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What Ammo Does The Special Forces,Secret Services Use In Their 9MM?

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#62 · (Edited)
fastbolt said:
Considering all of the engineering and scientifically controlled testing that's been occurring in ammunition development in the last 30-odd years, I'm fine with leaving the grunt work to the folks who have the budgets and the reasons to have to do it.

I'm long past the days of thinking backwoods "bullet testing" is going to reveal something that's not already been demonstrated, understood and applied to the ongoing refinement of defensive ammunition, especially in low-powered handguns below the usual Magnum hunting calibers.

Over the years of having served as a firearms instructor and a working cop, I've learned to place a lot more attention, emphasis and confidence in developing my abilities, and the normal maintenance and use of my weapons ... than in whatever the newest shiny bullet/load combo to be shilled by some ammo company or retail ammo vendor.

It's a bullet. Hopefully a hollowpoint bullet that won't clog and might even expand, or at least significantly deform.

Nothing about the design or glitzy packaging is going to help someone accurately put it where it may desperately need to go.

BTW, like walkinguf61, I also try to give attention to thinking about the possibility of misses and what may be 'downrange'. I've found myself coming across an occasional situation that produces a hit on my radar, where I'm assessing some possible risk of a high threat, and was also thinking about whether I might need to kneel or shift position to put something solid behind the path of a round I might have to fire.

Many years ago when I learned of an innocent woman who caught a round fired by a cop, which killed her, and that she was quite a ways from where the cop had fired the shot in a totally separate incident, it made an impression on me.

Remember this tragic one from some years ago? Try to know or be aware of what's behind your intended target ...

https://www.foxnews.com/story/oklahoma-police-kill-5-year-old-boy-while-shooting-at-snake

It's this concern that eventually prompted me to stop carrying one of my .44MAG's off-duty many years ago. I was spending much more time in highly urban areas than off the sidewalk in the more rural areas on my time off. Once I'd already downgraded the 'power' of the loads I was carrying (from 240gr to 108gr to 210 gr to finally Specials), I decided I might as well just carry smaller and lighter medium-bore calibers (.357MAG) or low-power big bore .45ACP +P and standard pressure.
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It is precisely for these kinds of posts I subscribe to to access the knowledge of people like you who actually have "seen the elephant, and heard the owl". I also have binders full of Massed Ayoob's articles from decades ago till now, one of Evan Marshall's books, plus all the actual shootings information from they and others like you I can lay eye to good Mr. Bolt.

A tip of my Confederate infantryman's kepi, and a long Rebel Yell to you for your kind informative posts.

With profound respect.

Gray_Rider
Old Secessh

P.S.
I also have bullet tests going back to the early eighties by the notebookfull. Ball, HP, LSWC. Lead, jacketed, frangible, in almost every caliber, heavy grain, light grain, penetration, jellywork, cadavers, real life.

Being something of a history nut, I believe that history confirms certain things beyond ANY test or human reasoning. Furthermore, it teaches the same lessons (within reason), decade in and decade out for centuries on end.

We ignore those expensive hard learned lessons at our and other's peril.
 
#63 ·
Gray_Rider said:
It is precisely for these kinds of posts I subscribe to to access the knowledge of people like you who actually have "seen the elephant, and heard the owl". I also have binders full of Massed Ayoob's articles from decades ago till now, one of Evan Marshall's books, plus all the actual shootings information from they and others like you I can lay eye to good Mr. Bolt.

A tip of my Confederate infantryman's kepi, and a long Rebel Yell to you for your kind informative posts.

With profound respect.

Gray_Rider
Old Secessh

P.S.
I also have bullet tests going back to the early eighties by the notebookfull. Ball, HP, LSWC. Lead, jacketed, frangible, in almost every caliber, heavy grain, light grain, penetration, jellywork, cadavers, real life.

Being something of a history nut, I believe that history confirms certain things beyond ANY test or human reasoning. Furthermore, it teaches the same lessons (within reason), decade in and decade out for centuries on end.

We ignore those expensive hard learned lessons at our and other's peril.
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De nada. A return tip of the brim of my slouch hat or fedora (depending on the season ;) ).

We all ignore the lessons of hard fought and won history, even if it was the fights of others, at our peril.

Many a time I've tried to tell some questioning shooter wanting to put more emphasis on bullet or caliber, than personal ability and willingness to dig in to prevail ... it's just a bullet.
 
#66 ·
A retired Delta guy told me his preferred handgun was the G22. He started with a 1911, but switched to the G22. He said it offered the most while giving up the least.
 
#70 ·
I had heard that they were using the HK MP7 in 4.6x30mm AP but I surmise you are asking about their handgun ammo.

Has anyone ever heard about the guys in the black Suburbans?

We had a Federal level VIP come to our city that required a presidential level SS detail and we were quietly warned about the guys in the black Suburbans. It was suggested that if these guys had to deploy it was very bad and that we would be better to get as close to the earth as we could because they would pretty much lay waste to the local vicinity.

I don't know if this is urban legend and maybe it was the secret service guys way of pulling our chain.
 
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#71 ·
Nutty Professor 188 said:
I had heard that they were using the HK MP7 in 4.6x30mm AP but I surmise you are asking about their handgun ammo.

Has anyone ever heard about the guys in the black Suburbans?

We had a Federal level VIP come to our city that required a presidential level SS detail and we were quietly warned about the guys in the black Suburbans. It was suggested that if these guys had to deploy it was very bad and that we would be better to get as close to the earth as we could because they would pretty much lay waste to the local vicinity.

I don't know if this is urban legend and maybe it was the secret service guys way of pulling our chain.
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It’s no secret.

The secret service has a response team of the special weapons and tactics type. They are a counter attack team if the “protectee” is under attack and they will use overwhelmingly force. And the warning is given to uniform and plainclothes local cops that they are ready for the bad guys to be disguised as cops. They will not assume we are on their side unless they “know “ you. So if they pop out be careful that your actions are not misinterpreted. They will only pop out if they think it has hit the fan.
 
#73 ·
It is my understanding that at least part of the President’s secret service carry 5.7x28 in full auto fn p90s

In the United States, the P90 is in use with over 200 law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Secret Service.
 
#75 ·
walkinguf61 said:
It’s no secret.

The secret service has a response team of the special weapons and tactics type. They are a counter attack team if the “protectee” is under attack and they will use overwhelmingly force. And the warning is given to uniform and plainclothes local cops that they are ready for the bad guys to be disguised as cops. They will not assume we are on their side unless they “know “ you. So if they pop out be careful that your actions are not misinterpreted. They will only pop out if they think it has hit the fan.
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The CAT team is no joke....
 
#78 ·
Will Beararms said:
Surely the Military can carry 9mm JHP ammo now right?
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As long as we are not in a war with a Hague signature country, then yeah, they can carry Hollow points now it seems. For the past 20 years we have been shooting terrorist, not Russians, so yeah, they are not recognized troops and they lack protections as such.

i heard the special purpose round was basically the Winchester 147 Ranger T, good stuff.
 
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