[Worn]

I've had my gen 2 G19 for decades and put many thousands of rounds through it. Still, each trip to the range requires a mag or two to get my sights to line up more quickly. As is, I always aim too high initially for the first while until my "muscle memory" is awakened.

About two years ago, I bought a 9mm Beretta and found that my initial sight picture with it was better than that with my Glock. The Beretta's grip angle seems to agree with me better than does Glock's.

I have a 9mm LaserLyte practice round. It shoots a short beam of red laser when the trigger is pressed. I used it to try "point shooting" with my assorted 9mm handguns. By point shooting, I mean looking at your target, pointing the gun at it without ever using the gun's sights and shooting. Watch for the red flash.

With my Beretta, Walther, Keltec, Kahr, Hi-Power and others, my aim was always closer to the mark than when point shooting my Glock. Glock was always high.

I know that Glock's grip angle was a point of much discussion way back when (and maybe still is) but it was one of those things that I paid little attention to until my own epiphany.

Some people really love the grip angle. Many, not unlike me, simply worked with it and others hate it and refuse to use a Glock. Perhaps there are those whose muscle memory works better than mine and trained to get good initial sight alignment even after a shooting hiatus.

I personally think it's a personal physiology thing. And, I believe that, in a gunfight, all but the very best and most disciplined and most practiced will likely end up closer to point shooting than to actually aligning their sights on a target.

Also, if one's natural point of aim is closer to having the sights aligned, it will take less time to achieve sight alignment and thus having an EDC that "point shoots" well could be a life saver. For some, whose natural grip comports better with Glock's grip angle, that would be a Glock. For others, it might be something else.

After decades of carrying a G19, I may be switching to a compact Beretta for EDC.

 

[1canvas]

For my close SD range I point shoot, I think that's practical. My Glocks work fine for me.

 

[Instymp]

I feel the same way about my Colt 911 that I sold & never should have & my S&W shield 45. They just point better for ME than my Gen 4 23. But I just keep hanging on to my 23.

 

[Glock Commander]

... About two years ago, I bought a 9mm Beretta and found that my initial sight picture with it was better than that with my Glock. The Beretta's grip angle seems to agree with me better than does Glock's.

After decades of carrying a G19, I may be switching to a compact Beretta for EDC.

I carried a 92FS OWB for a few years. I usually wore a unbuttoned BDU jacket to cover it. I really like the Berettas too.

 

[Oldgaglocker]

I've had my gen 2 G19 for decades and put many thousands of rounds through it. Still, each trip to the range requires a mag or two to get my sights to line up more quickly. As is, I always aim too high initially for the first while until my "muscle memory" is awakened.

About two years ago, I bought a 9mm Beretta and found that my initial sight picture with it was better than that with my Glock. The Beretta's grip angle seems to agree with me better than does Glock's.

I have a 9mm LaserLyte practice round. It shoots a short beam of red laser when the trigger is pressed. I used it to try "point shooting" with my assorted 9mm handguns. By point shooting, I mean looking at your target, pointing the gun at it without ever using the gun's sights and shooting. Watch for the red flash.

With my Beretta, Walther, Keltec, Kahr, Hi-Power and others, my aim was always closer to the mark than when point shooting my Glock. Glock was always high.

I know that Glock's grip angle was a point of much discussion way back when (and maybe still is) but it was one of those things that I paid little attention to until my own epiphany.

Some people really love the grip angle. Many, not unlike me, simply worked with it and others hate it and refuse to use a Glock. Perhaps there are those whose muscle memory works better than mine and trained to get good initial sight alignment even after a shooting hiatus.

I personally think it's a personal physiology thing. And, I believe that, in a gunfight, all but the very best and most disciplined and most practiced will likely end up closer to point shooting than to actually aligning their sights on a target.

Also, if one's natural point of aim is closer to having the sights aligned, it will take less time to achieve sight alignment and thus having an EDC that "point shoots" well could be a life saver. For some, whose natural grip comports better with Glock's grip angle, that would be a Glock. For others, it might be something else.

After decades of carrying a G19, I may be switching to a compact Beretta for EDC.

I agree when I try to shoot any GI type 45 I can not hit anything except the ceiling at the indoor range

For that reason I switched to GLOCKS , I have the best scores with any GLOCK. Do I still like other brands of guns oh yes I rent them for 10.00 at the range , I get to say I shot them with out A major non refundable pistol purchase. I suffer from gunitis vigatitus. If Mrs. Oldgaglocker did not keep me on gunbuying restrictions I could open a gun shop.

Enjoy your Berretta its a great gun

 

[OttoLoader]

How you hold the grip has a large affect on point shooting.
For me I support the pistol or revolver with the palm below the thumb. This supports the lower end of the handgun grip. Glock Ruger Mark III S&W K frame and L frame with square butt grips naturally aligned point shoot.
If holding with the grip of Glock Ruger Mark III and S&W square butt revolver more toward center of palm then the barrel points slight upward (high).
The individual need to grip each firearm as the designer intended.

 

[Kennydale]

Can't argue with that logic. Best of luck !

 

[quantico]

My skills at point shooting are way way better with a 1911 or sig pistol... the glocks I can shoot , but it takes time to get my aim locked in... the glock is cheap and mostly reliable and disposable on some level... so I have some around.

 

[sciolist]

I've had my gen 2 G19 for decades and put many thousands of rounds through it. Still, each trip to the range requires a mag or two to get my sights to line up more quickly. As is, I always aim too high initially for the first while until my "muscle memory" is awakened.

About two years ago, I bought a 9mm Beretta and found that my initial sight picture with it was better than that with my Glock. The Beretta's grip angle seems to agree with me better than does Glock's.

I have a 9mm LaserLyte practice round. It shoots a short beam of red laser when the trigger is pressed. I used it to try "point shooting" with my assorted 9mm handguns. By point shooting, I mean looking at your target, pointing the gun at it without ever using the gun's sights and shooting. Watch for the red flash.

With my Beretta, Walther, Keltec, Kahr, Hi-Power and others, my aim was always closer to the mark than when point shooting my Glock. Glock was always high.

I know that Glock's grip angle was a point of much discussion way back when (and maybe still is) but it was one of those things that I paid little attention to until my own epiphany.

Some people really love the grip angle. Many, not unlike me, simply worked with it and others hate it and refuse to use a Glock. Perhaps there are those whose muscle memory works better than mine and trained to get good initial sight alignment even after a shooting hiatus.

I personally think it's a personal physiology thing. And, I believe that, in a gunfight, all but the very best and most disciplined and most practiced will likely end up closer to point shooting than to actually aligning their sights on a target.

Also, if one's natural point of aim is closer to having the sights aligned, it will take less time to achieve sight alignment and thus having an EDC that "point shoots" well could be a life saver. For some, whose natural grip comports better with Glock's grip angle, that would be a Glock. For others, it might be something else.

After decades of carrying a G19, I may be switching to a compact Beretta for EDC.

I agree it's easier to use a tool with intuitive ergonomics, but how intuitively a particular gun points for you is not the only relevant consideration. The main reason I've stuck with Glock is grip. For me, the ability to acquire and present a mount with a consistent index is the most fundamental issue with pistol mechanics - especially at a high rate of fire. The Glock allows me to do that better than most other pistols, in spite of the fact that I tend to point it a little high.

Muscles don't have memory - only the brain does. There was a time when you didn't know how to point any pistol. You had to learn that consciously and move it to your subconscious as a fundamental skill. It can be further refined.

You don't provide any reference times, so it's hard to put this in context. I suspect you just need to spend some time learning to draw to an appropriate sight picture.

On an open target, where you're using a full target focus and limited primarily by mechanics, it doesn't make that much difference if the gun presents a little high. How well you can grip the gun to minimize flip has much more impact on keeping shots from going high.

On a tight target, you should have plenty of time to aim as the sight picture decelerates toward the target surface. If not, that is something you can improve greatly with thoughtful practice.

 

[sig357fan]

If I may suggest, buy a cheep "Grip Force" beavertail adapter on ebay, get the short one. helps to straighten out the grip angle much like flattening the bottom of the back strap but with out modifying the frame.

 

[amd65]

My G17 and G26 both point like a finger for me...
But I can switch to a Tokarev or a 92FS, and they also point well for me.

 

[John Biltz]

What I'm taking from this is spend more time shooting what you carry and less time shooting guns that have a different grip angle.

I don't believe you are born with one grip angle being correct for you its what you learn and what you practice with. If you are going to be shooting more often with guns with different grip angles than a Glock then that is what you are going to get used to.

Its called the Glock grip angle but he did not invent it. That grip angle had been around for a very long time and has been used on a number of different guns. I could be wrong because my memory is not what it used to be but I believe JMB created a few of them himself.

 

[Worn]

What I'm taking from this is spend more time shooting what you carry and less time shooting guns that have a different grip angle.

In my case, my G19 was pretty much my only 9mm for nearly two decades. And I've always shot it high when point shooting. Each trip to the range takes me a while to modify my hold to get the shots down. Running a mag or two is not a luxury one can afford in a self-defense situation. I'd prefer to EDC a weapon that works right straight off.

It's only in the last five years or so that I've begun buying other brands and discovered how much better I point shoot them. That being the case, I still do most of my shooting with my G19. It's the one with which I train the most. It's the one I used at Front Sight It gets shot every trip to the range, unlike any of my others. It's the one with which I am most familiar. And I always tend to shoot high with it at first.

I don't believe you are born with one grip angle being correct for you its what you learn and what you practice with.

I suspect that this, like so many other things, varies with the individual. In just this thread there have been people who switch from Glock to other weapons and back again with no problems. There have also been some who, like me, tend to point a Glock higher.

If you are going to be shooting more often with guns with different grip angles than a Glock then that is what you are going to get used to.

That's fine in theory but does not always hold in practice.

 

[Bruce M]

I can see three ways to remedy this in increasing order of complexity. You maybe able to learn how to hold the Glock a bit differently at first. That may require many range trips in which you only shoot a magazine full from the Glock to satisfy yourself you have learned. You may be able to get a skilled hand surgeon to reshape your hand. This will not be inexpensive, and it may take multiple surgeries before he gets your hand perfectly suited for a Glock, and it may involve grafting some tissue from the buttocks area to the hand. Like any surgery, it is not without some risk. Or, and this may be the most difficult one, you may be able to resign yourself to the possibility that at this point in your life should you actually have to use it, some gun other than a Glock may well be the better choice for you. While in theory this may seem to fly in the face of everything that we hold Holy and potentially destabilize Western civilization, you may take some minimal solace that some guys actually do end up coming out on top both in actual gun fights and gun competitions with guns other than a Glock.

 

[aboyle55]

Grip force adapter.

 

[Col. Cornelius]

I have the same problem with the Glock grip angle.

The Grip Force Adapter (as mentioned by several above) is a great solution to this problem.