[Rocky7]

Okay, it's time to evaluate what I am doing and what may be a better way.

Taking time off to rehab and evaluate different prejudices that I have developed over 25 years of competing and listening.

Want to look at the stock 5.0# connector, your trigger spring that you use, and whether you use a reduced power striker spring, and or lighter safety plunger spring. The connector (Glock) the springs if not stock who's and their rating.

The minus connector initiates creep that may be costing me considerable time at the expense of a perceived lighter pull. I would appreciate answers from those that have a trigger pull gauge and shoot at least 4K rounds a year. At the moment only interested in the Glock connector, and those using the 1-3 aftermarket springs.

Yes, I have read this before but I am ready to evaluate now, the timing is right and shooting from the reset is on my mind, thanks in advance.

 

[Mike-M]

The "stock" connector in most pre-Gen4 Glocks is UNMARKED and produces a nominal trigger pull of 5.5-lbf in otherwise OEM pre-Gen4 Glocks.

Tac/Prac 5.3-in barrel and Long Slide 6.0-in barrel models that are not Blue Label use the MINUS connector, which produces a nominal 4.5-lbf trigger pull in otherwise OEM pre-Gen4 Glock.

In Gen4 pistols, the trigger pull that results is about 0.5-lbf greater than that listed above for pre-Gen4.

There is no stock OEM connector *rated* by Glock at 5.0-lbf. There is only the stock DOT connector which produces Glock's nominal 5.5-lbf trigger pull in an OEM Gen4 Glock. However, the DOT connector when installed in an OEM pre-Gen4 Glock will produce a trigger pull of about 5.0-lbf.

Glock restricts the sale of the DOT and MINUS connectors, even for certified armorers.

 

[Rocky7]

Okay, it's time to evaluate what I am doing and what may be a better way.

Taking time off to rehab and evaluate different prejudices that I have developed over 25 years of competing and listening.

Want to look at the stock 5.0# connector, your trigger spring that you use, and whether you use a reduced power striker spring, and or lighter safety plunger spring. The connector (Glock) the springs if not stock who's and their rating.

The minus connector initiates creep that may be costing me considerable time at the expense of a perceived lighter pull. I would appreciate answers from those that have a trigger pull gauge and shoot at least 4K rounds a year. At the moment only interested in the Glock connector, and those using the 1-3 aftermarket springs.

Yes, I have read this before but I am ready to evaluate now, the timing is right and shooting from the reset is on my mind, thanks in advance.

The "stock" connector in most pre-Gen4 Glocks is UNMARKED and produces a nominal trigger pull of 5.5-lbf in otherwise OEM pre-Gen4 Glocks.

Tac/Prac 5.3-in barrel and Long Slide 6.0-in barrel models that are not Blue Label use the MINUS connector, which produces a nominal 4.5-lbf trigger pull in otherwise OEM pre-Gen4 Glock.

In Gen4 pistols, the trigger pull that results is about 0.5-lbf greater than that listed above for pre-Gen4.

There is no stock OEM connector *rated* by Glock at 5.0-lbf. There is only the stock DOT connector which produces Glock's nominal 5.5-lbf trigger pull in an OEM Gen4 Glock. However, the DOT connector when installed in an OEM pre-Gen4 Glock will produce a trigger pull of about 5.0-lbf.

Glock restricts the sale of the DOT and MINUS connectors, even for certified armorers.

You forgot the statement about toys using aftermarket springs.
Thanks for the weekly sermon Mike.

P.s You are right Glock made a connector, trying to reach 3.5# , had everyone at the GSSF matches believing so, stating its availability, along came competition and well the first lie was born.:birthday:

 

[HGxyz]

I like the liberal attitude. I've been using 6 lb trigger springs (LWD) for several years. They may give a slightly lighter pull, but I really can't perceive it clearly. I think they are less likely to break, but I haven't experienced any broken trigger spring.

Shooting from the reset is like free money - take advantage of it, I don't see any downside. Also, if you do get a broken trigger spring, once a round is chambered you can keep firing from the reset until the mag is empty. You can disconnect the TS and see for yourself.

Your statements about the connector are about what I would say - lighter pull (1 lb on average with my digital scale) and more creep. I can't say it there is a time issue for me. I guess if you take the time to press the trigger carefully up to the break point with a low angle connector, there could be, but not much if you just pull straight through. Creep is quite measurable - take up the slack, mark your fingernail on the trigger guard, dry fire, then measure the distance to where your finger ends up.

Stock FP and FP safety springs for me. I can't cite any evidence for not going lighter, it may all be in my imagination. I want to be damn sure the FP safety works, and I test it every time I clean.

 

[Rocky7]

I like the liberal attitude. I've been using 6 lb trigger springs (LWD) for several years. They may give a slightly lighter pull, but I really can't perceive it clearly. I think they are less likely to break, but I haven't experienced any broken trigger spring.

Shooting from the reset is like free money - take advantage of it, I don't see any downside. Also, if you do get a broken trigger spring, once a round is chambered you can keep firing from the reset until the mag is empty. You can disconnect the TS and see for yourself.

Your statements about the connector are about what I would say - lighter pull (1 lb on average with my digital scale) and more creep. I can't say it there is a time issue for me. I guess if you take the time to press the trigger carefully up to the break point with a low angle connector, there could be, but not much if you just pull straight through. Creep is quite measurable - take up the slack, mark your fingernail on the trigger guard, dry fire, then measure the distance to where your finger ends up.

Stock FP and FP safety springs for me. I can't cite any evidence for not going lighter, it may all be in my imagination. I want to be damn sure the FP safety works, and I test it every time I clean.

Thanks for the reply, I've noticed in training with the 30s I am taking more time than the norm. I have (2) 30s and will experiment with one and keep the other in my normal setup. Also see some things about flat triggers(shoes) that was interesting as well. That may also be a faster alternative.

Whatever I end up with will also be for carry as well, if you can look at sights I'm not too big to look at triggers.

 

[tager]

Afternoon Rocky7,

At one time or another I have tried or used about all of the things you mentioned above.

I'm still on the fence as to what works the best as I have found over the years that what works just great in one Glock feels not so great in the next Glock.

It also depends on what I'm shooting at. For 25 meter 8" falling plates "slow fire" I seem to get more plate hits when setting my Glocks up to have a distinctive wall just before the break with a very short crisp pull through (that allows me to get the gun on target as I quickly pull the trigger to the wall, THEN clean up my sight picture & break the shot).

For fast movers or timed targets where all I have to do is keep the bullets in the "A" zone then I (personally) seem to do better with a no-wall trigger pull as I can smoothly press through the shot as I am coming on target & starting the aiming process. (nice smooth swift press-through)

One thing I do is re-set on recoil so trigger reset distance isn't usually a problem for me.

I know where you are coming from here & can understand your desire for knowledge.

My one suggestion is to go find some other (striker fired) guns then play with those in between your Glock shooting.

I thought I had my Glock trigger pulls all under control (smooth pre-travel, defined wall, short crisp break with a somewhat short pull-through with a 4.5# pull weight.

That held just fine UNTIL I started shooting a couple of Walthers (P-99 & PPQ)-- The PPQ has one of the nicest shortest break 4# triggers of any striker fired guns I have ever shot. Trigger is really sweet -BUT- I just didn't shoot it that great. Shot it OK but not as good as the nice trigger pull should have indicated.

Just the opposite with the P-99 as that gun has the quick-pull trigger. Every bit of 5.5# trigger pull but a VERY SHORT pre-pull & a very short very crisp break. (trigger actually feels too heavy to shoot good). For some reason I find I shoot that gun/trigger combination better than any other striker fired gun I own at slow fire targets.

Those 2 Walthers had me go back & reevaluate all my Glock trigger set ups (I'm still trying different things to find out what I shoot best on what type of target).

I know this doesn't directly answer your question but the one thing I have (personally) learned from all the above is: just because it feels good when dry firing in my shop or sitting in my easy chair doesn't mean I will shoot it good at the range.

 

[HGxyz]

Thanks for the reply, I've noticed in training with the 30s I am taking more time than the norm. I have (2) 30s and will experiment with one and keep the other in my normal setup. Also see some things about flat triggers(shoes) that was interesting as well. That may also be a faster alternative.

Whatever I end up with will also be for carry as well, if you can look at sights I'm not too big to look at triggers.

I have a G21 trigger in my G30sf. I don't care for the serrated trigger shoes at all. That LWD adjustable smooth shoe I was trying on a G43, had to go, it just would not hold together. I recommend against it. I replaced mine with the shoe I took off a G17 trigger bar.

Actually I'm experimenting, or reevaluating in the opposite way. I'm revisiting the connector issue to see if I still dislike the creepy connectors so much.

 

[Glockdude1]

Okay, it's time to evaluate what I am doing and what may be a better way.

Taking time off to rehab and evaluate different prejudices that I have developed over 25 years of competing and listening.

Want to look at the stock 5.0# connector, your trigger spring that you use, and whether you use a reduced power striker spring, and or lighter safety plunger spring. The connector (Glock) the springs if not stock who's and their rating.

The minus connector initiates creep that may be costing me considerable time at the expense of a perceived lighter pull. I would appreciate answers from those that have a trigger pull gauge and shoot at least 4K rounds a year. At the moment only interested in the Glock connector, and those using the 1-3 aftermarket springs.

Yes, I have read this before but I am ready to evaluate now, the timing is right and shooting from the reset is on my mind, thanks in advance.

I have been using a 4.5lb striker spring, 6lb trigger spring, standard 5.5 connector & .25 cent polish job.

That's it.

My G22 & G35 runs great with the .40 .357 Sig and 9mm, with the 40-9mm LW conversion barrels.

I have no interest in changing the plunger spring.

 

[Rocky7]

Afternoon Rocky7,

At one time or another I have tried or used about all of the things you mentioned above.

I'm still on the fence as to what works the best as I have found over the years that what works just great in one Glock feels not so great in the next Glock.

It also depends on what I'm shooting at. For 25 meter 8" falling plates "slow fire" I seem to get more plate hits when setting my Glocks up to have a distinctive wall just before the break with a very short crisp pull through (that allows me to get the gun on target as I quickly pull the trigger to the wall, THEN clean up my sight picture & break the shot).

For fast movers or timed targets where all I have to do is keep the bullets in the "A" zone then I (personally) seem to do better with a no-wall trigger pull as I can smoothly press through the shot as I am coming on target & starting the aiming process. (nice smooth swift press-through)

One thing I do is re-set on recoil so trigger reset distance isn't usually a problem for me.

I know where you are coming from here & can understand your desire for knowledge.

My one suggestion is to go find some other (striker fired) guns then play with those in between your Glock shooting.

I thought I had my Glock trigger pulls all under control (smooth pre-travel, defined wall, short crisp break with a somewhat short pull-through with a 4.5# pull weight.

That held just fine UNTIL I started shooting a couple of Walthers (P-99 & PPQ)-- The PPQ has one of the nicest shortest break 4# triggers of any striker fired guns I have ever shot. Trigger is really sweet -BUT- I just didn't shoot it that great. Shot it OK but not as good as the nice trigger pull should have indicated.

Just the opposite with the P-99 as that gun has the quick-pull trigger. Every bit of 5.5# trigger pull but a VERY SHORT pre-pull & a very short very crisp break. (trigger actually feels too heavy to shoot good). For some reason I find I shoot that gun/trigger combination better than any other striker fired gun I own at slow fire targets.

Those 2 Walthers had me go back & reevaluate all my Glock trigger set ups (I'm still trying different things to find out what I shoot best on what type of target).

I know this doesn't directly answer your question but the one thing I have (personally) learned from all the above is: just because it feels good when dry firing in my shop or sitting in my easy chair doesn't mean I will shoot it good at the range.

Thanks for the reply, at 64 I picked my poison and that's Glocks. The 9mm's have not been a challenge but steel at 25 meters with the 30s ,quickly I find my self second guessing.

I have taken a break from competing and asking questions and challenging myself. I fortunately have duplicates and in some cases three of a platform. The 30s is the present platform that I am trying to master, I will probably try a stock polished connector and evaluate what does and does not work with the dot connector. I will put the timer to task after 2000 rounds are down range and a combination is decided upon.

I shoot the 17, 26 and 30s equally well, but it's time to go to the next stage . After this evaluation (probably this time next year) I will do the same and buy a couple Glock 33's and go through the same motion. Thanks again.

 

[Rocky7]

I have a G21 trigger in my G30sf. I don't care for the serrated trigger shoes at all. That LWD adjustable smooth shoe I was trying on a G43, had to go, it just would not hold together. I recommend against it. I replaced mine with the shoe I took off a G17 trigger bar.

Actually I'm experimenting, or reevaluating in the opposite way. I'm revisiting the connector issue to see if I still dislike the creepy connectors so much.

I have the smooth 21 trigger in both 30s's. I'm wondering though if flat face triggers will be faster for me.

 

[Rocky7]

I have been using a 4.5lb striker spring, 6lb trigger spring, standard 5.5 connector & .25 cent polish job.

That's it.

My G22 & G35 runs great with the .40 .357 Sig and 9mm, with the 40-9mm LW conversion barrels.

I have no interest in changing the plunger spring.

Thanks for the response, do you remember whose springs you are using?

 

[Glockdude1]

Thanks for the response, do you remember who's springs you are using?

http://www.ndzperformance.com/category-s/1829.htm

:thumbsup:

 

[Rocky7]

http://www.ndzperformance.com/category-s/1829.htm

:thumbsup:

Yup, that's what I am using today, thanks.

 

[tager]

Afternoon Rocky7,

Be real careful if using a 6# trigger spring & an under 5.5# Wolff striker spring. With a lower powered striker spring & higher powered trigger spring the lower powered striker spring don't always have enough oomph to push the trigger all the way forward to allow trigger safety engagement.

Allow the slide to go back into battery slowly then make darn sure trigger safety re-sets & prevents trigger travel if pushing back on the corner of the trigger.

 

[Rocky7]

Afternoon Rocky7,

Be real careful if using a 6# trigger spring & an under 5.5# Wolff striker spring. With a lower powered striker spring & higher powered trigger spring the lower powered striker spring don't always have enough oomph to push the trigger all the way forward to allow trigger safety engagement.

Allow the slide to go back into battery slowly then make darn sure trigger safety re-sets & prevents trigger travel if pushing back on the corner of the trigger.

Thanks for the input, last three years been using that setup from Wolff, probably 45k through the 26's and 5k through the 17's. Have been using these in Steel Challenge and practice. Fortunately I load my own, and just a few grains below max.

The 30s have a different recoil impulse and that is what I am addressing....,the long push vs a fast snap. I will be working on a load as well as addressing the connectors and springs. The trigger pull on the 30s is very light on both guns and I am out of sync., the creep vs hitting a heavier wall sooner might be the solution

P.s yup trigger reset is always a concern with the heavier trigger spring vs the lighter striker spring. I am not physically seeing it but I do not have the harmony that I experienced with the 9mm's. Too bad Glock started the issue way back when it called the lightest connector 3.5#, it's like saying Columbus was the first one to discover America. I guess the first lie is usually forgiven or forgotten.

 

[tager]

Evening Rocky7,

You might try going back to the stock trigger spring as a test (will probably only add back 1/4# to the trigger pull weight if you have a 5# or 5.5 # striker spring installed.

The 6# trigger spring works in some of my Glocks but in others I get a funny feeling trigger in slow pull as I can sort of feel the trigger move out from under my finger pressure as the 6# actually moves the trigger pull along in a slight creep form.

I had my Gen4 G-22 set up with a 5.5 wolff striker spring, 6# trigger spring & a -2 trigger bar. (felt pretty good dry firing but I didn't shoot it that good at precision targets)
I want back to a stock trigger spring & it actually felt quite a bit better without that weird creep of the 6# spring. (I think that creep was giving me trigger anticipation)

What I seem to be slowly learning is: a 6# trigger spring works good with a stock striker spring but in some cases not so good with a lower power striker spring.

I shot it like that for a while & thought it was OK, then I installed the old Gen3 (no mark) connector & that felt REAL good as I got no creep, nice firm wall, & very short pull-through.

But like I mentioned in my post above I am sort of changing my trigger quest from "feels best" to "shoots best" & at the moment I can't say with authority that they are one in the same.

 

[Rocky7]

Evening Rocky7,

You might try going back to the stock trigger spring as a test (will probably only add back 1/4# to the trigger pull weight if you have a 5# or 5.5 # striker spring installed.

The 6# trigger spring works in some of my Glocks but in others I get a funny feeling trigger in slow pull as I can sort of feel the trigger move out from under my finger pressure as the 6# actually moves the trigger pull along in a slight creep form.

I had my Gen4 G-22 set up with a 5.5 wolff striker spring, 6# trigger spring & a -2 trigger bar. (felt pretty good dry firing but I didn't shoot it that good at precision targets)
I want back to a stock trigger spring & it actually felt quite a bit better without that weird creep of the 6# spring. (I think that creep was giving me trigger anticipation)

What I seem to be slowly learning is: a 6# trigger spring works good with a stock striker spring but in some cases not so good with a lower power striker spring.

I shot it like that for a while & thought it was OK, then I installed the old Gen3 (no mark) connector & that felt REAL good as I got no creep, nice firm wall, & very short pull-through.

But like I mentioned in my post above I am sort of changing my trigger quest from "feels best" to "shoots best" & at the moment I can't say with authority that they are one in the same.

When I do diligence I will add and subtract components one by one, going back to all stock will be an option. I usually shoot (200) rounds per option choose two and shoot 500, last test is 1000 rounds of successful completion. I have room to play with on the 30s triggers for whatever reason they originally had a lower trigger pull. Thanks for thinking out loud, we are on the same track.

 

[Dave.1]

A couple of years ago when I was looking for a better set up for GSSF and local indoor matches I bought Lone Wolf 3.5, Ghost Rocket 3.5, Glock OEM 4.5 and Vanek-Glock OEM 4.5 connectors. The only spring change I did was the Wolff 6 lb trigger spring. All of the connectors gave me about a 4 lb 2 oz ± 2 oz on a Lyman Digital gauge.

I used these in my two G17 frames and was able to change back and forth for what was an unscientific test (repeated over several weeks) but one that helped me settle on the Vanek-Glock connector. http://www.vanekcustom.com/4.html

It claims to be a tuned connector. I don't know how it's tuned but it is highly polished and is a Glock OEM product so I can shoot stock in GSSF matches too.


Dave

 

[Rocky7]

A couple of years ago when I was looking for a better set up for GSSF and local indoor matches I bought Lone Wolf 3.5, Ghost Rocket 3.5, Glock OEM 4.5 and Vanek-Glock OEM 4.5 connectors. The only spring change I did was the Wolff 6 lb trigger spring. All of the connectors gave me about a 4 lb 2 oz ± 2 oz on a Lyman Digital gauge.

I used these in my two G17 frames and was able to change back and forth for what was an unscientific test (repeated over several weeks) but one that helped me settle on the Vanek-Glock connector. http://www.vanekcustom.com/4.html

It claims to be a tuned connector. I don't know how it's tuned but it is highly polished and is a Glock OEM product so I can shoot stock in GSSF matches too.


Dave

Thanks Dave, familiar with Charlie Vanek before he was popular, shot a GSSF match (which he won) at Fort Smith Arkansas. He shared some information, which I used till about two years ago. My connectors were also polished...I did not tune them though.

Trying to stay with a Glock connector unless I look at something completely different and a flat faced trigger(pretty radical for me). Thanks for the info and glad to see Charlie's doing well.

 

[sciolist]

I like the #5 trigger spring, FP spring around #3.75 and the OE minus connector. I use pretty aggressive pre/over travel stops in the trigger shoe. I've tried the #5 OE connector, and like the minus better, but it's not a huge deal.

I shoot about 30K rounds/year of out of production guns, I've been training and competing for about 4 years, and I'm classified M in production.

I don't have a pull gauge, but the triggers I've built that I like best are probably about #2.5. It is definitely possible to get the trigger pull lighter than I prefer it to be, but I do not see a need for the more pronounced break of the heavier connector (which is not the same thing as overall trigger resistance).

Actually triggering the gun is not that much of a limitation in my mind. I very rarely shoot faster splits than 0.18 on field courses. Even on relatively close open paper, 0.20 is still OK for production. On a 5-yard Bill drill, I'd be into the 0.16x range, but I try to hold myself to the standard of seeing sights lift, even on hoser targets.

As a frame of reference, with a 1.25 draw and reload, and 0.25 splits and transitions on an El Prez, you can get get the HF into 11's with a couple charlies. That's a solid El Prez. The threshold of GM is around 9.8.