[fnfalman]

Why in God's name would you put your thumb on the safety while shooting?

To be fair, one of those official Army videos on theM1911A1 showed a demonstrator shooting it with thumb on the safety. It's black and white, so the video was made at least in the early 1950s if not earlier.

Found a video. At the 1:30 mark or about.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nfjX847FBlU

 

[Bren]

My hands have difficulty engaging the grip safety, even with the memory pads (I own ~25 1911's), using a high thumb grip. I have thin hands, and the space between the thenar and palmar prominences on my shooting hand is exactly where the grip safety sits.

I have to wonder why anybody would buy or carry a gun with controls they have trouble operating, much less 25 of them.

The original design didn't have a grip safety.

 

[FLIPPER 348]

It isn't "common" at all. Having your thumb there can cause it to contact the slide during recoil, which could induce a malfunction. On another thread right now he is giving shooting advice (all wrong) and calling me "Sarge".

He can proudly call me Sarge or Lt Commander

 

[OttoLoader]

In my experience 1911s with the extended safety lever can be bumped in recoil with your thumb below it. So with an extended safety I started to place my thumb over the safety as recommended by Cooper.
With the original GI safety I started with as a teenager I never had this problem. So I had my thumb below the safety while shooting, seemed natural to me. Never read or even heard of Cooper when I was a teenager. Only had stock government models available.
If you prefer the below safety style perhaps consider a GI style safety instead of an extended.

 

[fnfalman]

My hands have difficulty engaging the grip safety, even with the memory pads (I own ~25 1911's), using a high thumb grip. I have thin hands, and the space between the thenar and palmar prominences on my shooting hand is exactly where the grip safety sits.

The new Wilson 9mm 1911 style gun does away with the grip safety. Most competitors pin or remove the grip safety.

What is the purpose of the grip safety if there is also a thumb safety? Why continue it? Just because it was in the original design?

The grip safety keeps the trigger bow from being moved backward.

Just pin the grip safety if your hand doesn't allow you to reliably deactivate it.

 

[Jim Watson]

As far as the ergonomics go, it STARTS here:

A high-thumb grip on a 1911 tends to lessen the pressure the web of your hand exerts on the grip safety. If the grip safety is not compressed far enough to disengage it, the gun won’t fire.

But wait. there's more. The beavertail grip safety prevents hammer bite, spreads the recoil load over a wider area, and kind of funnels the hand into a good grip on the draw. Fine. But that wasn't enough for the gunsmiths serving the run n gun market. They started shaping the beavertail higher and higher, to the point that the frame had to be extensively ground away to blend the contour. This permits an even higher hold on the gun, a slightly lower bore axis to reduce muzzle rise. But this opens up the palm hollow even more and puts the pressure on the grip safety near its pivot point, reducing the movement and force needed to disengage the safety. Hence cometh the "memory bump" to regain some of that contact. And actuating arms filed down for early release.
I loaned a new shooter a 1911oid (until she went Glock, so you can rub it in) and had to cement a hard rubber pad on the bump to give her enough contact. Another shooter here had the bump welded up into a hump for a permanent cure.

History: Many posts here and elsewhere said "John Browning didn't design the 1911 with a grip safety." Of course he did, otherwise it wouldn't be a 1911, it would be a 1902 or a G.R. The US Army requested a grip safety as of 1907 and all later Colt/Browning developmental models up until the actual 1911 had one. So did the Luger, so did the Savage. Why? It was in the mil-spec.
Mr Browning obviously did not have anything against grip safeties, he put them in numerous other pistols not going to the US Army.

 

[FLIPPER 348]

I have to wonder why anybody would buy or carry a gun with controls they have trouble operating, much less 25 of them.

The original design didn't have a grip safety.

That's not a 1911 but rather the 1905, one of many design concepts that led to the 1911

 

[FLIPPER 348]

In my experience 1911s with the extended safety lever can be bumped in recoil with your thumb below it. So with an extended safety I started to place my thumb over the safety as recommended by Cooper.
With the original GI safety I started with as a teenager I never had this problem. So I had my thumb below the safety while shooting, seemed natural to me. Never read or even heard of Cooper when I was a teenager. Only had stock government models available.
If you prefer the below safety style perhaps consider a GI style safety instead of an extended.

Gospel, preach it brother. The extended thumb safeties cause more problems it seems than they solve. The Colt teardrop style works best for me.

A great and affordable

book on the development of the 1911, dispels many myths.

 

[Bren]

That's not a 1911 but rather the 1905.

Which was the earliest version, before improvements on the 1905 produced the 1911.

 

[FLIPPER 348]

Which was the earliest version, before improvements on the 1905 produced the 1911.

It's one of many versions, far from the earliest. And one of the very few to be found without a grip safety. That book I posted a picture of would be good for you. Every page has at least one picture so you should have no problems

 

[fnfalman]

I have to wonder why anybody would buy or carry a gun with controls they have trouble operating, much less 25 of them.

The original design didn't have a grip safety.

Nor did it have a thumb safety.

If memory served, all it had was a half-cock position.

 

[Terlingueno]

It isn't "common" at all. Having your thumb there can cause it to contact the slide during recoil, which could induce a malfunction...

Never had that "issue" at all, ever, in 36 years of carrying and shooting 1911's

 

[FLIPPER 348]

Never had that "issue" at all, ever, in 36 years of carrying and shooting 1911's

 

[CajunBass]

I don't claim this is anything official, but as to "why" have a grip safety, put yourself on a horse, during a cavalry fight. You have your 1911 attached to your body with a lanyard. Now, drop your 1911 for whatever reason. Maybe you're wounded. Suddenly, you have a cocked and unlocked pistol swinging around on the end of a string.

I can see where a grip safety might be nice.

I'm a long way from being any kind of an expert, but I've owned three or four 1911's and an XD. I never had a problem with the grip safety. I barely knew it was there.

 

[faawrenchbndr]

Putting a thumb on the safety does take away a good bit of the thumb web off the grip safety. This is why people who ride the safety prefer the memory bump. When adrenaline is flowing, not everything is going to go as planned. Therefore, my opinion is not bull-squat. Just a little difference in grip while the thumb is on top the safety, could make the pistol not fire.

My reply was in regard to your BS comment about the 1911 being "a range use only pistol".

A complete BS statement.

 

[FLIPPER 348]

I'm sure this Jeff Cooper is a great guy. I've heard the name but don't pay attention to gun writers or 1911 trainers. He obviously has lots of fans but only set a 'standard' for those that like his technique

 

[Sechott]

My opinion only implies; If a shooter has the habit of riding the safety. He should use the the 1911 for the range only.

 

[treg]

I don't claim this is anything official, but as to "why" have a grip safety, put yourself on a horse, during a cavalry fight. You have your 1911 attached to your body with a lanyard. Now, drop your 1911 for whatever reason. Maybe you're wounded. Suddenly, you have a cocked and unlocked pistol swinging around on the end of a string.

I can see where a grip safety might be nice.

The first rule of The Horse: If it can go wrong, it will.

 

[F106 Fan]

Buy a replacement grip safety and grind away. I wouldn't grind the factory original!

As I recall, when I present the firearm from the holster, my thumb is on the safety. By the time I have gotten the firearm clear of the holster, the safety is coming off - somewhere around 45 degrees to the ground. By the time the firearm is on target, my thumb is still on the safeth and my left thumb is over my right thumb, holding it on the safety and now it's time to shoot.

So, yes, I ride the safety and I haven't quite adapted to the 'both thumbs forward' approach.

 

[Grunow]

I'm sure this Jeff Cooper is a great guy. I've heard the name but don't pay attention to gun writers or 1911 trainers.

Yes, your self-chosen ignorance is painfully apparent based on the comments you are making here.