I took my CCW class in OH on Sat. I was a bit dissappointed with the instructor. He spent tons of time on VERY basic stuff like identifying the muzzle of the gun. But, he didn't spend much time at all on what situations you can legally shoot and what you should do afterward. It made for a pretty boring day in which I didn't learn much of anything. I guess it made sure anybody that took the class knew the basics of handguns but it didn't seem very beneficial to somebody that is already decently knowledgeable.
Boring CCW Class!!
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timbo813
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I took my CCW class in OH on Sat. I was a bit dissappointed with the instructor. He spent tons of time on VERY basic stuff like identifying the muzzle of the gun. But, he didn't spend much time at all on what situations you can legally shoot and what you should do afterward. It made for a pretty boring day in which I didn't learn much of anything. I guess it made sure anybody that took the class knew the basics of handguns but it didn't seem very beneficial to somebody that is already decently knowledgeable.
An instructor is just really a teacher. He has to teach the class as if no one knows anything about anything. He isn't there to give legal advice, nor would I want him to since he isn't a lawyer. All CCW classes are for is just the basics. If one wants to learn more, and they should indeed do that, there are many such places to do it. You may want to look into that.
If one is serious about what they can and can't do with a concealed weapon, I would suggest they actually read the law in their area.
If one is serious about what they can and can't do with a concealed weapon, I would suggest they actually read the law in their area.
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Ours was the same way, a Captain of the Sheriff's office taught it. When asked about different situations his answer was always that we had the same rights as an LEO when it came to firing our gun, we HAD to be in fear of our life or the life of an Innocent 3rd party. This applies to VA, other states like TX will have different answers as to when you can shoot someone.
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I "audited" a class in Florida where the instructor had a bad cold, and had lost his voice. The entire class consisted of him playing a video on the difference between a pistol and a revolver, and how to operate each.
The saving grace was, he had police personnel there to do fingerprinting, a poloroid camera to take passport photos, an assistant to help fill out the applications, and a notary to notarize your signature. All you needed was a stamp to send the envelope.
The saving grace was, he had police personnel there to do fingerprinting, a poloroid camera to take passport photos, an assistant to help fill out the applications, and a notary to notarize your signature. All you needed was a stamp to send the envelope.
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I am planning on getting one of Massad Ayoob's books on the subject. It's called In the gravest extreme. It's old and not a book on specific laws but I've heard it gives a good foundation on the use of lethal force.
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Might I suggest that instead you contact your local PD and request a copy of their use of force policy.
The CCW class I took about 3 years ago actually had a dedicated hour or two for questions with a lawyer. They actually brought in the lawyer that wrote the law for Missouri. It was pretty good. They went through a lot of "what if" type questions. I would suggest discussing your questions in this forum as they have probally been asked / answered before and might be a good refresher for a lot of people.
Depending on your state/municipality requirements for a class, you might find it incredibly boring, or overwhelming.
Florida has no requirements for live fire, nor does much of NY state (by county, not by population).
Timbo, what are the course requirements for OH?
'Drew
Florida has no requirements for live fire, nor does much of NY state (by county, not by population).
Timbo, what are the course requirements for OH?
'Drew
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1,365 Posts
Generally very basic, as it should be. Any ccw instructor intentionally equating LE and ccw use of/conduct with a firearm needs to turn his cert in.
Certainly a MUST-READ for ANYONE who is considering carrying a handgun and/or using ANY weapon for personal defense!
I've had the pleasure of taking 2 of Mas' Combat Handgun courses. One would be hard-pressed to find more comprehensive and thorough instruction. The last course I took was in 1999; it's nothing short of amazing to find myself routinely using this knowledge on a daily basis when I carry and practice at the range.....
(FYI....Not sure what, if any, connection Mr. Ayoob stil has with LFI (Lethal Force Institute)....but he has started the Massad Ayoob Group:
www.massadayoobgroup.com
Lots of good info here.....worth a "tour"....)
Good Luck!
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1,691 Posts
I took the NRA Basic Pistol course (was brand spanking new to gguns), then a 3 hour CCW law class, offered by my range.
VERY informative, and I will attend the law portion again, just for grins (and to help check ppl in, since I'm on the board now), next time it's offered).
VERY informative, and I will attend the law portion again, just for grins (and to help check ppl in, since I'm on the board now), next time it's offered).
I instruct ccw in AZ and we have a standardized lesson guide we must instruct from. We are specifically told that we must gear the class for the lowest common denominator of skill set. For example if we have a class filled with ex seals and delta force operators and one great grandma who has never touched, much less fired, a pistol, we must give the class at her level. One training org strives to route the newbies -- after the completion of the ccw -- to the NRA basic pistol and firearms safety courses. We are allowed latitude on teaching techniques, use of props, visual aids, and are encouraged to interact with the students posing "what if..." & q&a, in other words not being boring but making sure the class understands the laws and very basic firearm safety. storage, cleaning and care of firearms and shooting skills, and can pass the test and qualify at the range. We can go beyond this, but it must be outside of the 8 hours of course time.
Reading the legal statutes is a good idea, but you need to keep up with the case law that develops from these statutes. Ayoob is a good source as well as Alan Corwin, and we should all sharpen our skills by attending one of the tactical shooting courses.
Reading the legal statutes is a good idea, but you need to keep up with the case law that develops from these statutes. Ayoob is a good source as well as Alan Corwin, and we should all sharpen our skills by attending one of the tactical shooting courses.
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Most CCW classes are like what you describe & IF they have a qualification shoot for score, it's pretty anemic. Even w/ that, I am amazed how many people get their CCW & most have no idea what they are doing legally or as to how to use their gun in SD.
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I had a similar experience. I was disappointed we didn't go more into the legal aspects of CCW.
I realize there were a lot of newbies in the class with little or no experience with firearms of any kind. So I can see an introduction to "this is the muzzle, this is the trigger", etc. For people like me, who've been around guns for 25 years, it was boring but a necessary part of the class.
But I would have liked to see a lot more about CCW scenarios, hypothetical and real situations and so on. But we ran out of time. :whistling:
come take a missouri class! they are required to be 8 hours long (sucks i know) but because of that you will usually get a LOT more stuff in it. shoot, my class even had one of the attorneys that helped write Mo's CCW law come for the legal part of the class. i learned a TON.
I'll give you an instructors point of view.
Out of a class of 20, 15 have never shot their gun before. Most won't even know whether it's a revolver or a pistol.
They bought it and stuck it in their nightstand and now they want a permit to "carry it in their car".
My primary goal is to teach them how to safely load/unload and handle their firearm.
I might even have time to help them get on paper at 3 yards.
The majority of students who take a CCW class don't follow through and get their permit. Of those who do get a permit, 99% will never actually carry their gun on a regular basis. My time is better utilized helping my students become safe, responsible gun owners. The motivated students who actually plan on carrying, they are usually motivated enough to seek out additional training to fill in the gaps.
I cannot go into specifics when it comes to legal issues. I'm not a lawyer. My $2 million insurance policy does not cover me when I instruct outside my qualifications.
We can go straight down the NRA "Personal Protection Outside the Home" curriculum if you'd like, but it doesn't get into specifics either (for liability).
We can read the relevant statutes together, but I'm not going to discuss them in anything but generalities.
If I bring an attorney into the class, rarely will they speak in specifics. There is just too much liability involved.
Out of a class of 20, 15 have never shot their gun before. Most won't even know whether it's a revolver or a pistol.
They bought it and stuck it in their nightstand and now they want a permit to "carry it in their car".
My primary goal is to teach them how to safely load/unload and handle their firearm.
I might even have time to help them get on paper at 3 yards.
The majority of students who take a CCW class don't follow through and get their permit. Of those who do get a permit, 99% will never actually carry their gun on a regular basis. My time is better utilized helping my students become safe, responsible gun owners. The motivated students who actually plan on carrying, they are usually motivated enough to seek out additional training to fill in the gaps.
I cannot go into specifics when it comes to legal issues. I'm not a lawyer. My $2 million insurance policy does not cover me when I instruct outside my qualifications.
We can go straight down the NRA "Personal Protection Outside the Home" curriculum if you'd like, but it doesn't get into specifics either (for liability).
We can read the relevant statutes together, but I'm not going to discuss them in anything but generalities.
If I bring an attorney into the class, rarely will they speak in specifics. There is just too much liability involved.
I teach the classes in ohio too, and have never and anyone not like it. I teach/give you more than you need. I've had a few people from here take it, for anyone that is looking to take the class I will give your money back if don't like the class.
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8,711 Posts
FL does have a requirement for live fire but it is a joke.
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/eligible.html
You must be able to demonstrate competency with a firearm.
If an NRA Instructor certifies you fired one round into the berm safely your good.
I never took the class. Prior Military service satisfies the requirement in FL.
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