[Maciosaig]

I just finished off hand shooting at the range with the G45 with Ameriglo sights using "premium" self defense ammunition and the results were a little surprising. All targets were at 15 yards using B27S targets two sets of targets firing 5 rounds each for a total of 10 rounds on 2 targets. I wanted to test all the potential ammunition for EDC/self defense scenarios as the G45 may replace my 686+ occasionally so here's the results:
The worst groups came from the Federal HST 124gr +P at a 5 7/8 and 5 1/2" spread to center mass and they shot to the left.
Federal HST 147gr std pressure shot 5 1/4 and 5 1/2 and shot low and left
Remington Golden Saber 124+P 3 3/4 both times shooting to the center slightly low
Underwood/Nosler 115gr +p 3 1/4 and 3 1/2 all center mass in the inner and outer x-ring with 1 flyer in each group
Remington UMC 115gr JHP std. pressure 3 1/4 both times all dead on in the inner and outer x ring to the left
Winchester Silvertip 115gr JHP std. press. Both times coming in at 3" and perfectly stacked vertically in the right outer o-ring
Hornady Critical Duty 135gr +p 2 1/2" spread shooting a little left mostly in the outer "x ring"
Cor-Bon 115gr +p JHP came in at 2 1/4 and 2 1/2 shooting dead center all in the o-ring and the only ammo to hit the x twice.
My surprise was the HSTs especially the 124gr +p which we have more of than anything else, the wife uses it in her off duty G43x and on duty G19 G2 and the G43X loves the 124gr +P HST and the 19 loves the Critical Duty 135gr +p, and it's expansion and gel testing shows it to be the best or one of the best. The 3 brands of ammo I didn't have and had to wait for were the Remington 115gr jhp, Winchester silvertip 115gr jhp and the Cor-Bob 115gr +p jhp which I didn't want to use because I thought it was just old tech and far behind the HSTs and other more modern loadings as well as being suggested by an old and retired PO I know who said it's still great stuff. This is only my test from the G45 and nothing is implied as scientific or set in stone however I have read too many posts on forums, websites and in some YouTube videos recommending a particular brand or type of ammo without suggesting, 90-95% of the time, trying each particular ammo out of your own firearm.
Also I tested these ammo brands on a closed and very hot indoor range with floor until A/Cs that kept the temps around 80ish and as I usually do I dress as I would daily carrying in an open button down, t-shirt, Jean's and I pounded 4 shots of strong espresso to add some "energy"....again nothing scientific however this is my daily dress and routine. I EDC a 686+ and only use Remington umc 125gr SJHP 357mag and shoot that better than anything else I own or have owned so I felt no difference in any of the 9mm recoil from round to round, I'm also not recoil sensitive, however my surprise was the 9mm felt like shooting 22s and was extremely soft shooting and easy to control!
Anyway I just wanted to provide my own results in a normal every day situation and I hope more people test their ammo in their own firearm(s) that they intend to carry daily.

 

[Bren]

That's not a very good test. Your results are just a test of your shooting ability and have nothing to do with the ammo. Even for standing, unsupported, those groups aren't very good if you were trying for precision. There's probably no commercial ammo made that would shoot groups that bad at 15 yards from a good rest.

This is my Glock .45 at 25 yards using some military M1182 ball ammo that sucks, shooting 2-handed with one arm against a support post for stability. That's probably 2 inches or so.

 

[Maciosaig]

Who said I was shooting for precision? Where did I imply that ? If you don't like the reality of my very unscientific, uncontrolled "test" than maybe you should stay with the unrealistic gelatin block tests that as of today have never once represented reality on the streets in real world shootings. I also indicated that this isn't my EDC, my 686 plus is, and I was point shooting, rapid fire, drawing from my holster which I did, mistakenly leave out. It must be something with anyone associated with the anti-2A fudds with the Not Relevant Anymore association. I'm sure you've been in actual gun battles and can enlighten me with your vast knowledge? I've taken advice from both people, mostly police officers, I personally know and have casually gotten to know who have been in PO involved shootings. I think you're hurt by your favorite brand not doing so well in a real world situation. What's really hilarious is no one I know of used a bench rest in a self defense shoot? Maybe I need to get out more!🤣

 

[Z71bill]

Does your gun have the New York trigger?

My view -

If I was shooting at 15 yards to try and compare how tight a group I could get with different ammo I would be shooting for precision.

15 yards is about 20 steps for me - at that range if I was not taking careful aim I would be all over the target.

At 5 yards I can do pretty well point and shoot - at 15 yards no so much.

I see little to no value in testing ammo like this - other that it would be fun!

 

[Bren]

Who said I was shooting for precision? Where did I imply that ?

You implied that in the part where you said you were testing ammo and then measured the groups. Why would you call it a test of the ammo and measure the groups, unless you were trying to see how well the ammo grouped?

I also indicated that this isn't my EDC, my 686 plus is, and I was point shooting, rapid fire, drawing from my holster which I did, mistakenly leave out. It must be something with anyone associated with the anti-2A fudds with the Not Relevant Anymore association. I'm sure you've been in actual gun battles and can enlighten me with your vast knowledge? I've taken advice from both people, mostly police officers, I personally know and have casually gotten to know who have been in PO involved shootings. I think you're hurt by your favorite brand not doing so well in a real world situation. What's really hilarious is no one I know of used a bench rest in a self defense shoot? Maybe I need to get out more!🤣

None of that makes any sense - sounds like you are trying to make excuses. If you aren't trying to shoot groups, why would you try different types of ammunition? I don't care about any of these brands, but based on 35 years of pistol shooting as a police officer, police firearms instructor, competitive shooter (including military service pistol team competition), etc., it looks to me like you don't know what you are doing, in terms of either shooting or testing ammo.

Aside from that, your avatar is a New York City Housing Authority Police Department patch, but you're apparently not a police officer????

It's OK, I'm not really a werewolf.

 

[Maciosaig]

Does your gun have the New York trigger?

My view -

If I was shooting at 15 yards to try and compare how tight a group I could get with different ammo I would be shooting for precision.

15 yards is about 20 steps for me - at that range if I was not taking careful aim I would be all over the target.

At 5 yards I can do pretty well point and shoot - at 15 yards no so much.

I see little to no value in testing ammo like this - other that it would be fun!

No it does not have the NY 14lb trigger, it's a brand new G45.
I was just trying to see where each potential ammunition would hit in a self defense situation under,very little, stress and rapidly firing. It's a preliminary evaluation of all that ammo I acquired for potential carry duty.

 

[Maciosaig]

You implied that in the part where you said you were testing ammo and then measured the groups. Why would you call it a test of the ammo and measure the groups, unless you were trying to see how well the ammo grouped?



None of that makes any sense - sounds like you are trying to make excuses. If you aren't trying to shoot groups, why would you try different types of ammunition? I don't care about any of these brands, but based on 35 years of pistol shooting as a police officer, police firearms instructor, competitive shooter (including military service pistol team competition), etc., it looks to me like you don't know what you are doing, in terms of either shooting or testing ammo.

Aside from that, your avatar is a New York City Housing Authority Police Department patch, but you're apparently not a police officer????

It's OK, I'm not really a werewolf.

Well good than you are very aware that police, especially in NYC, have about an 18% hit ratio, being very generous, so yeah it's no surprise you're retired? PO and NRA both of which have about the worst anti- 2A positions and as far as cops go...the worst hit to shots fired ratio. Of course I am a former cop with the NYC Housing Authority Police, PSA-1/1A, NYPD after the merger SITF and 122. Do you want my tax ID number ? Maybe you need a resume? Pictures, references? I'm sure you experienced about 1/1000th of what we did in the NYC housing project's in your 35 years....we aren't the same.

 

[Rich_J]

I agree with @Bren . I think your group to group variation is better explained with a fairly low round count with a new gun. Especially a Glock, which is hard to control low and away (in your case, I assume you are right handed).

I'm not a particularly good shooter, and I have to work on my grip, especially support hand grip, all the time. If I'm not shooting from a rest, I like "The Test" (by Ken Hackathorn?) which is 10 rounds at 10 yards in 10 seconds, at the low ready. I shoot it cold, as a metric of where I am at that day. With my game gun, a Glock 34 with Holosun 507c, I'm typically above 90, sometimes 95. For instance, here's a 99-0X with range ammo, American Eagle 115.

What I do find worthwhile, in terms of useful information, is to know where your carry ammo patterns, in your carry gun. Mine (either Federal 147 HST or Speer Gold Dot 124+p) tends to shoot a little high or a little low. With that, I bring a padded .30 ammo can and rest my elbows on that, then try and perform perfect trigger presses, using a centering target I made. I shoot 5 round groups. This helps to make sure it runs ok in my carry gun(s) as well as zeroing either the sights (when I shot irons) or dots (now that I shoot dots.)

 

[Maciosaig]

I agree with @Bren . I think your group to group variation is better explained with a fairly low round count with a new gun. Especially a Glock, which is hard to control low and away (in your case, I assume you are right handed).

I'm not a particularly good shooter, and I have to work on my grip, especially support hand grip, all the time. If I'm not shooting from a rest, I like "The Test" (by Ken Hackathorn?) which is 10 rounds at 10 yards in 10 seconds, at the low ready. I shoot it cold, as a metric of where I am at that day. With my game gun, a Glock 34 with Holosun 507c, I'm typically above 90, sometimes 95. For instance, here's a 99-0X with range ammo, American Eagle 115.

View attachment 1069912

What I do find worthwhile, in terms of useful information, is to know where your carry ammo patterns, in your carry gun. Mine (either Federal 147 HST or Speer Gold Dot 124+p) tends to shoot a little high or a little low. With that, I bring a padded .30 ammo can and rest my elbows on that, then try and perform perfect trigger presses, using a centering target I made. I shoot 5 round groups. This helps to make sure it runs ok in my carry gun(s) as well as zeroing either the sights (when I shot irons) or dots (now that I shoot dots.)

I am right handed and the G45 is brand new , I'm not a new shooter however this is the first semi-auto I've used in a few years. I EDC a 4" 686+ and drill pretty much the same way double action only and I never use a rest or lean on the wall for support or anything like that because I'm trying, as best as I can, recreate a possible situation where I will potentially be out in public in a situation I hope never happens. So it's definitely not a controlled, sanitized situation which I do purposely. No two situations will ever be the same and they are impossible to predict. I usually use 6" paper plates or same size shoot-n-see targets to shoot instead of the range targets but I figured I do something different.

 

[Rich_J]

I am right handed and the G45 is brand new , I'm not a new shooter however this is the first semi-auto I've used in a few years. I EDC a 4" 686+ and drill pretty much the same way double action only and I never use a rest or lean on the wall for support or anything like that because I'm trying, as best as I can, recreate a possible situation where I will potentially be out in public in a situation I hope never happens. So it's definitely not a controlled, sanitized situation which I do purposely. No two situations will ever be the same and they are impossible to predict. I usually use 6" paper plates or same size shoot-n-see targets to shoot instead of the range targets but I figured I do something different.

Makes sense. I'm a lefty, and am always fighting a tendency to group low and right. Especially in matches, where my IQ drops 50 points everytime the beep goes off.

If I may: with a semi, especially a Glock, I've found it useful to reinforce the old adage about "keeping the slide in line with your forearm". It'd be worth checking your stance and as you present from low ready out to the firing position, pull the gun back in, and examine your forearm and slide to make sure it's lined up. The difference can be very small but will have a big impact on groups.

Secondly, I find I have to constantly focus on good, solid, support hand grip. Like, you are trying to pull yourself up on a bar support hand grip. This will show up more in semi-rapid fire. Doubles can help to diagnose this, or like I said above, 1s or there around round counts of 5-10.

Another aspect some shooters have with a semi, especially a Glock, is pre-ignition push. In this case, a good drill is to load one, then remove the mag and insert an empty. Shooting one round, then getting a sight picture and doing one excellent dry press, may help surface this so you can work on it. It may take several repetitions, but eventually the Devil will come out.

As say, maybe none of this applies to you, so feel free to ignore. No problem if so, maybe it will help someone else.

Welcome to Glock talk. Good luck with the G45, it should serve you well. And thanks for your service.

 

[Rich_J]

@Maciosaig I made an alignment target for you, in case you want to try this exercise again.

I do this a lot, using a drawing tool I just print out a few before going to the range. I assume you are a top of front sight shooter. In this case, the target is based on an NRA B-8, and the circle dimensions can help you estimate your groups.

Since you mentioned testing SD ammo, I set it up for 7 yards (since 21 feet is a common range in shootings) in the comment box but obviously you can shoot it at any range, like a normal B-8 repair center.

Shooting off a rest, my expectation would be every ammo type you tested would be within the X ring (1.7") at 7 yards.

 

[Maciosaig]

@Maciosaig I made an alignment target for you, in case you want to try this exercise again.

I do this a lot, using a drawing tool I just print out a few before going to the range. I assume you are a top of front sight shooter. In this case, the target is based on an NRA B-8, and the circle dimensions can help you estimate your groups.

Since you mentioned testing SD ammo, I set it up for 7 yards (since 21 feet is a common range in shootings) in the comment box but obviously you can shoot it at any range, like a normal B-8 repair center.

Shooting off a rest, my expectation would be every ammo type you tested would be within the X ring (1.7") at 7 yards.

Thank you!
I won't carry this until I'm 100% confident.

 

[cowboy1964]

Personally I wouldn't be trying to judge ammo accuracy of a Glock (or any gun really) right out of the box unless you were using a rest, especially if you have not shot Glocks a lot. Shooter error is going to totally negate the results. In fact, not using a rest at all is probably just a waste of time if the goal is just to test accuracy as, uh, accurately as possible.

I'm curious in what order you shot the ammo. I assume the list you posted was from worst to best.

 

[0.0-idontrun]

I respect the desire to test the ammo brands but, a scientist wants to reduce the number of variables to the fewest number possible to get accurate data.
If you are testing the ammo (as opposed to your skills or the accuracy of the firearm) then you should be shooting slow pinpoint aim from a rest.

 

[harold63]

I haven't seen that much deviation with different ammos.

 

[Glock Commander]

I just finished ...

I am sorry I could not finish reading it all.

The Department I retired from approves 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP for carry. In 9mm you can choose the Winchester Ranger 127 JHP +P+ or the Ranger 147 JHP. I carry the 147 JHP in my Glock 17, Glock 19 and Glock 26.

 

[GRR]

I just finished off hand shooting at the range with the G45 with Ameriglo sights using "premium" self defense ammunition and the results were a little surprising. All targets were at 15 yards using B27S targets two sets of targets firing 5 rounds each for a total of 10 rounds on 2 targets. I wanted to test all the potential ammunition for EDC/self defense scenarios as the G45 may replace my 686+ occasionally so here's the results:
The worst groups came from the Federal HST 124gr +P at a 5 7/8 and 5 1/2" spread to center mass and they shot to the left.
Federal HST 147gr std pressure shot 5 1/4 and 5 1/2 and shot low and left
Remington Golden Saber 124+P 3 3/4 both times shooting to the center slightly low
Underwood/Nosler 115gr +p 3 1/4 and 3 1/2 all center mass in the inner and outer x-ring with 1 flyer in each group
Remington UMC 115gr JHP std. pressure 3 1/4 both times all dead on in the inner and outer x ring to the left
Winchester Silvertip 115gr JHP std. press. Both times coming in at 3" and perfectly stacked vertically in the right outer o-ring
Hornady Critical Duty 135gr +p 2 1/2" spread shooting a little left mostly in the outer "x ring"
Cor-Bon 115gr +p JHP came in at 2 1/4 and 2 1/2 shooting dead center all in the o-ring and the only ammo to hit the x twice.
My surprise was the HSTs especially the 124gr +p which we have more of than anything else, the wife uses it in her off duty G43x and on duty G19 G2 and the G43X loves the 124gr +P HST and the 19 loves the Critical Duty 135gr +p, and it's expansion and gel testing shows it to be the best or one of the best. The 3 brands of ammo I didn't have and had to wait for were the Remington 115gr jhp, Winchester silvertip 115gr jhp and the Cor-Bob 115gr +p jhp which I didn't want to use because I thought it was just old tech and far behind the HSTs and other more modern loadings as well as being suggested by an old and retired PO I know who said it's still great stuff. This is only my test from the G45 and nothing is implied as scientific or set in stone however I have read too many posts on forums, websites and in some YouTube videos recommending a particular brand or type of ammo without suggesting, 90-95% of the time, trying each particular ammo out of your own firearm.
Also I tested these ammo brands on a closed and very hot indoor range with floor until A/Cs that kept the temps around 80ish and as I usually do I dress as I would daily carrying in an open button down, t-shirt, Jean's and I pounded 4 shots of strong espresso to add some "energy"....again nothing scientific however this is my daily dress and routine. I EDC a 686+ and only use Remington umc 125gr SJHP 357mag and shoot that better than anything else I own or have owned so I felt no difference in any of the 9mm recoil from round to round, I'm also not recoil sensitive, however my surprise was the 9mm felt like shooting 22s and was extremely soft shooting and easy to control!
Anyway I just wanted to provide my own results in a normal every day situation and I hope more people test their ammo in their own firearm(s) that they intend to carry daily.

Seems like a waste of good ammunition.

 

[0.0-idontrun]

Seems like a waste of good ammunition.

Hopefully he had some smiles after pulling the trigger and that isn't a bad return on his money.
If nothing else he had something to talk about on GT and got some attention.

 

[BamaTrooper]

OP-
Was your intent to test the function of your pistol with those rounds? Did you have any feed or extraction issues? Any failures of any sort? If not then it sounds like they are all serviceable in your gun.
Which one is most accurate? More testing needed.
Which one performs better in target? Hard to say but somewhere, somehow, someone has performed testing with them from a similar gun to determine barrier penetration, size increase in target, and depth of penetration. Whether you trust those tests or find one that meets your criteria is based solely on you.
A 5” group, CENTERED ON YOUR POINT OF AIM, if your point of aim was center of bad guy, should suffice. Only you know your skills and limitations so practice as you think necessary.

 

[borisglockunov]

A test like this will usually wind up with a completely different result each time you do it.