[DrVlad]

Yesterday I helped a friend of mine pick out a new Glock, his first. The store had many choices, and he wanted 9mm, so I recommended a Gen3 G17 they had. However, he was enamored by the "deal of the day"--Gen 4 G17 with "free" 30 rounder.

Brought Gen 4 home and he was cycling it, sans magazine, to learn trigger feel etc. -- at this point unloaded(never been loaded), never taken down except by guys at the store. After 4-5 cycles, pistol ends up with slide in battery, but the smaller rod/spring of new style recoil recoil spring protruding about 1" forward!!---so he hands it to me.

Slide will not move. Trigger forward so can't take down. After a bit of inspection I decide to pull the trigger so I can hopefully disassemble at which time the whole slide flies forward off of the frame, surprising the hell out of me--but also sorta like something out of a comedy movie--and hits the table, tumbles off onto ground--wiped it down, reassembled, and cycled again--3-4 times--same thing happened--repeatedly!!!I disassemble /reassemble multiple times but with same result.

Also seems the L rear rail on slide got bent when slide hit the floor. :embarassed: I felt stupid, but I never expected gun to violently disassemble with a trigger pull. Never the less; pistol in my hand when happened so I felt I should make it right

Called Glock. They said, "Yeah, sometimes these new springs do that". What????:dunno:

So packed up and sent to Smyrna.

 

[yfdcap]

That's a new one. Would like to hear the out come on this.

 

[GlockFan7]

I'm confused. The slide was IN battery when you pulled the trigger? And the slide came off while it was still in battery?

 

[DrVlad]

Glockfan7: seemingly, yes. Slide was fully forward and basically locked into position. Although the barrel lug was mostly in position within the slide ejection port, it could have been slightly misaligned and I could have missed it. For the most part though, looked completely in battery and wouldn't budge

When slide flew off and hit the table, spring and slide separated. It seemed as if (possibly?) the spring was somehow slipping downward from it's contact against the barrel and pressing downward on the disassembly catch in the frame. In fact, I was able to replicate the problem, minus spring protrusion in my Gen3 G19: rack slide; do not pull trigger ; move slide slightly rearward to release pressure and pull down on slide disassembly--it moves about half way and stays there; then pull trigger - slide shoots off. Probably not good for the gun so only did it twice.

I t was a much more vigorous disassembly with the new Gen 4. Makes sense as spring protrusion would cause spring to be partially compresses----and more importantly, it occurred spontaneously!!!!repeatedly!!!

I got the idea that Glock tech thought assembly might be off. However I have been shooting/disassembling/assembling Glocks since Gen1. Considering what I thought above, I did make sure spring was well seated on barrel detent when reassembly each time. My suspicion is a faulty spring assembly.

I examined the spring assembly on my 42, the only gen4 recoil spring I own, and at no time does any spring portion protrude forward with the guide rod. When the 17 malfunctioned both the guide rod and spring protruded forward with gun in battery.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

This didn't happen unless a part was installed incorrectly, an incorrect part was installed, or a part was left out. Let us know what was jacked up if you find out. It was not "cause new springs do that sometimes". I sort of doubt Glock would mislead you to make you feel better, so I have some difficulty believing you were actually told that. Good job helping out your friend though!

Yesterday I helped a friend of mine pick out a new Glock, his first. The store had many choices, and he wanted 9mm, so I recommended a Gen3 G17 they had. However, he was enamored by the "deal of the day"--Gen 4 G17 with "free" 30 rounder.

Brought Gen 4 home and he was cycling it, sans magazine, to learn trigger feel etc. -- at this point unloaded(never been loaded), never taken down except by guys at the store. After 4-5 cycles, pistol ends up with slide in battery, but the smaller rod/spring of new style recoil recoil spring protruding about 1" forward!!---so he hands it to me.

Slide will not move. Trigger forward so can't take down. After a bit of inspection I decide to pull the trigger so I can hopefully disassemble at which time the whole slide flies forward off of the frame, surprising the hell out of me--but also sorta like something out of a comedy movie--and hits the table, tumbles off onto ground--wiped it down, reassembled, and cycled again--3-4 times--same thing happened--repeatedly!!!I disassemble /reassemble multiple times but with same result.

Also seems the L rear rail on slide got bent when slide hit the floor. :embarassed: I felt stupid, but I never expected gun to violently disassemble with a trigger pull. Never the less; pistol in my hand when happened so I felt I should make it right

Called Glock. They said, "Yeah, sometimes these new springs do that". What????:dunno:

So packed up and sent to Smyrna.

 

[JBP55]

In fact, I was able to replicate the problem, minus spring protrusion in my Gen3 G19: rack slide; do not pull trigger ; move slide slightly rearward to release pressure and pull down on slide disassembly--it moves about half way and stays there; then pull trigger - slide shoots off. Probably not good for the gun so only did it twice.

You can do this with any Glock.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

And JBP is right as usual. You describe normal takedown steps, just waiting to pull the trigger last. Is that what you are saying happened in your OP, the one where you say glock says it's a spring?.............

You can do this with any Glock.

 

[Mike-M]

...he was enamored by the "deal of the day"--Gen 4 G17 with "free" 30 rounder.

I am assuming that this was a used G17 Gen4. That sort of detail is useful.

Brought Gen 4 home and he was cycling it...After 4-5 cycles, pistol ends up with slide in battery, but the smaller rod/spring of new style recoil recoil spring protruding about 1" forward!

This was a problem with some early Gen4 G17s. Glock re-designed the recoil spring assembly (RSA) several times since. The current G17 RSA is marked 0-2-4 on the heel. It sounds to me like that Gen4 G17 was early and still had the original problematic RSA.

 

[grecco]

Its a common problem, sounds like the take down lever spring broke.
a very easy fix.

 

[quantico]

wow , that inspires confidence

 

[mtstream]

Sometimes the RSAs will pop out like that when reassembling. The instruction in armorer's class was to grasp it, pull it further out, turn 90 degrees and let it snap back in. I've never seen this work :faint: Including the couple of times it happened to students in the class.

After trying a couple of times, messing with the slide normally gets the slide off and the RSA returns to normal. Supposedly it happens from the rsa slipping off when resembling and getting compressed. If you rack the slide back, it looks just like that except the slide is forward.

I've never seen the slide fall off like that but I believe the OPs analysis of the rsa pushing the slide lock down is very likely correct. Unfortunately, slides can bend easier than expected when not on the frame.

 

[jedi573]

I've seen this when the rear of the RSA isn't properly placed on the feet (lug) of the barrel for reassembly. Make sure your guy is putting it in the right spot. (Department armorer.)

 

[JR]

The RSA issue sometimes happens. Use a stainless system and that can never happen again. Lone Wolf will have all Gen4 stainless RSA in another week http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=155992&CAT=83

Somebody at the gun shop took the gun apart and removed the slide lock lever (also incorrectly called take down lever). When they reassembled, they put the slide lock lever in backwards. This goof will allow you to shoot the slide off the frame with the single pull of the trigger. Remember..... the notch goes to the rear EVERY time!

If your slide rail was bent when the slide hit the floor you have a real problem. Yes you can bend it back but I guarantee it is going to eventually break. Take the gun back to the shop. Explain what happened. Maybe you guys can work something out regarding the purchase of a new slide?

 

[DrVlad]

Bill L: No, that's exactly what he said--not paraphrasing! Don't think he was misleading, just placating.

JBP55: I agree. Just felt stupid not knowing after all these years. But never purposely or accidentally disassembled that way before.

Mike : No, new G17 from the store. Wish I had spring to look at now to get markings from, but pistol is in transit.

Jedi: that's what I thought. After first time I dis/assembled 4 times, making sure spring assembly seated properly each time. Problem still recurred after racking about 4 cycles.

Undoubtedly guys at store took pistol apart during sales. What I find disconcerting is that this type of problem can occur with careless/quick reassembly. I tried to replicate in my Gen2/3 by reassembly with spring not fully seated--no problem with repeated cycling. (Wouldn't want to try with live rounds though). Seems a unique issue to new spring assembly.

 

[mtstream]

Guess we need to be a bit clearer - there's nothing wrong with the RSA when this happens! Granted I didn't see the OPs but I have seen what is described multiple times just as jedi573 said he has.

What is observed is a compressed RSA. Something is compressing it when the slide is in battery.

If you've never seen it, pull the slide to the rear and see how the RSA sticks out the front. Basically what it looks like except the slide is forward. It's not quite as extreme because the compression is less.

 

[DrVlad]

Yes, Mtstream is right. Looked just like spring/rod assembly when normally cycled-- except forward protrusion beyond front of slide was less pronounced--protruded about about 1"--and slide was forward on frame into battery. I don't know how the new RSA is put together, but seems almost only way it could occur is due to dysfunction of the RSA.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

Agreed sir.

Bill L: No, that's exactly what he said--not paraphrasing! Don't think he was misleading, just placating.

JBP55: I agree. Just felt stupid not knowing after all these years. But never purposely or accidentally disassembled that way before.

Mike : No, new G17 from the store. Wish I had spring to look at now to get markings from, but pistol is in transit.

Jedi: that's what I thought. After first time I dis/assembled 4 times, making sure spring assembly seated properly each time. Problem still recurred after racking about 4 cycles.

Undoubtedly guys at store took pistol apart during sales. What I find disconcerting is that this type of problem can occur with careless/quick reassembly. I tried to replicate in my Gen2/3 by reassembly with spring not fully seated--no problem with repeated cycling. (Wouldn't want to try with live rounds though). Seems a unique issue to new spring assembly.

 

[M4eagle]

Very puzzling.... This would be a major design flaw... Affecting countless Glocks .... There has got to be more to the story.



Sent from my iPad using Ohub Campfire

 

[JR]

It can happen to any Glock with a Slide Lock Lever (BTW: every one). Install the SLL backwards, rack the slide back and let it go forward into battery, pull the trigger and watch the slide depart from the frame.

 

[DrVlad]

Talked to Peter at glock yesterday.

JR: he said SLL was ok and not backwards.

He said if the RSA is not seated properly onto barrel detent, this can happen. Unfortunately because slide hit the ground and was damaged, I have to purchase new slide. To soften the blow, he did include free night sights.

However, I see it seems this is a design flaw specifically with gen4 RSA. I tried to replicate on my other Glocks(g1-g3) by assembling with RSA incompletely seated in barrel detent and no problem. Can't reassemble if RSA seated in barrel detent above (basically one step up on the barrel lug). Overall, this seems a problem with Gen 4 RSA only. Agreeably, reassembly is operator dependent, but considering it doesn't occur in previous constructions, this is a problem.

I already have a G42, but probably won't buy any more gen4.