the 18 inch barrel is perfect. You get enough velocity to use the 5.56 out as far as its realistically useful at any extended range (100-600 ish meters) and with an adjustable stock, you can still use it in closer if you need to. (Hence the MK12's adoration).

For a self defense/all around gun for in closer, the 12.5 gets you plenty of velocity for self defense, while still letting you hang a can on it, and be maneuverable. Especially if you run an OTB can like an Allen/Ops/Otter Creek Labs reflex can, you can get an extra inch or two of barrel, and have the same OAL as a 11.5 or 10.5 gun with a more popular end mount silencer. Giving you more velocity, and ironically a quieter gun. While also increasing the dwell time (which really isn't a issue with guns with cans but it makes it easier to tune)
I understand the arbitrary side of it, but what I meant was just the perfect do everything gun. If a 16" gun is all you have, it can still literally do everything pretty well. It can reach out reasonably far, and still handle close quarters stuff well enough.

Getting into 10.5-12.5" for civvie use with suppressor options is all NFA territory, so I don't really consider it much; not really practical or possible for the everyday gun owner. I don't agree with it, but it is what it is.

However, for military stuff and operations, where you can have whatever you want? Of course the 10.5" suppressed wins for CQB stuff, and the DMR rifles can be whatever barrel length they want. :)

ETA: If you told me I could only own one AR, it'd be my 16" M4. If you told me I could own only one AR without concern for NFA BS, I'd own a nice Mk 18 Mod 0 build with a can on it.
 
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