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Deaf Smith

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Anyone ever used one? Are they good?

$375 bucks... looks like a Glock ripoff.

Thing is, another pawnshop has mags... $10 each.

Just wondering.
 
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Anyone ever used one? Are they good?

$375 bucks... looks like a Glock ripoff.

Thing is, another pawnshop has mags... $10 each.

Just wondering.
I've never shot one, but sold and handled dozens upon dozens. Very entry level SF pistol - ie Ruger Security 9, Taurus G3. Descendant of the SW SIgma.

A bit bulky in the grip for my taste. A lot of people like to put Apex triggers in them. They were $300 new, a year ago. $10 a mag is great.
 
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I bought the 40 version last week. I'd shot 4-5 of them over the years and really like them. They are G19/23 size with slightly more capacity, a far better grip/angle and a trigger your finger falls on naturally and w/o rubbing the trigger guard or abrading your middle finger. People pooh-pooh because of the trigger but if you can shoot a revolver DA, you can shoot an SD.

Mine shoots a bit high so I sat down at 50 yards and fired three rounds of Speer 180 grain Lawman, resting over one knee. They are tucked into just over 3 inches about six inches above the dot. I have a set of M&P night sights coming next week and will correct the elevation from there.

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Merging of the original Sigma and the SD lines, offered as the budget plastic line (compared against the M&P).

It's been years since I took the original Sigma armorer class. When I once asked about an armorer class for the newer SD line (asking the guy who actually wrote the manuals and created the classes, BTW), I was told they had no plans to offer a class because the SD was never intended to be marketed to LE, so no reason to put together an armorer class for it. So, I've never had reason to look under the hood of one.

MSRP for the SD VE is factory listed at $389, so $375 doesn't seem like much of a deal (unless guns are still scarce in your area).

The SD VE guns have a (deliberately) heavier trigger than the M&P's, listed at 8lbs +/-. Dunno what the "+/-" means in the SD VE guns, but when the M&P's were first released the "+/-" meant there was an allowable +/- of 2lbs either direction (think tolerance stack).

 
At the 2010 or 2011 (???) SHOT show, when these SD9 were first introduced, I spoke to a S&W rep who told me that the SD9 line was marketed for potential new pistol owners who viewed the M&P line as too "professional" or too much gun for them. So basically, they were marketed to people who wanted a talisman for home protection that was going to sit in a night table for the next 50 years.

The SD9 is derived from the SIGMA, which was a copy of the Glock, or at least a close enough copy of the Glock that Glock won their patent infringement suit against S&W. Everything I've read was that the SIGMA/SD9 are reliable but had heavy/gritty triggers out of the box. The good news is that with usage, the trigger will smooth out.
 
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As an aside, I remember that when the SD9 was introduced to replace the SIGMA, I was really, really, really praying that S&W would sell off their SIGMAs at fire sale prices. My hope was to purchase 3 or 4 SIGMAs.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Well.... I might grab the $10 buck mags (talk them down to $7... hahaha) and if the gun does not sell, in a few months buy it as a home defense gun to be kept in an undisclosed location (my Glock 48 serves that purpose now.)
 
Have an SD40VE. It is a Glock 23 knockoff.

Like it except the trigger is a very heavy, long pull, more like a revolver.
Never measured it, but I suspect the pull is closer to 10 lbs than 8.
Neither the break nor the reset are crisp and the pull after the wall is longer than the pull to the break wall.

If you like shooting revolvers, it's a great buy at $300 or less.
Got mine for $270 but that was Dec 2017.
 
As an aside, I remember that when the SD9 was introduced to replace the SIGMA, I was really, really, really praying that S&W would sell off their SIGMAs at fire sale prices. My hope was to purchase 3 or 4 SIGMAs.
The last revision of the Sigma benefited from some attention given it in-house. One of the guys at the factory who was on the team that did the revision told me about it. He said they'd lightened the trigger by close to a pound, and made the reliability as much as anyone could ask for in real world conditions. That was back when you could see a Sigma advertised on sale for $259-$279, which made it a real sleeper bargain for a tough and reliable self defense pistol (if you didn't mind a trigger about as stiff as the Glock "+" connector. ;) )

A bit of trivia I remember from my Sigma armorer class ....

For their first foray into a plastic pistol, S&W wanted to design a plastic grip frame around a steel magazine, but they wanted it to be slimmer and address some of the grip angle/girth complaints heard among some Glock customers. The story was they invested some significant money into gathering market study groups and listening to average folks from the commercial gun buying market, and that was how they came up with the Sigma (and later SD) grip angle and configuration. It was info from focus groups driven by potential customers, not by the people inside the company.

Yes, they had to change the gun enough not to infringe on the Glock patent, which basically meant they changed the trigger coil spring and moved it to the front of the trigger bar. That put it closer to the source of the recoil force, so they devised the dense fiber spring insert to dampen the shock and recoil force harmonics that might weaken a spring. We were told that if for some reason a Sigma might become submerged in water, and the fiber absorbed so much water that it shifted and slipped outside the trigger spring, we could tightly roll a cigarette filter and use it as a field expedient spring insert until the gun could get a new spring/insert.

When I asked how important the fiber insert was to mitigate accelerated wear to the spring, I was told that without the dense fiber insert a spring might suffer breakage when it reached about 3,000 rounds fired. Well, I'd think someone would have a gun back at the bench before that many rounds were able to be fired in any incident. (Unless the gun was being used overseas, etc.)

When I started attending the M&P pistols armorer classes, I noticed that the engineers had made a subtle revision to the end coils of the trigger spring to help prevent the fiber inserts from slipping out. The springs are sent to armorers with the fiber inserts already installed. The recommended replacement interval for the M&P trigger spring is every 5,000 rounds. FWIW, that's the same recommended replacement interval for the Glock trigger-coil spring when I was sent a Wearable Parts Replacement Schedule for LE .40's several years ago (before the Gen5 revision).
 
I had the .40 version. After a few dry firing sessions, the striker broke. It is very reliable, just don't dry fire without quality snap caps.
I don't recommend anyone do "dry-fire sessions" with striker-fired pistols unless a good quality snap cap were going to be used. Not a problem for occasional use, like during bench inspection checks, or disassembling - field stripping a Glock (or similar major maker "pull-trigger-to-disassemble" designs).

I thought it was interesting that the last M&P armorer manual I received listed the replacement interval for the striker assembly as 20,000rds ... or after 30,000 cycles of dry-fire. Then again, when the new MIM striker started being slip-streamed into production (around the end of 2010? I forget), the heavier and more robust MIM striker eliminated the recessed machined groove around the rear of the head of the striker FP. They thinned it on the side "flats" enough to accept the new 1-piece, heavier spring keeper, but it was a lot more robust.

A couple pics of an original M&P 45 striker (black), next to the revised striker (stainless).


This pic has an arrow that shows the original machined groove around the back of the striker head.


This pic shows how the older machined striker FP has a sharp corner at the "foot" lug of the striker (black), versus the more rounded angle of the revised striker (stainless). This change eliminated a potential stress riser at the previous sharp corner angle.
 
I've had five, but two were in .40 caliber. The gripe people have with them is about stout trigger pulls. My hands are huge and very strong, so the trigger pull is not a problem for me. For other folks, I'd suggest practicing.

The pistols are inexpensive, very robust, the magazines are stainless and very strong. The guns are extremely reliable, too. I dry fired the pistols countless times and with NO negative results.

Unfortunately, many forum writers bash these pistols and most have never owned, fired, or even held one. My experience with them is direct and hands on.

Heck yes, I recommend them!

Flash
 
I have one and like it fine. It's bare bones, but feels better in hand then a comparable Glock, IMO, even though it's less refined. (Which probably isn't saying much).

If someone is trigger sensitive, it may not be the best choice.

Also of note Is that it has an easy to rack slide, which had made it my wife's house gun. She couldn't rack a Shield, and struggled with a 4513 and several Glocks, but loved the easy to rack SD9VE slide.
 
Excellent posts, Fastbolt.
 
Unfortunately, many forum writers bash these pistols and most have never owned, fired, or even held one.
That happens quite a bit. That's why it's important to weed out those folks from the one's with actual experience.
 
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I have both the SD9 & 40, both are great guns the trigger pull never seemed to bother me.
I think at a pawn shop $375 is high & @ $10/mag buy all they have.
Yes it is a spin off of a Glock but for half the price there is not a bad reason to own it.
Out of the box when i 1rst fired mine i had better outcome over Glock (grip angle), i also remember the good ol' days seeing these on the shelf $249 or less.
If you choose to beat them up on the price & bring it home you won't be disappointed, like has been said before the bashers will always chime in.
 
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