[pangloss9]

How durable is cerakote? Specifically, how does the breech face look about 10,000 rounds after coating? It seems to me that the breech face would be the most wear intensive part of the gun. Lastly, is cerakote recommended for application to the frame of the gun?

 

[Kahr_Glockman]

Cerakote should not be applied to the breech face as it builds up the surface. It has a thickness that will interfere with function.

During the prep phase the weapon has to be sand blasted in order for the cerakote to stick uniformly. Cerakote is very durable and very hard. Using it on frames is fine and it may actually smooth up the action. The sandblasting removes the extra thickness from the piece being coated.

The company I worked for avoided breech faces because of the blasting component. If you dont blast, Cerakote wont stick. If you do blast, the breech face, bolt lugs (on rifles), and extractors become comprimised and may not function. Aluminum pieces raise a whole other issue. The anodizing process goes to a certain depth and if you sand blast that away you can destroy the strucural integrity of the item.

If you are wanting to coat something call CCR Refinishing. They will be able to do the job.

 

[DRAGON1970]

Cerakote should not be applied to the breech face as it builds up the surface. It has a thickness that will interfere with function.

During the prep phase the weapon has to be sand blasted in order for the cerakote to stick uniformly. Cerakote is very durable and very hard. Using it on frames is fine and it may actually smooth up the action. The sandblasting removes the extra thickness from the piece being coated.

The company I worked for avoided breech faces because of the blasting component. If you dont blast, Cerakote wont stick. If you do blast, the breech face, bolt lugs (on rifles), and extractors become comprimised and may not function. Aluminum pieces raise a whole other issue. The anodizing process goes to a certain depth and if you sand blast that away you can destroy the strucural integrity of the item.



If you are wanting to coat something call CCR Refinishing. They will be able to do the job.

Sorry dude have to call B.S. on this one. I have use Cerakote for a couple years now. For myself and about thirty guys at the range. It can be applied anywhere....it will wear naturally. I do agree with the comment about aluminum though.

 

[Kahr_Glockman]

Call BS all you want but I have seen guns rendered inoperable because someone cut corners or applied cerakote where it wasn't supposed to be.

 

[C.C.Z.]

I apply Cerakote on a daily basis.

I can't say how many guns I've coated in Cerakote, but we will say its ALOT :wow:. As you can see from my website, I am very knowledgeable when it comes to Cerakote.

I won't say that you can't coat the breech face. I coat the breech face on every gun that comes through my shop. Now areas of extreme tolerance ( say pin holes ) are still lightly coated if we coat them. There are some areas that we do remove the coating afterwards just to ensure proper out of the box functioning for the customer. Some guns are tighter then others, so some require different areas not to be coated or to be coated lightly. I haven't run across a handgun yet that we couldn't coat the breech face on.

Cerakote in most applications runs .0005-.001 of an inch thick. So your talking the inability to measure that level with your eye. A normal piece of paper is .011 thick. So imagine slicing a piece of paper 11 times to get .001 thick.

Here are some graphs and information about Cerakote.

( I quoted this right off another forum I just responded to a question on Cerakote ).


I am also another Cerakote based company.

I use Cerakote on almost every gun I refinish, unless I am Nickel Cobalt plating it. The reason I use NIC industries Cerakote is because it is professionally made in a professional atmosphere in chemical laboratories by trained chemical engineers.

NIC industries supplies more major manufacturer's around the world with its coatings.

Companies like Sig , Kimber, Nighthawk Customs, Smith and Wesson are some of the companies in the gun world that use their products.

I ll post some pictures later today of a 4000 round NEVER Lubed, never greased and cleaned ONLY 1 time since its coating years ago, P226. I use it as a display to show others about Cerakote. It does show some wear, but for the amount of use it has seen , it looks AWESOME.

[color:RED] If you want also I have torture tests of my own with torches, acid, paint strippers, steel wool, machine cutting etc in videos on my website through youtube. [/color]
Here are some quick facts about Cerakote.

Picture 1, Corrosive – Testing is according to ASTM B117 (5% Salt Spray, 90F Temp) Picture was taken at 385 hours showing Cerakote compared to KG Gunkote (competitor 1) and Duracoat (competitor 2). Picture shows both KG and Duracoat failing at 385 hours. Cerakote passed the 3000 hour mark without failure.

Picture 2, Flexibility (Mandrel Bend ASTM D522) and Durability (Impact ASTM D2794). Picture shows that while Cerakote is the hardest coating available (9h pencil) for a firearm, it is also the most flexible. Testing shows that Cerakote can withstand a 32% elongation without cracking, distortion or coating loss. Durability picture shows a 160lb impact without any coating loss. No other coating can match the hardness and flexibility of Cerakote.

Picture 3, Taber Abrasion Testing (ASTM D4060). Taber Abrasion testing is performed by loading an abrasive pin with weight (1000gram in this case) and rotating the pin in a circular motion over a coated surface. This test shows how wear or abrasion resistant a coating is. Once the pin breaks through the coating to the metal, the test stops. In this test, KG failed at 500 cycles, Dura Coat failed at 600 cycles and Cerakote failed at 8000 cycles. This test is a true representation of just how durable Cerakote is when compared to the competition. No other coating can provide this level of wear protection on a firearm.

 

[Kahr_Glockman]

Thanks for the info. The company that I worked for did sniper rifles and would not coat bolt lugs or bolt faces. Again for the reasons that I stated. And again I saw guns that would not lock up. Very specifically a P226 and a 239 that got coated. The coating had to be sanded back down to get the guns to lock up.

 

[Kahr_Glockman]

BTW I do have to add that Cerakote is probably one of the best aftermarket coatings on the market and would not hesitate to have a gun coated. It is durable and I saw a sniper rifle drug UP a flight of stairs that the coating was not damaged.

 

[C.C.Z.]

I agree I tried using everything available as a coating and ended up with Cerakote holding up the best.

 

[Jim Watson]

If you are wanting to coat something call CCR Refinishing. They will be able to do the job.

Is CCR's Cera Hide the same product as Cerakote just under their brand name, or is it Something Else?

 

[ccr]

CCR offers Premier Finishes for Firearms. Cera-Plate and Cera-Hide

Cera-Hide is a proprietary finish formulated by CCR just for firearms. It is unlike those DIY products such as Duracoat and Cerakote that don't hold up to my standards of durability.

Cera-Hide is a thermally cured applied coating that has a nano ceramic infused matrix. It offers untold rust and corrosion protection along with being a self lubricating finish. It can be applied to all steels and alloys.

We also Mil spec Parkerize all carbon steel parts which provides an extra level of rust protection

Cera-Hide is available in Matte Black, House Black (a deep rich med luster) Stainless look, BTM ( similar to brushed nickel) OD Green,Dark Earth and our NEW Tri-Tanium color. Other colors maybe done on request

This is the House Black Cera-Hide

 

[C.C.Z.]

Talking with NIC industries makers of Cerakote recently, I was surprised to see that there are more major manufacturers using Cerakote as a factory finish then any other coating on the market.

I believe that says something about the durability of Cerakote and its company.

Colt, Sig, Kimber, Nighthawk Customs, Fusion, Benchmade, Smith and Wesson and the list goes on and on. Not to mention used by more military agency's as well.

Just a little FYI for those that like to have that kind of information.

 

[nnickatnight]

How does it compare to Robar's finishes?

 

[Obi Wan]

Here are some quick facts about Cerakote.

Picture 1, Corrosive – Testing is according to ASTM B117 (5% Salt Spray, 90F Temp) Picture was taken at 385 hours showing Cerakote compared to KG Gunkote (competitor 1) and Duracoat (competitor 2). Picture shows both KG and Duracoat failing at 385 hours. Cerakote passed the 3000 hour mark without failure.

Picture 2, Flexibility (Mandrel Bend ASTM D522) and Durability (Impact ASTM D2794). Picture shows that while Cerakote is the hardest coating available (9h pencil) for a firearm, it is also the most flexible. Testing shows that Cerakote can withstand a 32% elongation without cracking, distortion or coating loss. Durability picture shows a 160lb impact without any coating loss. No other coating can match the hardness and flexibility of Cerakote.

Picture 3, Taber Abrasion Testing (ASTM D4060). Taber Abrasion testing is performed by loading an abrasive pin with weight (1000gram in this case) and rotating the pin in a circular motion over a coated surface. This test shows how wear or abrasion resistant a coating is. Once the pin breaks through the coating to the metal, the test stops. In this test, KG failed at 500 cycles, Dura Coat failed at 600 cycles and Cerakote failed at 8000 cycles. This test is a true representation of just how durable Cerakote is when compared to the competition. No other coating can provide this level of wear protection on a firearm.

[/b]

CCR offers Premier Finishes for Firearms. Cera-Plate and Cera-Hide

Cera-Hide is a proprietary finish formulated by CCR just for firearms. It is unlike those DIY products such as Duracoat and Cerakote that don't hold up to my standards of durability.

Cera-Hide is a thermally cured applied coating that has a nano ceramic infused matrix. It offers untold rust and corrosion protection along with being a self lubricating finish. It can be applied to all steels and alloys.

We also Mil spec Parkerize all carbon steel parts which provides an extra level of rust protection

Please explain how your product, 'Cera-Hide' compares to the results detailed above for 'Cerakote'.

Also, if 'Cera-Hide' offers "untold rust and corrosion protection", why bother Parkerizing to provide "an extra level of rust protection"? What am I misunderstanding here?

Thanks!

 

[oregonshooter]

Please explain how your product, 'Cera-Hide' compares to the results detailed above for 'Cerakote'.

Also, if 'Cera-Hide' offers "untold rust and corrosion protection", why bother Parkerizing to provide "an extra level of rust protection"? What am I misunderstanding here?

Thanks!

Don't hold your breath on that answer. I asked the same thing on sigforum.com
and was crucified like I was asking the Pope where his authority comes from.

One thing I did learn from CCR is that parking the parts first will cover bare metal that has been blasted off for prepping to use (cerakote, in my case) paints that must be sprayed on and won't reach small/hard to reach areas that are now bare metal.

It also provide a great "primer" for the product to stick to. I'm going to start offering zinc parking as an option myself and recommend the practice.

 

[C.C.Z.]

I apply Cerakote on a daily basis.

I can't say how many guns I've coated in Cerakote, but we will say its ALOT :wow:. As you can see from my website, I am very knowledgeable when it comes to Cerakote.

I won't say that you can't coat the breech face. I coat the breech face on every gun that comes through my shop. Now areas of extreme tolerance ( say pin holes ) are still lightly coated if we coat them. There are some areas that we do remove the coating afterwards just to ensure proper out of the box functioning for the customer. Some guns are tighter then others, so some require different areas not to be coated or to be coated lightly. I haven't run across a handgun yet that we couldn't coat the breech face on.

Cerakote in most applications runs .0005-.001 of an inch thick. So your talking the inability to measure that level with your eye. A normal piece of paper is .011 thick. So imagine slicing a piece of paper 11 times to get .001 thick.

Here are some graphs and information about Cerakote.

( I quoted this right off another forum I just responded to a question on Cerakote ).


I am also another Cerakote based company.

I use Cerakote on almost every gun I refinish, unless I am Nickel Cobalt plating it. The reason I use NIC industries Cerakote is because it is professionally made in a professional atmosphere in chemical laboratories by trained chemical engineers.

NIC industries supplies more major manufacturer's around the world with its coatings.

Companies like Sig , Kimber, Nighthawk Customs, Smith and Wesson are some of the companies in the gun world that use their products.

I ll post some pictures later today of a 4000 round NEVER Lubed, never greased and cleaned ONLY 1 time since its coating years ago, P226. I use it as a display to show others about Cerakote. It does show some wear, but for the amount of use it has seen , it looks AWESOME.

[color:RED] If you want also I have torture tests of my own with torches, acid, paint strippers, steel wool, machine cutting etc in videos on my website through youtube. [/color]
Here are some quick facts about Cerakote.

Picture 1, Corrosive – Testing is according to ASTM B117 (5% Salt Spray, 90F Temp) Picture was taken at 385 hours showing Cerakote compared to KG Gunkote (competitor 1) and Duracoat (competitor 2). Picture shows both KG and Duracoat failing at 385 hours. Cerakote passed the 3000 hour mark without failure.

Picture 2, Flexibility (Mandrel Bend ASTM D522) and Durability (Impact ASTM D2794). Picture shows that while Cerakote is the hardest coating available (9h pencil) for a firearm, it is also the most flexible. Testing shows that Cerakote can withstand a 32% elongation without cracking, distortion or coating loss. Durability picture shows a 160lb impact without any coating loss. No other coating can match the hardness and flexibility of Cerakote.

Picture 3, Taber Abrasion Testing (ASTM D4060). Taber Abrasion testing is performed by loading an abrasive pin with weight (1000gram in this case) and rotating the pin in a circular motion over a coated surface. This test shows how wear or abrasion resistant a coating is. Once the pin breaks through the coating to the metal, the test stops. In this test, KG failed at 500 cycles, Dura Coat failed at 600 cycles and Cerakote failed at 8000 cycles. This test is a true representation of just how durable Cerakote is when compared to the competition. No other coating can provide this level of wear protection on a firearm.

Originally Posted by Obi Wan
Please explain how your product, 'Cera-Hide' compares to the results detailed above for 'Cerakote'.

Also, if 'Cera-Hide' offers "untold rust and corrosion protection", why bother Parkerizing to provide "an extra level of rust protection"? What am I misunderstanding here?

Thanks!

I can't answer the testing question you have because obviously I use Cerakote and I have never seen any actual tests on Cerahide. But I just got a little more information about the actual testing of Cerakote, Gun Kote and Duracoat directly from NIC industries that you might like to see.

This is an email from NIC industries in relation to what Jim ( Oregon Shooter ) mentioned above about a post from Sig Forum. This was sent to both CCR and Customized Creationz ( myself ) in reference to the Sig Forum post and the emails both companies ( CCR and Customized Creationz ) sent to NIC industries about the test results.

It lists the actual lab everything was tested at, so you can see its not NIC's lab, but an independent third party lab.

Anyways.... here is the email with information.




: Brandon Grady <brandon@nicindustries.com>


To: service@ccrrefinishing.com
Cc: guns@customizedcreationz.com
Date: Friday, August 06, 2010 10:55 am
Subject: Cerakote Test Response
Attachments:
Text version of this message. (2KB)

Mary and Todd,

Since both of your requests were pertaining to the same forum question, I am sending the same information to both CC and CCR in the interest of fairness.

Below is a summary of the test results which were performed by Anachem Laboratories, Inc., El Segundo, CA. Information on their test capabilities can be found on their website at http://www.anachemlabs.com/services.htm. For this study, the performance properties of CerakoteTM H-146 Graphite Black were compared to the products of two firearm coatings competitors, denoted as C1(KG GunKote) and C2 (Dura Coat). While NIC did pay for the testing, the test was performed blind and all panels were marked with an alias, i.e. C1, C2 and C3 to prevent any bias. Taber abrasion testing was performed to compare the wear resistance of H-146 Graphite Black to products C1 (KG GunKote) and C2 (Dura Coat). This testing was performed in accordance with ASTM Standard D4060. Each coating was applied to a set of steel panels according to the manufacturers&#8217; instructions. A CS-17 taber abrasion wheel with a 1000 g weight was used for the abrasion testing. The abrasion wheel was rotated at a constant speed and the coating loss for each product was calculated. These results were used to determine the wear cycles per mil, which is an indicator of the rate of coating thickness loss. CerakoteTM H-146 required 5212 cycles to remove 1 mil of coating whereas the wear cycles per mil for C1 (KG GunKote) and C2 (Dura Coat) were 597 and 418, respectively. These results are illustrated in the table below. This study shows that CerakoteTM is up to 12 times more wear resistant than competitive coatings.





Specification


CerakoteTM


C1(KG GunKote)


C2 (Dura Coat)

Taber Abrasion Testing(ASTM D4060)


Wear cycles per mil:: 5212


Wear cycles per mil:

597


Wear cycles per mil:

418


A copy of NIC&#8217;s full ASTM test report can be found on our website at


http://www.nicindustries.com/i...chnical%20report.pdf

NIC stands behind the accuracy and integrity of any test data that is published on our website. If you have any further questions, please don&#8217;t hesitate to contact me.

MORE MANUFACTURERS CHOOSE CERAKOTE THAN ANY OTHER FINISH!

Brandon Grady

Cerakote Division Manager

NIC Industries, Inc.

7050 Sixth Street

White City, OR 97503

541-826-1922

www.nicindustries.com

 

[C.C.Z.]

4000 rounds my friends of NO LUBE OR GREASE.....:wow::wow::wow:

 

[C.C.Z.]

2-3 years of wear in a machine shop environment , OWB holster , banged in machines, grime and grit from media finishing and more....:wow:

[/b]

 

[pangloss9]

Thanks to everyone for the info. This thread has been very informative. The abrasion and corrosion resistance data/photos for Cerakote are very convincing.

 

[Obi Wan]

Thanks to everyone for the info. This thread has been very informative. The abrasion and corrosion resistance data/photos for Cerakote are very convincing.

No question about it, especially since 'ccr' won't answer questions about his claims for 'Cera-Hide'.

As soon as I can afford to do it, I'll be sending a couple of slides (at least) to g29cc for 'Cerakote' finishes.

 

[C.C.Z.]

I have some more testing videos coming soon on the website !