[WayaX]

I like the 7.62x54 a lot, and most of the guns that use it are excellent. That said, it would not be my choice for match grade accuracy. The .308 wins that game hands down, both because of the availability of many match/sniper grade loads and due to the large selection of guns that can take advantage of the high quality ammo.

I tend to agree. 7.62x51 wins out for me due to selection (of both ammo and rifles), 7.62 Russian is a good round, and it's cheap, but your choice of weapons is limited.

 

[.45Super-Man]

The old rimmed round was accurate enough to force more than a few nazis into early retirement and the Finns used it against the russians in the winter war, against overwhelming odds. If you want proof of its effectiveness and capable accuracy, look no further.

 

[Frog1]

It's a great round due to the availabity of low cost surplus rifles. However, if you want to match the .308 in accuracy, you will have to spend at least as much on the quality of the rifle and to attain this in a semi auto configuration you can't match it. There is no semi auto in 7.62 x 54 as accurate as an AR-10, HK-91, M-14, or FAL. Simple enough.

 

[fnfalman]

FAL is anything but "accurate".

 

[m2hmghb]

Just to let you guys know the Russian's won Biathlon events with the 7.62x54R and a modified Mosin Nagant. Personally I'd look into a PSL first, get it worked on and accurized, and after that a VEPR.

 

[eyelikeglasses]

For a single rifle, go with .308, arming the inlaws, a few Mosin's, cheap 54r, and some cleaning kits.

7.62 x 39mm is roughly "equal" to the .30-.30:whistling:. I think it's a good lowest common denominator as far as performance, availability, power to weight ratio, etc. for me.:embarassed:

 

[WarEagle32]

Just about every 308 I've owned or shot was very accurate. I've shot 3 Mosins and they are the 3 worst high powered rifles that I have ever fired! If I was given one I'd sell it. Horrible Accuracy with the 7.62x54 and I can drive tacks with my AR 10, 700 remington and my Brothers M1A!

 

[RedHaze]

If you're considering the 7.62x54R. I highly suggest reading LG1's write-up on it!

Practical Prepardness - LG1's write up

 

[vrex]

Two of the best calibers of all time. Have both.

 

[.45Super-Man]

Simo Hayha wasnt using a.308(or a scope)and killed over 500 russians with his m28 mosin and suomi SMG, often engaging the enemy at 400 meters and beyond. He accomplished this in about 90 days and it happened long before the .308 even existed.

 

[esh325]

Simo Hayha wasnt using a.308(or a scope)and killed over 500 russians with his m28 mosin and suomi SMG, often engaging the enemy at 400 meters and beyond. He accomplished this in about 90 days and it happened long before the .308 even existed.

I don't really see any reason why he couldn't have done the same with a .308 rifle. The ballistics of both cartridges with standard military loadings are not very far off from each other.



I like eastern bloc firearms a lot, but the .308 is a better cartridge. It's not like a lot better, but it's better. It's rimless,a bit shorter, and is much more diverse in terms of ammo. There are also more choices in .308 firearms.

 

[Novocaine]

There are still match rifles built on old Mosin actions. Belarus does it at very least. The process starts with an athlete and his gunsmith going to the armory and test-firing hundreds of rifles to select a few for further work and eventually end up with one. It’s a tedious and time consuming process, most of the exceptional barreled actions have already been used to build snipers during the war.
Other than that, whatever import you’re getting it’s a crapshoot. Exception being real Soviet snipers (>$1K) and Finnish carbines.

Soviet designers hated the cartridge with passion since before the Finnish war: it made magazine fed designs total PITA and high RPM aviation MGs less efficient. After the war it gave designers headache whether developing magazine fed sniper rifles or even belt-fed GPMG. Also while newer more accurate loads were developed the military designs were limited to old standards to keep the trajectories compatible with sight settings on the pre-existing hardware. SVD is not as accurate as it could be for this reason, the twist rate is optimized for the old and armor piercing loads, not for the latest and greatest (of the day).

Given choices .308 gives I don’t see how this is even an issue.

 

[Frog1]

FAL is anything but "accurate".

I will agree when compared to the rifles I mentioned before it. But compared to any Semi-Auto in 7.62x54, a Fal is a major step up. An accurized Fal will shoot as well as an a std M-14.

The guy who has been watching the history channel needs to recognize that any high power rifle can hit a man sized targets at several hundred yards if the driver knows what he is doing. That doesn't place the cartridge at the top of the list for accuracy. I believe the 7.62 x 54R can be very accurate. The problem is that there are limited rifles to demonstrate that attribute.

The AR10 is the most accurate platform for any Semi-Auto in any caliber. It is that simple.

 

[m2hmghb]

I will agree when compared to the rifles I mentioned before it. But compared to any Semi-Auto in 7.62x54, a Fal is a major step up. An accurized Fal will shoot as well as an a std M-14.

The guy who has been watching the history channel needs to recognize that any high power rifle can hit a man sized targets at several hundred yards if the driver knows what he is doing. That doesn't place the cartridge at the top of the list for accuracy. I believe the 7.62 x 54R can be very accurate. The problem is that there are limited rifles to demonstrate that attribute.

The AR10 is the most accurate platform for any Semi-Auto in any caliber. It is that simple.

I think the PSG1 would give the AR10 a run for its money. Then there is the WA2000 rifle.

 

[crazymoose]

I think the PSG1 would give the AR10 a run for its money. Then there is the WA2000 rifle.

Absolutely they will, but the question is why bother? If you put enough work and money into it, you can accurize just about any firearm. Both the PSG1 and the Walther start at about $10,000 (and for the Walther, that was 1980's dollars; they now go for $40K-80K). One could easily buy a $1,200 AR-10, spend $800 on a match barrel and free-floating fore-ed, and have a rifle for two large that shoots as well as or better than the others. Alternately, one could just buy something like an OBR and call it a day.

 

[esh325]

There are still match rifles built on old Mosin actions. Belarus does it at very least. The process starts with an athlete and his gunsmith going to the armory and test-firing hundreds of rifles to select a few for further work and eventually end up with one. It’s a tedious and time consuming process, most of the exceptional barreled actions have already been used to build snipers during the war.
Other than that, whatever import you’re getting it’s a crapshoot. Exception being real Soviet snipers (>$1K) and Finnish carbines.

Soviet designers hated the cartridge with passion since before the Finnish war: it made magazine fed designs total PITA and high RPM aviation MGs less efficient. After the war it gave designers headache whether developing magazine fed sniper rifles or even belt-fed GPMG. Also while newer more accurate loads were developed the military designs were limited to old standards to keep the trajectories compatible with sight settings on the pre-existing hardware. SVD is not as accurate as it could be for this reason, the twist rate is optimized for the old and armor piercing loads, not for the latest and greatest (of the day).

Given choices .308 gives I don’t see how this is even an issue.

From what I understand, the Russians tried to replace the 54R for years with 6x49 rimless cartridge, but it compromised with the fall of the USSR. Perhaps they will try again in the future replacing the 54R

 

[valkyriemc]

Older thread but a good read. I have 3 mosins along with modern rifles. I chronoed a 91 30 with surplus ammo and 150 grain/149 grain factory load was running 2850. The one M44 I have has a bad bore from previous owner not properly cleaning the barrel. I cleaned it using a method of electrolosis. Terrible looking fluid came out of barrel. Haven't re shot it yet. Previous range time yielded pie plate accuracy at 100 yards.

 

[MajorD]

Mil surp ammo cheap won't be around forever then you will be forced to reload and try to find reloadable Russian caliber cases, outside of the drag no other semi auto rifles for it.
If you do not reload 308 is much more sensible. ( even if you do actually) not to mention the quality of mil surp ammo is a limiting factor in accuracy as much as the guns.
For more accurate the answer is 308 for sure

 

[valkyriemc]

[/IMG] I personally reload for several rifles and pistols, but not yet the Nagant. Here is a pic of what came out of the barrel, poured onto some rags on the floor of my garage. FWIW l like the .308 fine, but when I hunt I have a 300 wthby that is just dead nuts accurate to reach out and touch deer.