[dj45]

I've seen a lot of posts and pics of some very severe striker drag. I could post pics of some of the examples I gathered up from the 350 test rounds I fired through my P365. They look just like the pic crockett posted, or worse.

What I haven't seen posted anywhere, is how to go about fixing it. It seems to me that the root cause of the excessive striker drag isn't necessarily the striker, that's just how how the problem presents itself. The root cause, as far as I can tell, is likely a much deeper, and more difficult problem to resolve.

It might involve adjusting the timing of how the gun operates to allow more time for the striker to disengage from the primer, or make it so the striker disengages a bit faster from impacting the primer, so the extraction of the brass doesn't cause the drag.

How you go about doing that, without screwing up something else in the firing process of the gun? No idea. But I want to know, so I can send my gun out, get it fixed and get my carry gun back.

 

[newglocker10mm]

Normally I would defend SIG, but I have to side with you guys on this one. The 365 has too many problems arising for me to trust it.

 

[fastbolt]

Yeah, I've listened to armorer instructors and techs for a handful of gun companies discuss issues that have arisen regarding FP & FP Safety block interference issues over the years, especially in new designs. Some have involved revisions and replacement of parts exhibiting significant wear and preening, and a couple have involved "dressing" peened burrs (and periodically checking for such signs).

I've also listened to my fair share of being aware of barrel and slide machining issues with new models, or significantly revised existing lines.

Some gun companies seem more willing to freely discuss and explain about occasional scars, marks and tattoos than other gun companies. I've sat in some classes and had a rep or instructor freely acknowledge an issue they'd recently addressed, and explain how to check for it and correct it ... and yet in other classes the company folks would instantly ask where I'd heard about it, acting a bit defensive.

 

[crockett]

My content is not wanted anymore.

 

[grumpy1]

I really like my P classic series SIGs but they are all pre year 2000. However with the SIG P250 and then the P320 SIG and others showed a pattern of releasing a new pistols not ready for prime time to say the least so it does not surprise me to be reading about all the various problems with the P365.

I am very confident in my Walther PPS 9MM as my CCW choice for a thin 9MM pistol and that won't be changing any time soon. I would rather have a few less rounds in the magazine and know my pistol is a proven design that I can count on. If I feel the need to have more rounds on me then my Gen 2 Glock 19 fills that role nicely.

I really hope SIG gets this sorted out but I am not losing any sleep over it.

 

[March817]

Normal for a revolver? I've never seen that on any of my revolvers and the have countless rounds through them.

My point was that firing pin wipe is unlikely to occur with a revolver, so posting a 'normal' picture of a revolver's primer to contrast with an 'abnormal' wiped semiauto's primer is a case of apples-and-oranges.

 

[dj45]

I have only some 2 or 300 rounds through mine. All my primers showed the same dragged face. I already decapped / cleaned all my cases but I will keep some next time around, post photos and look deeper into this issue.

My best guess goes along with your assumption. Pretty sure this is not an easy fix and a serious design flaw. SIG rushed it once again, or didn't invest enough into R&D, and QA.

Tim wrote this in the comments, and I agree:

I believe they're incompetent at multiple levels. I think their CEO, Cohen, is focused on max profits at all costs. I think Sig engineers need to go back to school. Sig needs to stop releasing so many damn guns. They need to fix what is horribly broken on the engineering and production sides of the house and get back to basics. But, that's just my opinion...

Yep, Sig needs to do the right thing, figure out the root causes of the problems, take ownership and fix the issues. Denying, deflecting and ignoring all the customer's concerns (my issue is a deep concern since my P365 hasn't failed yet), will only serve to further mutilate whatever sliver of good reputation Sig has left.

 

[Deputydave]

Just finished watching the video before I saw this thread. Both issues would make me pass up on this pistol right now. In the video he compared the primer strikes on multiple guns. Only the 365 had the issue. I don't see how Sig can say this is a 'non issue'. Another black eye for Sig. And in this market that isn't a good thing. Far too many competitors offering far too many options to squeeze out a turd and expect it to fly.

 

[powernoodle]

Tim was grumpy because his trigger spring broke. That's completely understandable. I would be too. It is also worth noting that this is one known trigger spring issue in how many guns? 10,000? 100,000? I have no idea.

So this is a mixed bag. The vast majority of P365 owners seem to report that their guns run 100%, with no peening or striker issues. So far I've seen exactly one trigger spring break. The difficulty here is in examining numbers, which we just do not have. How many strikers break per 1,000 or 100,000 guns? We don't know. How many guns peen per 100,000? We don't know. Trigger springs? We don't know.

We don't know.

So until we do know, I'm not relying on my P365. I do believe its objectively true that the great majority of the guns run well and are durable. But since we do not know how many problems there are per 1,000 guns, we cannot make any rational analysis of whether there is even a problem in the first place. Tim at MAC has a spring problem, and 80,000 people run to the fora and make it look like there are 80,000 spring breakages. There are not. There is one. But still, one too many.

I've been wrong so many times in my life that I've (somewhat) learned not to jump to conclusions before the data is in. And because we just do not know whether there are 3 striker breakages per 100,000 guns, or 300, we don't know if this is a problem not in line with other new striker guns. Lies spread across the internet before Truth has had a chance to put its boots on. One guy on Youtube has a spring failure, and suddenly the sky is falling. Or is it?

So I'm not carrying my P365 for the foreseeable future. Not because I think its a flawed gun, but just because I do not know that it isn't.

My P365 has been flawless. But I don't have a giant Youtube channel, so it does not cause an internet sensation when my gun runs just like its supposed to.

 

[Kennydale]

Thanks for posting. What does leaving a huge drag on the primer mean! Just trying to understand the perceived issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It means ( so some claim ) your firing pin will break and if your life is in the line; that ain’t good!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[crockett]

My content is not wanted anymore.

 

[Tickhill]

Figures there would be another issue, I just got mine Thursday, haven't even fired it yet.

 

[SlowBurn]

Nuh uh. Sig is the new Remington.

 

[dj45]

Tim was grumpy because his trigger spring broke. That's completely understandable. I would be too. It is also worth noting that this is one known trigger spring issue in how many guns? 10,000? 100,000? I have no idea.

So this is a mixed bag. The vast majority of P365 owners seem to report that their guns run 100%, with no peening or striker issues. So far I've seen exactly one trigger spring break. The difficulty here is in examining numbers, which we just do not have. How many strikers break per 1,000 or 100,000 guns? We don't know. How many guns peen per 100,000? We don't know. Trigger springs? We don't know.

We don't know.

So until we do know, I'm not relying on my P365. I do believe its objectively true that the great majority of the guns run well and are durable. But since we do not know how many problems there are per 1,000 guns, we cannot make any rational analysis of whether there is even a problem in the first place. Tim at MAC has a spring problem, and 80,000 people run to the fora and make it look like there are 80,000 spring breakages. There are not. There is one. But still, one too many.

I've been wrong so many times in my life that I've (somewhat) learned not to jump to conclusions before the data is in. And because we just do not know whether there are 3 striker breakages per 100,000 guns, or 300, we don't know if this is a problem not in line with other new striker guns. Lies spread across the internet before Truth has had a chance to put its boots on. One guy on Youtube has a spring failure, and suddenly the sky is falling. Or is it?

So I'm not carrying my P365 for the foreseeable future. Not because I think its a flawed gun, but just because I do not know that it isn't.

My P365 has been flawless. But I don't have a giant Youtube channel, so it does not cause an internet sensation when my gun runs just like its supposed to.

I agree with everything here. The community as a whole should let Sig analyze the input from owners having issues. Individuals that either already have issues presenting, or see telltale indicators of potential issues, such as the striker drag I've seen with mine, should call Sig and make them aware of what we're seeing.

Which is exactly what I'll be doing on Tuesday. I have several examples of brass with the drag marks on the primers I can send them. But all they really have to do is fire a few rounds through it. It's pretty consistent.

 

[fastbolt]

Personally, while I've generally considered the original P210 to have been in the same category as the original M52, I've always been puzzled by the whole phenomena of people essentially putting the original West German P220's on a pedestal. They used stamped, folded and welded slides and frames that were supposedly capable of providing up to maybe double the older military requirements of a 5K frame service life. They were inexpensive pistols made for standard mil/LE sales. (Then again, I admittedly was influenced by the FBI service pistol testing of many available pistols tested from 87-89, a copy of their in-house report being given to us as part of the student materials provided by the FBI to our firearms instructor class in '90.) Sure, their products were improved upon in the 90's, as competition for US mil/LE sales increased.

In remember being told by a SIG rep in the 2000's that they'd decided, at the corporate level, that they needed to reduce their LE agency pricing (not the individual ofc pricing) by $125/unit, in order to try to remain competitive.

Don't mistake my personal comments as being intended to be derogatory, as I've always thought the Classic pistols were good quality, basic service pistols. I just never elevated them to some pedestal representing the pinnacle of pistol design and achievement.

 

[crockett]

My content is not wanted anymore.

 

[AK_Stick]

Has production of the gun been restarted?


I would think the factory ceasing production to address issues would be enough of a admission of problems with the line.

 

[Caver 60]

I have primer swipe marks on my Kahr 9mm brass, but they are not deep like the pictures you guys are showing. I quit counting rounds at one K on the Kahr. And kahr had barrel peening marks, back when they first came out with the PM9. and breaking followers. I fixed that one myself. But I waited to buy until the other problems were solved.

My Boberg had an issue that necessitated a trip back to the factory, But it runs fine now. And of course my Springfield had the factory recall. Some others (I think Ruger?) have had recent recalls.

Point being, many new firearms have needed tweaking after they were introduced. I do plan to buy a P365, as soon as I feel the problems have been worked out. And I don't care if it cost 500 or 1,500 dollars. As long as the bugs have been worked out and it is reliable, I'll buy. I'm a fan of mini pistols. Especially high capacity mini pistols.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

I'm pretty sure the dead trigger issue has been brought up a few times before MAC's video. This isn't the first time this has happened. Just check out various forums including SigTalk. Here's one thread started on the 22nd: http://sigtalk.com/p250-p320-p365-p320-x-5-pistols/312618-p365-trigger-spring.html

 

[Borg Warner]

bababoris said: ↑
Thanks for posting. What does leaving a huge drag on the primer mean! Just trying to understand the perceived issue.
It means ( so some claim ) your firing pin will break and if your life is in the line; that ain’t good.

And indeed that ain't good because what CAN go wrong WILL go wrong. And a number of firing pins HAVE broken. And what bothers me is that Sig doesn't seem to want to address the issue or even admit that there is an issue.

And even if they weren't able to fix the primer drag that's apparently stressing the strikers and causin gthem to break, they could at least replace the MIM firing pins with forged ones that wouldn't break.

If I had one of these guns, I would gladly pay for a forged firing pin as a voluntary upgrade. But I'd much rather have Sig fix the problems that are causing the firing pins to break. One contributing factor is supposedly carbon buildup in the striker channel.

I'm just glad I didn't buy one of these guns as much as I wanted one after seeing one and handling it. I've never liked the "Baby" Glocks even though they shoot well and are reliable and everything else. For me, they're just to thick and chunky for comfortable deep concealment 24-7-365 carry. The G43 is better but a Kahr PM9 gives you the same capacity in a smaller even more concealable gun.

The Sig is just about right as far as size and capacity but it's a crying shame that they won't address this problem and seem to be writing it off because supposedly it only effects a small percentage of the guns that have been produced.